Martin2005

Here in lies the problem. You've only listened to the loons that told you that they need us more than we need them. You didn't listen to what the EU said all along. They've done exactly what they said they would do, not what the Brexiteers told you they'd do.

Now you blame them, because you refused to listen.


The ONLY thing the EU is interested in is maintaining it core freedoms.

This whole notion that the EU will be harmed more than UK by no deal is a Brexiteer fantasy. We do zero trade with the EU. Nothing. Another stupid piece of lazy thinking by people trying to hoodwink you.

trails

iTrader: (41)

Puerile but very funny

trails

iTrader: (41)

Why...how has the EU curtailed your way of life?

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

It is laughable.that you say we do zero trade with the EU.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Its probably not him personally. The freedom of movement has depressed low skilled wages, over run social services, housings. Keeping more low skilled British on benefits, leading to dropping of social responsibility/care . Wages are already beginning to rise for the lowest paid in the UK

There is no need to another layer of expensive bureaucracy, which has cleverly used slow creep to take control of national governments. Everything was fine with the EEC.

Mr Fuji

Bullying? They have been clear form the outset, and their position hasn't changed. They have offered a good deal, but May refused it, then they offered us the best deal they could within the confines of May's red lines, whilst protecting their interests, as anyone would. Please enlighten us as to how this translates into bullying.

Please stop quoting the "they will be worse off than us line", it shows a total lack of understanding of how the situation really is. It is the UK who will be worse off, but of course, everyone will be worse off under no deal. They are not going to lock out trading with us, it will just be more expensive, it really isn't that hard to understand. If we ceased to trade with the EU, our economy would collapse, totally. Not even idiots like Rees Mogg say we will be locked out, it's simply not something that would happen.

Tourism, again, do you really think that people are going to stop going to Europe? It's still the closest and cheapest holiday destination for the UK, it will just be less cheap. It's not like everyone can suddenly say "right, I'm off to the Caribbean then!", and despite a rare hot summer last year, people want to go abroad. Europe remains the only option for plenty of people.

I heard two statements recently which highlight either the misunderstanding that many Brexiteers have, or, to be kinder, the way they have been misled by the press and chancers like Farage/Rees Mogg. One was on QT last night, when a guy talked about Germany 'having to sell 850,000 cars to the UK, the phones will start ringing very soon" and on Breakfast where some guy said "we need to make Britain great again".

Firstly, Germany will still sell cars to Britain, the numbers may fluctuate a bit, but people will still buy them, they will just cost more. Even for cars we 'manufacture' in the UK, the supply lines still rely on the EU, all cars will be more expensive. What does he think the UK consumer is going to do, start buying Ssangyongs? All those luxury car buyers will switch to, er, well, erm, yes, quite.........

And as for Britain being great, how much greater exactly do they think it can be? We are the 5th largest economy in the world, punching well above out weight. We are not going to get any higher up the rankings with the emergence of India, Brazil, the tiger economies. The only other thing I can think of is that they wanted the Empire back..............

It is delusion of the highest order, on both counts, King Canute should be their mascot.

dpb

https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...s-immigration/

trails

iTrader: (41)

Anecdotes Andy and you know it...freedom of movement creates a net gain for this country and it's been proven many times by different organisations.

Martin2005

it's true.

It's also true to say that the EU does zero trade with the UK.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Its been reported that wages in the lowest sectors has began to rise in the last year or so. Net gain for tbe gdp of the country but not the lowest paid.

​​​​​​The EUs creep is now fully exposed. Its upto the remaining countries and more importantly whether population of each country actually want a superstate. By the looks of it, there are quite a few countries who are opposed to further integration.

trails

iTrader: (41)

There are myriad socio-economic reasons for low wages and as immigration has actually increased since the referendum results not sure what point you are trying to make?

EU creep; anecdote

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Fact look at the steps over the last 25 years, if not more. CAP CFA . Central bank Euro. standardized . Free movement control with penalties over national government spending budgets.

Just watch the next 10 years or so!

If it survives that long

trails

iTrader: (41)

You only speak about the things you perceive as negative...none of these things are an issue for me, particularly in the context of the positives being a member of the EU brings.

if you ask me what benefits I'm going to post a link to that Monty Python sketch

Mr Fuji

Seeing as Eu approval has risen within the EU since Brexit vote, that seems to be an unrealistically pessimistic view of its future! Narrative as opposed to facts

An0n0m0us

Lol so the replies to me from the remoaners show exactly how you have been hood winked by the EU stance. It works both ways in people having opinions and yours is no more right than mine. You call me hoodwinked and I think you are hoodwinked. We go back to the EU with no deal and call their bluff. So far all you lot want to do is bend over and take whatever the EU demands from us and I completely disagree with that stance. That's not negotiating. They can either have a no deal which will be bad for them of they can swallow their pride and negotiate to a deal that will get through our parliament and one that doesn't involve free movement of people.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Without going into any other details, if the UK went ahead and did exactly what you're suggesting here, what do you believe the odds are that the EU would blink and start making concessions, and what do you think they are that they'd just tell us to go away and do one?

dpb

There has to be some kind of time limit though you see.

just dropping out isnt most peoples idea of negotiating

An0n0m0us

As for this absolute gem of a reply what a classic So you know me to say who I have or haven't listened to or anything else you've assumed about me. A typical remoaner criticising anyone elses view which doesn't fit with their own. You really do speak a load of boll0cks

An0n0m0us

I couldn't care less if they didn't budge i'm all for a no deal. The horrific scaremongering of what would happen in that situation is all from the remoaners doing their absolute best to stop Brexit. The EU keep saying they don't want a no deal so if they are really that against it they can renegotiate a deal that is acceptable.

dpb

Which is ?

Martin2005

Except I'm not a remoaner, I'm on board the Brexit train, it's just that I don't have my head full of fantasy

Mr Fuji

Of course we have opinions, but you have said things which are factually incorrect. So, do you not understand why they are incorrect, or do not care?

Yes, no deal is bad for everyone, the EU accepts that, and they have offered us a decent deal, one which did not include free movement, and we rejected it. The May comes up with something that neither Brexiteer or Remainer will accept, and we rejected that, that is nothing to do with the EU!

You can have all the opinions you want, but but some things are not opinion!

Mr Fuji

They already did offer us that deal, we rejected it. How many more times would you like me to post that?

dpb

Brexiteers dont even Know what they they want

presumably free trade and no free movement - or we walk away lol

andy97

iTrader: (1)

That wasnt a deal, it was an iron maiden

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

That wasn't my question. I asked, in your honest opinion, what you think the probability is that they'll start offering concessions, or just tell us to go and do one. You claim to have been following all these developments quite closely, so you must have some idea which way you think it'll go, and what the odds are either way, surely?

trails

iTrader: (41)

Mr Fuji

Ah sorry, I forgot that the Brexiteer idea of a fair deal is to have all the benefits we have now but no movement of people or EU regulations. Meanwhile, back in the real world........

Little Britain can get whatever it wants, those Johnny Foreigners should be grateful we even want to have a relationship with them.

An0n0m0us

I don't want to be paying them £39bn or free movement of people or having laws set in Brussels hence the only way I get my way is a no deal. I couldn't give a **** about free trade if it comes at the cost of all the things I don't want. Free trade works both ways if they want to start imposing trade tariffs. Plus we don't have to buy or sell anything from/to the EU, the rest of the World is a considerably bigger market

An0n0m0us

And the only answer from the remoaners is to bend over and take it from the EU for eternity.