Jonnys3

Here's some positivism:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/489498...-after-brexit/

And the report referenced in the above link:

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.c...t-14.11.17.pdf

neil-h

So a Pro-Brexit group says it'll be awsome... There's a shocker

trails

iTrader: (41)

Its a shame they use the term remoaner in that PDF, kinda tells you where their allegancies lie...although to be fair their group name is a little bit of a give away

Be great to see some impartial anaylsis of the subject...

​​​

dpb

Would it be negative to say I'm skeptical of the article ?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Negative? You?

I'd have been surprised if you didn't/weren't, LOL

But worry not, Mrs dpb, your sisters will be along to back you up again in a minute.

hodgy0_2

this is laughable nonsense and gets rehashed every 3 or 4 months or so

it's nonsense, but it is kipper nonsense - so Brexidiots love it

essentially you can boil his argument down to


if we allow a severe dose of free market competition into the UK by unilaterally removing tariffs our industry would have no option but to increase competitiveness - hooray

even the author (Minford) admits it would decimate our manufacturing industry

nonsense indeed, but just imagine if "if's and but's were candles and nuts, it would be Christmas everyday"

but meat and veg to the thickies out there


meanwhile in other news - at the select committee hearings yesterday the Motor industry tells MP what leaving the EU means for them

http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index...4-d204c7914db9

essentially it will be "semi catastrophic" - because when we leave the EU our we will no longer be able licence i.e. give "type approval" to the cars manufactured here, which is required so that they can be sold in the EU

remember this is not a tariff issue - they don't really mention tariffs, it is a regulatory issue, and these same issues will be felt by all our major industries (Pharma, chemical financial etc etc)

that's why you can always tell "leave" nonsense because they always go on about "tariffs" not all the other more important barriers to trade

watch it, it is genuinely fascinating stuff

or you can read a summary here

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-customs-union

but I suggest watching the hearing because the above article has actually missed the point about type approval etc - i.e. NTB's

hodgy0_2

here - from the London School of Economics

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit06.pdf

and here

http://www.coppolacomment.com/2017/0...-illusion.html

but many others tbh

it is genuine bat **** crazy nonsense

hodgy0_2

lol, I have already made this point

"agreed, and that's why you Brexidiots are being laughed at

you were all so vocal last year - vomiting utter ****e all over the EU referendum thread

it seems to have gone quiet

anyone can have a "desire" to leave, just like people are at liberty to believe the earth is flat

people pointed out last year and continue to point out the laughable emptiness of any argument you put forward - just "desire" and "belief", not a lot else

but your concerns are noted

dpb

Grimsby Freeport , hilarious

trails

iTrader: (41)

LSE really weren't impressed were they...thanks for that

BMWhere?

you forgot all the "I'm not racist, but..." argument!

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Brexit explained in lay man's terms "and conditions" ...This may help to explain the impasse we have with our EU “friends”
Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
"Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
"I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis..
"Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"
In Mr Barniers office
Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club? "Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
"Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
"That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
"But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
"But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly
stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
"Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis. "No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier. "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year".
"I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
"No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
"Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof".
"Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
"Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".
"I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
"Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you
know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it". "This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier.
"Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for
food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"
"Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
"**** off!" says Mr Davis!!!

trails

iTrader: (41)

But why would Mr Davis want to leave the golf club at all; his alternative is to use the 5hittty recreation ground at a cost that has yet to be decided with no guarantees of there being a space for him to play...if the information Mr Barnier had imparted was a surprise then he probably should have tried to understand the implications of him leaving the golf club in the first place.


Or maybe his mate, (lets call him Mr Farage) gave him cr@p advice about leaving?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Brexit explained in lay man's terms "and conditions" ...This may help to explain the impasse we have with our EU “friends”
Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
"Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
"I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis..
"Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"
In Mr Barniers office
Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club? "Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
"Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
"That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
"But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
"But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly
stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
"Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis. "No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier. "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year".
"I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
"No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
"Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof".
"Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
"Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".
"I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
"Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you
know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it". "This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier.
"Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for
food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"
"Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
"**** off!" says Mr Davis!!!
__________________

And still the remoaners agree with one another on here.

dpb

Wouldnt you read the rules BEFORE joining , not assume

And why also then throw up your own conditions in addition

neil-h

I'm going to assume you didn't mean to agree with Trails

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

LOL, he's leaving because none of the other players obey, or play by the rules, the rules are utterly stupid, and the richer players are subsidising poorer players who were trying to undermine the club a few years ago....
Plus the committee aren't answerable to anyone and the club employees have been cheating the club for years......

trails

iTrader: (41)

editing a post changes history right...oh wait a moment

trails

iTrader: (41)

TBH I think both the original analogy and my reply are utter BS and worthless...but I suspect you didn't notice in your haste to congratulate someone that shares your opinion or denigrate the post of someone that doesn't

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You surprise me...not.....

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

The rules have changed since joining and Mr Davis doesn't have any influence over the new rules.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Agreed.
Nor any influence over the committe and who serves, their remuneration, or the right to see the club's books and who is cheating who, or stealing from who...

neil-h

Do we really have to do this again?

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

This "club membership'" analogy bears no resemblance whatsoever to our real situation, and elaborating on it doesn't help in clarifying what is actually happening. I wish it was as simple and straightforward as deciding not to remain as members of a golf club. To suggest so is trivialising and over-simplifying a deadly serious and important process. Just to add, as a retired chap who owns his house outright and has no debt, no dependents, and a few bob in savings (the very demographic that is blamed by some for the result of the referendum), I genuinely feel that we are on a disastrous course. I sincerely hope to be proved wrong. Whatever the outcome, it probably won't affect me personally in any material way, but believe it or not, I do care deeply about what the future holds for this country. The 80% of voters in my constituency who voted to remain appear to share my fears. I find it astounding that a year and a half since the referendum, we still have no idea at all where this country is heading, and, more's the point, neither do the government or the opposition.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

George Orwell's Animal Farm didn't really bare any true resemblance to the Russian Revolution and the subsequent journey into Stalinism but everybody understood the point he was making.

There are pros and cons on both sides of the argument. The problem is remainers just label anyone that voted out as a thick racist. Now whilst I accept there's certainly an element of that in the leave camp remainers either try to discount or discredit those of us that have thought carefully about our reasons for voting out.

Let's also not forget the level of gloom and doom B.S. that seems to be spouted non stop by those with vested interests in remaining.


One thing I will concede is that the Tories have made a complete ***** up of things so far and the cynic in me cannot help but think there's an element of deliberateness about it all.

If people put as much effort into making it a success is they do trying to stop it the whole task would be much easier and undoubtedly more successful in the long run.

dpb

Vested , as in direct finance interest ?



i think they better out themselves if thats the case

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

I disagree. Orwell's book was well constructed, well written and full of references and detail.


Some remainers may do, true, but not all by any means. Some leavers discount those of us remainers who have also thought it out carefully, saying that we should just suck it up and get over it, the people have spoken. The people in my area, and in many others, voted overwhelmingly to remain, what of our voice and concerns? In truth, my feelings on many aspects of the EU and the way it was heading were somewhat negative, but I was not offered any idea of a real alternative by the leave campaign. If I had been given a clear and truthful, well thought out alternative, I may have voted differently. As I've said before, our situation in the EU was not perfect by any means, but not a desperate one that needed the desperate action of leaving without any plan.


And also the outright lies and half truths endlessly spouted by those with a vested interest in leaving.

I feel very uneasy about a minority government handling this, when they seem hell bent on putting what's good for their Party and it's sponsors before what's good for the country.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I think you're missing my original point slightly which was it might not be technically accurate but people do understand its underlying meaning. My original analogy was on my facebook post and thought it mildly amusing and this thread was the first thing I thought of when i read it.



The demographics of large remain areas are interesting.
Spend a week in Doncaster however and you'll see how some of the Eastern Europeans behave. A suburb where I used to play as a kid is virtually a no go area now it's an horrendous place. This influences how people think. They are fed up of the trouble they cause and as they have had these people forced on them by EU regulation, Rightly or wrongly they see Brexit as the way to either make changes or stop it altogether. Personally I think answers to that problem lie elsewhere but you can't blame the people that live closest to those areas for voting the way they have.

If you haven't experienced that you're pretty oblivious to it and therefore its not an issue you need to relate to.

Obviously there are deeper issues than that but that's just an example of why people they are voting the way they have.


A vested interest in leaving? That's interesting. I'd like to see an example of how someone massively gains from leaving other than from Brexit being a success. Which is what we all want to happen isn't it?

Where as those with a vested interest in staying don't give a f"ck about how bad things are elsewhere. They just want to still get their backhanders, share dividends, pensions and perks from the EU. A sweeping generalisation I know but you get my point.


I'm in complete agreement with you there. The government have made a complete ***** up of it all to be honest. I thought that when May called the election that it was political suicide. Then I thought it was a deliberate ploy to undermine the Brexit vote. I still do.

One thing I do wish would happen is for all parties to just accept its happening. Then instead of all that effort going in to just slating each other and using every opportunity to score political advantage they could just roll their sleeves up, get their heads together and work out how deliver a Brexit that the majority are happy with.

I can't help but think that all this uncertainty and chaos is a deliberate ploy and there are a select few making billions out of it all.

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

Interesting indeed. In our area, we have a very diverse demographic, a real melting pot of races and nationalities, including a very visible Eastern European contingent, along with French, Swedish, Italians, Germans, Hungarians, Spanish, Thais, Somalis, South Americans, Afghanis, Turks, Lebanese, Vietnamese, the list is very long. Also, the constituency includes some of the most wealthy neighbourhoods and some of the poorest. Everyone gets on fine with each other. My ward voted 82% in favour of remain. Maybe it's because Bristol has a long history of immigration, we're used to other nationalities being here, and don't see them as the cause of problems that are due to other factors. I've always had Polish neighbours for example, everywhere I've lived here, going back to the '50s.

Absolutely. We're being seriously let down by this current crop of politicians, on all sides.

Maybe. Or maybe the chaos and uncertainty is because nobody thought it through properly, and underestimated the complexity and unintended consequences, eg the question of the Irish border and the potential undermining of the NI peace process. It seems no politicians had any contingency plans for the vote going the way it did. We know what people voted against: continued EU membership, but nobody seems to be able to agree on what they actually voted for.

Mr Fuji

Really? Without the EU control, the UK government will be able to roll back years of legislation relating to workers rights, safety, policy on green issues, limits on fishing, you name it.

Now I am not saying that the UK government wants to do all this, but it is easier to lobby an individual government with absolute unilateral powers if you are a huge business than it is to overturn legislation from the EU.