BMWhere?

... not to mention GM crop rules, food standards etc. all of which will have to be relaxed if we want a US trade deal!

There are lots of benefits of Brexit to large corporations and the super rich elite (you know, people like Boris Johnson, Jacob Reece Mogg, Nigel Farage etc.), most of which come at the expense of the average British worker and their living and working rights.

Brexit will certainly be good for a select few in the UK who only really care about their own wealth and power and don't give a $h1t who they hurt or what they destroy on their way to the top! Brexit will increase the divide between the rich and the poor.

These elitists have long dreamed of fully capitalist UK similar to the US and see the EU as the big restriction that forces capitalist unfriendly socialist policies such as workers rights, health care and industry regulation.

In the US, nobody has a statutory entitlement to paid holiday(vacation)
from here:

The UK on the other hand currently guarantees 28 days of holiday (including bank holidays).

Another big risk is the ability to sack employees for no reason. In the UK, you'll get a good redundancy packet if a company wants to lay off staff, while the US you'll usually get nothing.

These are the sorts of rights that benefit businesses enormously at the expense of their employees and they the same rights that are protected in the UK thanks to European law. You can rest assured, post Brexit, big business leaders will be lobbying the government to reduce these rights and they current government will certainly be listening!

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

EU bullying while the UK seeks a compromise.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42027859

mrtheedge2u2

Not bullying at all....They have made it clear for almost a year now that the Irish border issue and "divorce bill" has to be sorted (or at least some long way sorted) before they can move to the next stage of talks.

UK have done pretty much nothing regarding this.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

A week ago Barnier said the UK had 2 weeks to cough up. Now a week later Tusk says we have 2 weeks. Will Juncker next week say we have 2 weeks?
Merkyl?
Macron?

Martin2005

Which begs the question, why did the UK agree to this ridiculous negotiation framework?

andy97

iTrader: (1)

​​​​​​What they publicly agree to and privately devised strategy is completely different. I now suspect the various factions demanding this that and the other will lead ultimately lead to a no deal in March 19

hodgy0_2

Err you mean the famous "row of the summer" that Davis was going to have, that lasted as long as "do you take milk in your coffee" - he capitulated before he sat down

The problem the UK have is a pretty simple one, and understandable to a certain degree (on the basis you have zero understanding of the EU position and you own negotiating strengths)

It is simply this...

The financial settlement conveys no obligation from the EU, it buys us nothing, nada, zilch -


It is basically a settlement of past commitments (and future obligations such as pensions - that even fatrage says we should honour)

The EU knew the UK would try and tie in the financial commitment to the eventual settlement, that's why they sequenced it like they did

And events have proved them right

But the UK wants (as I said understandable in a way) to know what it gets for the money

The problem is the UK negotiating position is weak to non-existent

The only thing it could ever have bought is goodwill, but that has long been squandered

David Davis made a speech yesterday to German businessmen, and they laughed at him, openly

He is seen as a joke on the Continent- they still can't get their heads around the fact that the UK STILL thinks it can have "their cake and eat it"

As I said months ago - it will be CETA or CETA+, both significantly worse than we have

The problem is Brexiteers have not come to terms with the simple fact that a "no deal" is not simply a return to the "status quo" hence a " worse deal" is de facto "worse", "no deal" is a reversion to a trading status that no country bar North Korea trades under

We already have the status quo, but that goes in 16 months

No deal is potentially catastrophic (as Aston Martin attest, it means they WILL have to stop their car production)

That why you will see the UK acquiesce, we have no choice, bar the bravado from Brexit jihadists

The only true sticking point is NI, because in reality the ONLY solution is a border at the Irish Sea

Mr Fuji

AS you know, I am firmly in the remain camp, but I am not clear on why Aston Martin have such an issue and the other manufacturers do not?

I would have thought it was a fairly simple thing to agree type approval for the EU for their vehicles? It's not as if that type approval will change in March 2019, nor will their cars.

What am I missing?

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Project fear, they don't like change.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

The EU are scared. They are acting like bully boys to prove a point to other EU nations.

A secondary effect may have Merkel with her own problems on immigration, the old coalition partners turning there backs on her and general malaise after so long in power which could result in snap elections.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

The EU's behavior to the UK is akin to Neil's letter to his bank manager, ergo:

'Darling Fascist Bullyboy

Give me some more money, you b*****d...'

The difference being, it's the EU who is the fascist bullyboy... Quite literally.

Martin2005

AKA, one side has nearly all the negotiation power; 'oh why didn't anyone tell us that before the referendum'. ''Why did they tell us it would all be easy as we'd be negotiating with VW and BMW'?

We're the ones that stuck 2 fingers up, not them. We're the mugs who swollowed all BS about how easy all this was going to be.
Meanwhile the half of the country that didn't vote for this madness are told to 'deal with it'. Well it's a very small crumb of comfort that the other half of the country are now having to 'deal with' the reality of the situation. I just wish there was a way of making the 'leavers' pay the £40bn+ we're going to have to cough up.
BTW calling the EU fascists, shows that you're not 'dealing with it' very maturely.
You might also want to reflect on the performance of the clueless morons we have running the negotiations on our behalf.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

#reelemin

Dingdongler

Since you mentioned Merkel and immigration....she's let in circa 1 million unvetted refugees in from Syria, Afghanistan, Albania etc. I'm assuming had we stayed in the EU any of them could have come over here?

BMWhere?

Nope, they only have permission to stay in Germany, so they can't travel to any other EU country while their asylum application is processed. If they are granted asylum, then can apply for a travel visas - for Schengen countries, they need to apply for a Schengen area visa, for any non Schengen EU countries (UK), they need to apply for a visa from that country.

Of course not all applications are successful and many are being sent home.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN15Y0IQ

Those who get asylum and remain for 7 years, could apply for German citizenship which also may not always be successful as they have to pass the various parts of the German citizenship test. If they successfully gain German citizenship, then they could legally travel to the UK as German citizens, whether the UK is in the EU or not - unless we intent to introduce a visa requirement for EU citizens travelling to the UK post Brexit which is highly unlikely!

So the typical Daily-Mail fear-mongering about all those immigrants coming to the UK is completely unfounded. In theory, they could travel illegally to other Schengen countries due to lack of border controls, but as the UK still has border controls, they couldn't enter the UK without evading the border controls e.g. in the back of a truck!

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

They're not unvetted either, far from it. They're housed in reception centres with severe movement restrictions whilst their status and credentials are thoroughly checked. If they are successful in being granted refugee status (not guaranteed at all), their movement is often restricted to a single state in Germany.
Here's a run down of German refugee law:
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/refugee-law/germany.php

Dingdongler

Thats reassuring to know. However I'm not convinced by this so called vetting procedure. How can somebody who turns up as a refugee have their 'credentials thoroughly checked'?

How do you check the credentials of somebody who has just fled a country in the middle of a civil war?

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

The screening process is detailed here: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/refugee....php#Screening

Dingdongler

That is a very loose screening procedure.

1) Only those over 14 will be screened. What do you think every person under about thr age of 20 says is their age?
I've seen that done many times in this country.

2) What if they say they aren't in possession of a passport? Is that an automatic refusal then?

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

Tbh, I don't have an opinion either way on Germany's screening procedure for refugees. It is what it is. Whether it's fit for purpose or not I have no idea.

hodgy0_2

Watch the video link I provided

The head of the SMMT says the same thing as does the representative from Vauxhall

Trade bodies across all industries have been saying these things in private but I suspect are afraid of going public for fear of being labelled "traitors"

And individual companies do not want to give competitors an advantage by showing their hand

Mr Fuji

I see two kicks in the teeth in the past few days, one from our friends the Australians, and now from the Irish.

And it was going to be so easy. It's almost as if the Leave campaign hadn't thought it through.........

dpb

Amazing , so it looks like we'll start saving some cash in about 5 years time , about half the time we'll take to get trade back on track


still we'll be free those blasted freeloading migrants eh

hodgy0_2

lol, we won't be saving much cash (but will be losing access to the SM)

take the EMA - that licences drug and medicines across the EU

we have lost that, along with the 900 highly paid jobs, and the 39000 visitors it support

we will have to pay for the relocation costs

suffer a probable reduction in Pharma investment -

okay so far so pointless

but the real laugh is when Brexidiots realise we will have to build our own medical agency to do the job the EMU did - at UK taxpayers expense

and then pay the EU EMA to licence the product for sale in the rest of the EU anyway

mrtheedge2u2

The UK already have their own medicines agency. It is called the MHRA. Problem with this is that they will not have the manpower to handle the workload required in divesting the UK from the all the European licenses and procedures.

You can obtain a marketing authorisation through 3 routes:
1) centralised procedure run by the EMA
2) mutual recognition procedure where one EU country runs the assessment on behalf of many countries
3) national procedure

The problem is that no one knows at the EMA or any of the national authorities how the UK will handle the splitting of the licenses to remove the UK.

hodgy0_2

yes, you are absolutely right - my error

we do have a similar body - but will require an increase in manpower

I was actually having dinner in London with a friend who is one of the UK's top lawyers in the Pharma and Biotech industries and he put me straight

I actually came on to post exactly that

but your number 3 route will only be allowed because of the mutual recognition agreements between the EU countries, so when we leave the EU our MHRA will not be able to licence medicines for the EU, in the same way the FDA will not be able to licence US medicines for the EU (or for that matter, the UK)

the point is that this is one example - the same mutual recognition structure works along every single area of the UK economy, from Automotive, Farming to Aircraft manufacturer,

when we leave, the UK will have to take on the regulatory responsibility - but still seek approval from the EU to sell goods to the EU

in a way it is easier to think of the EU in classic IT architecture terms.

The EU provide the shared backend that underpins the front end - most consumers and business simply interface with the "front end" - you buy a medicine from the Pharmacy or indeed a Car, you don't really care or actually need to know what process it has gone to be approved so that it can be sold

and as with a IT shared services model - it make sense on a number of levels, more efficient, repeatable etc

but on the 29th of March 2019 - the EU (quite rightly) will simply pull the cable out of the switch that connects us to all these backend service

as with an IT scenario, when the backend goes down - it is often not immediately apparent and the website/application may give the illusion of working

it is only when you try a and do something within the "application" - like new type approval for a car, or Medicine, negotiation of airport landing slots, making sure a replacement part for an airplane has the right regulatory approval etc etc - the errors start appearing

so the upshot is that the UK needs to build a whole new regulatory backend (some from scratch, some adapt what we have - i.e. the MHRA) - to support the economy, and also make sure the interfaces to the EU's backend are working (technically and metaphorically)

mrtheedge2u2

The British government and the DUP.......what a match made in heaven...

David Lock

Paddies save the day - WELL DONE lads


dl

Mr Fuji

Ok, countdown to the next election begins!

BMWhere?

Strong and Stable!