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So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.

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Old 04 December 2018, 04:26 PM
  #3871  
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People go to food banks for fun ?
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Old 04 December 2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dpb View Post
People go to food banks for fun ?
Think of it as enforced exercise. Good for the NHS.
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Old 04 December 2018, 04:51 PM
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Christ you lot are all bleating on like we only sell to the EU and nothing else.
Let's not forget we buy an awful lot from them too. It cuts both ways!
As for comparing me to Hitler I'm not even going to waste my time responding to that utter sh!te.

To be honest I don't know why I bothered commenting in the first place as it always ends up the same way with these types of things.

I'll come back when the predicted post Brexit Armageddon is a complete non event!.
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Old 04 December 2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
Christ you lot are all bleating on like we only sell to the EU and nothing else.
Let's not forget we buy an awful lot from them too. It cuts both ways!
As for comparing me to Hitler I'm not even going to waste my time responding to that utter sh!te.

To be honest I don't know why I bothered commenting in the first place as it always ends up the same way with these types of things.

I'll come back when the predicted post Brexit Armageddon is a complete non event!.
Well to be fair you've yet to post anything of value so maybe that's for the best
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Old 04 December 2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
Christ you lot are all bleating on like we only sell to the EU and nothing else.
Yes, we sell to countries all over the world, not just the EU, although the EU is our single largest and therefore most important trading partner.

The problem is, we sell to non-EU countries through a myriad of trade deals and partnerships that have been negotiated over the last 40 years, each of which reduces the trade barriers. You can read all about all the existing agreements here -> http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/cou...nd-agreements/

When we leave the EU with no deal, then all of those deals cease to be applicable for the UK. We go back to default WTO rules with no trade deals or partnerships with anyone. That will make exporting extremely difficult, even with a weak pound. We can lower our own import tariffs to avoid a price shock, but then we lower for everyone equally which will be potentially damaging for UK producers/manufacturers domestically.

New trade deals will take many years to negotiate and with the UK being much, much, smaller than the EU as a whole, our negotiating position will be weaker and therefore our trade deals less beneficial than those that we currently have via the EU. As has been often discussed, a trade deal with the US will almost certainly mean that the US can supply chlorine washed chicken, GM crops, fertilizers which are currently banned by the EU, not to mention give the US open access to the UK health service resulting in privatisation and private health insurance - If we're lucky, we may get our own version of Obamacare, perhaps "May care" but more likely "May doesn't care"!

In the end, there is one huge question that has never been answered by the Brexiteers - what do we actually gain by "taking back control"?

To break that down further:
Who exactly are we going to trade with on better terms than the EU already does or is currently in negotiations with?
What exactly are the restrictions that the EU is forcing on the UK which cannot possible live with?

In the end, the only perceivable benefit is the control of EU immigration, but that is the biggest red-herring out there as the latest migration figures show any reduction in EU migration is matched with an increase in non-EU migration and the UK also equally benefits from freedom of movement within the EU. Fishing quotas are another red-herring (pardon the pun) and the UK has reciprocal rights to the rest of the EU waters.

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Old 04 December 2018, 06:41 PM
  #3876  
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Originally Posted by trails View Post
Think of it as enforced exercise. Good for the NHS.

yup, an extra £450m a week extra for the NHS once we are out
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Old 04 December 2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by stevebt View Post
yup, an extra £450m a week extra for the NHS once we are out
Wow, the lie on the bus was only £350m a week!
Still, compared to the nearly £2.8bn a week current budget for Health, don't expect a great improvement!
The UK EU contributions accounts for a mear 0.6% of tax revenue. For the average tax payer, it equates to less than £1 a week or £50 a year. Most people probably donate more to charity than the EU costs them. In reality, there is no Brexit dividend simply because the amount is, in the grand scheme of things, is somewhat insignificant and that's not even considering the economic benefits that EU membership brings.
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Old 04 December 2018, 07:07 PM
  #3878  
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Big news: Government held in contempt of parliament over the Brexit deal legal advice!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694
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Old 04 December 2018, 07:37 PM
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Hardly big news, it was predicted. Government to publish full legal text tomorrow. Most important parts revealed, so what if there are further little tidbits
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Old 04 December 2018, 11:14 PM
  #3880  
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I can’t wait for us to negotiate a deal with the US, they’ll want a slice of the NHS, a ruinous slice and I’ll rub that in the faces of brexiteers till the day I die. Luckily half of them will be dead or destitute in the not too distant future.
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Old 05 December 2018, 08:53 AM
  #3881  
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The NHS currently is victim to global pharmaceutical companies extorting money from the NHS, long before the Brexit word even existed.

Lack of protectionism which we are prevented from doing on key treatments developed by both charities and UK based companies that are then taken over by global pharmaceutical companies that then hike up prices has cost the NHS billions in drug and equipment costs.

Johnson and Johnson; “a family company”

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Old 05 December 2018, 09:28 AM
  #3882  
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Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Hardly big news, it was predicted. Government to publish full legal text tomorrow. Most important parts revealed, so what if there are further little tidbits
The first time in history that a government has been found in contempt of parliament, and that's not big news? The fact that the government refused to publish the full advice despite being ordered to do so by parliament would indicate they have a lot to hide!

Parliament also defeated the government last night with an amendment to the meaningful vote if the deal is rejected, now MPs get to fully decide what happens! Finally parliament is taking back control from this minority government and moving in the right direction for a soft Brexit, or a second referendum or even better just scrapping Brexit in the national interest!
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Old 05 December 2018, 10:06 AM
  #3883  
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It was an amendment to a motion. The word on the street is that it can be ignored by government
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Old 05 December 2018, 10:22 AM
  #3884  
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Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
Christ you lot are all bleating on like we only sell to the EU and nothing else.
Let's not forget we buy an awful lot from them too. It cuts both ways!
As for comparing me to Hitler I'm not even going to waste my time responding to that utter sh!te.

To be honest I don't know why I bothered commenting in the first place as it always ends up the same way with these types of things.

I'll come back when the predicted post Brexit Armageddon is a complete non event!.
Ah yes, that fact that the comparison was not to say you are some sort of facist, racist genocidal maniac, but to simply highlight your head in the sand stance, like all Brexiteers, used as an excuse to avoid answering the questions posed.

Of course, armageddon is not what is proposed, but the growth will stall, and it does't have to.

As for project fear, perhaps you should watch
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Old 06 December 2018, 02:49 PM
  #3885  
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Those nice people have conveniently brought fwd a decision to this coming Monday !

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...exit-1-5808387
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Old 06 December 2018, 03:14 PM
  #3886  
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Originally Posted by dpb View Post
Those nice people have conveniently brought fwd a decision to this coming Monday !

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...exit-1-5808387
conspiracy theory time

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Old 06 December 2018, 04:05 PM
  #3887  
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And a story from there, too shows shy the Wrexiteers don't want another referendum. It's all unravelling for them, isn't it?

This is what happens when you lie, you get found out and you pay for it.
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Old 06 December 2018, 04:07 PM
  #3888  
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Originally Posted by Mr Fuji View Post
And a story from there, too shows shy the Wrexiteers don't want another referendum. It's all unravelling for them, isn't it?

This is what happens when you lie, you get found out and you pay for it.
What you reap is what you sow
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Old 06 December 2018, 05:00 PM
  #3889  
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More pounds for your euro coming up
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Old 07 December 2018, 07:54 PM
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found a nice little list of companies that where given grants by the eu to leave britain (PLEASE REMIND ME AGAIN WHY ITS SUCH
A GOOD IDEA TO STAY IN ) and please read the list before bleetingCadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
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Old 07 December 2018, 08:02 PM
  #3891  
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Originally Posted by BMWhere? View Post
Wow, the lie on the bus was only £350m a week!
Still, compared to the nearly £2.8bn a week current budget for Health, don't expect a great improvement!
The UK EU contributions accounts for a mear 0.6% of tax revenue. For the average tax payer, it equates to less than £1 a week or £50 a year. Most people probably donate more to charity than the EU costs them. In reality, there is no Brexit dividend simply because the amount is, in the grand scheme of things, is somewhat insignificant and that's not even considering the economic benefits that EU membership brings.
heres a nice list of eu benefits sadly not for us though just the compan ies that bought most of uk manufactoring,Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

ies that bought most of the uk

Last edited by madscoob; 07 December 2018 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 07 December 2018, 08:17 PM
  #3892  
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Business does what it can to stay competitive , more now than ever with an interconnected world

unless you want to follow trumps protectionist ideas which dont seem to be working ...
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Old 07 December 2018, 08:53 PM
  #3893  
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Originally Posted by madscoob View Post
found a nice little list of companies that where given grants by the eu to leave britain (PLEASE REMIND ME AGAIN WHY ITS SUCH
A GOOD IDEA TO STAY IN ) and please read the list
This list has been doing the rounds for a couple of years now, and is mostly completely untrue, or deliberately misleading. Here's one of many debunks that you should probably read,
http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the...out-of-the-uk/
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Old 07 December 2018, 09:00 PM
  #3894  
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https://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsource/
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Old 08 December 2018, 01:04 AM
  #3895  
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Originally Posted by madscoob View Post
heres a nice list of eu benefits sadly not for us though just the compan ies that bought most of uk manufactoring,Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Hollandís AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

ies that bought most of the uk
Oh God, not this drivel again
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Old 08 December 2018, 10:24 AM
  #3896  
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That lot was mostly debunked 2 years ago.

IIRC the only truth was the Ford Transit (which would have moved anyway regardless of funding). And the practice of asset stripping in the UK by company takeovers is a part-truth, but none of this is ‘EU Funded’.

The people to blame are a succession of governments that steered our economy to encourage it en-masse; The strong pound, high inflation, low interest, high wages, high energy costs, planning and pollution restrictions, lack of infrastructure investment etc. that made it unprofitable to operate in the UK and passively encourage it by lack of legislation regarding intellectual property rights and patents (One reason why the NHS is suffering a massive increase in the cost of some drugs that were developed using UK public funding).

Some politicians ‘probably’ went as far as blaming EU competition rules which is just pathetic horse crap and if it were, it would be something that could be amended by giving our MEPs a proper shove and promoting the relevant lobby group to make it happen. Or just do it anyway, like the French do (15% of Renault, 11%ish Airbus, 83% EDF, the list goes on), not that I’m pro-nationalisation, but do recognise the government needs to hold a big enough stake in a company to give enough influence to protect from the reality of letting capitalism run rampant that will inevitably result in all production going to the country with the cheapest wage and least legislation (planning, pollution, unionsetc), and basing headquarters in the most tax efficient country. You can’t blame the EU for that, but you can blame successive MPs that failed to recognise and act to amend UK legislation or indirectly employ protective measures. For example UK MEPs were involved in blocking amendments to the EU’s anti-dumping legislation regarding Chinese steel when other steel producing state were in favour, we’re still yet to hear a clear reason as to why, apart from the duty is not meant to punish a country doing this rather more to correct any damage done (which makes no sense as the duty level is still too low ).







Last edited by ALi-B; 08 December 2018 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 08 December 2018, 10:43 AM
  #3897  
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Japan about turn !

zero immigration hasnt pushed up wages , despite need for labour and full employment and ageing population

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/06/a...ers/index.html
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Old 08 December 2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JackClark View Post
I canít wait for us to negotiate a deal with the US, theyíll want a slice of the NHS, a ruinous slice and Iíll rub that in the faces of brexiteers till the day I die. Luckily half of them will be dead or destitute in the not too distant future.
Jeez, you post some utterly nasty ****e.
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Old 08 December 2018, 11:51 AM
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IIRC the only truth was the Ford Transit (which would have moved anyway regardless of funding). And the practice of asset stripping in the UK by company takeovers is a part-truth, but none of this is ‘EU Funded’.
And yet.........EU GRANTS to the Eastern European companies led to them building huge new hi-tec factories, and companies like LG moved from france and the UK staright there.


Who thought THAT was such a good idea? Even the Po's I've met thought we must be mad.
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Old 08 December 2018, 12:18 PM
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Loans not grants !

may as well copy / paste like the rest

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the...out-of-the-uk/

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