So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
03 December 2018, 02:34 PM
#3841
I'll be honest there is still some proper condescending horse sh!te being written on here.
Still the same old "Brexiteers are thick racists" crap being spouted.
So project fear is just in a Brexiteers imagination right? Just look at the news outlets last week when no deal became a real possibility. Economic disaster looming, food shortages, house prices dropping by 30%, GDP dropping by 11% over the next 15 years, at a greater risk of security threats.
The list continues to be added to on a daily basis blah blah.
They tried all this bo11ocks before the vote too. GDP would fall blah blah, it rose. Admittedly because of the weaker £ but my point there is they completely miscalculated it by almost 5%.
The only thing that's made Brexit the mess that it's become is the Remainers not accepting the vote and not getting behind it.
I also tend to agree with what's already been written. The negotiations have been deliberately cocked up so that another "peoples vote" is the only real possibility. The initial vote gets overturned and remainers will then spout the whole process has been democratic.
Democracy my ****!
Still the same old "Brexiteers are thick racists" crap being spouted.
So project fear is just in a Brexiteers imagination right? Just look at the news outlets last week when no deal became a real possibility. Economic disaster looming, food shortages, house prices dropping by 30%, GDP dropping by 11% over the next 15 years, at a greater risk of security threats.
The list continues to be added to on a daily basis blah blah.
They tried all this bo11ocks before the vote too. GDP would fall blah blah, it rose. Admittedly because of the weaker £ but my point there is they completely miscalculated it by almost 5%.
The only thing that's made Brexit the mess that it's become is the Remainers not accepting the vote and not getting behind it.
I also tend to agree with what's already been written. The negotiations have been deliberately cocked up so that another "peoples vote" is the only real possibility. The initial vote gets overturned and remainers will then spout the whole process has been democratic.
Democracy my ****!
It's not a case of not getting behind it, what is there to get behind? Leavers have not come up with anything in the negotiations. You say remainers get the predictions wrong (which is interesting as we haven't left the EU yet), but expect them to be happy with "we'll be fine under WTO rules" without any justification or any forecast of what that will be. Pots and kettles, it would seem.
If the initial vote gets "overturned" it is no less democratic than the Tories getting turfed out in the next general election before all their policies were implemented.
Clearly you don't understand what democracy means.
03 December 2018, 04:08 PM
#3842
Clearly there's more to it than that but I'm sure even you are intelligent enough to see the point I was making.
Do you not think that had the vote been a landslide majority in favour of leave that the UK would have been in a stronger negotiating position from the start?
What you have is Remain trying every dirty trick in the book to get it overturned or undone since the day after the referendum.
Can you imagine how apoplectic remainers would be if the the vote went the other way but the leave camp tried all this underhand crap afterwards? There'd be uproar!!
Too many of you believe the pish that everything will crash and the whole thing will be a disaster. Yes there's going to be a bit of short term upset but it won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment would have you believe. Most importantly we'll quickly recover from it.
The EU is making things as difficult as they can because a successful Brexit will lead to other countries following suit and the whole corrupt institute falling like a deck of cards.
At the end of the day the EU have products and services we want and we have products and services they want and agreements would be made because of that. It really is that simple.
Do you not think that had the vote been a landslide majority in favour of leave that the UK would have been in a stronger negotiating position from the start?
What you have is Remain trying every dirty trick in the book to get it overturned or undone since the day after the referendum.
Can you imagine how apoplectic remainers would be if the the vote went the other way but the leave camp tried all this underhand crap afterwards? There'd be uproar!!
Too many of you believe the pish that everything will crash and the whole thing will be a disaster. Yes there's going to be a bit of short term upset but it won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment would have you believe. Most importantly we'll quickly recover from it.
The EU is making things as difficult as they can because a successful Brexit will lead to other countries following suit and the whole corrupt institute falling like a deck of cards.
At the end of the day the EU have products and services we want and we have products and services they want and agreements would be made because of that. It really is that simple.
03 December 2018, 04:10 PM
#3843
Project fear? What about pictures of lines of immigrants saying coming here soon when that patently was not true? Both campaigns said silly things, I don't think anyone denies that.
It's not a case of not getting behind it, what is there to get behind? Leavers have not come up with anything in the negotiations. You say remainers get the predictions wrong (which is interesting as we haven't left the EU yet), but expect them to be happy with "we'll be fine under WTO rules" without any justification or any forecast of what that will be. Pots and kettles, it would seem.
If the initial vote gets "overturned" it is no less democratic than the Tories getting turfed out in the next general election before all their policies were implemented.
Clearly you don't understand what democracy means.
It's not a case of not getting behind it, what is there to get behind? Leavers have not come up with anything in the negotiations. You say remainers get the predictions wrong (which is interesting as we haven't left the EU yet), but expect them to be happy with "we'll be fine under WTO rules" without any justification or any forecast of what that will be. Pots and kettles, it would seem.
If the initial vote gets "overturned" it is no less democratic than the Tories getting turfed out in the next general election before all their policies were implemented.
Clearly you don't understand what democracy means.
This is the exact sort of BS I'm talking about.
Christ, and they call us Brexiteers thick.
03 December 2018, 04:12 PM
#3844
03 December 2018, 04:24 PM
#3846
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Clearly there's more to it than that but I'm sure even you are intelligent enough to see the point I was making.
Do you not think that had the vote been a landslide majority in favour of leave that the UK would have been in a stronger negotiating position from the start?
What you have is Remain trying every dirty trick in the book to get it overturned or undone since the day after the referendum.
Can you imagine how apoplectic remainers would be if the the vote went the other way but the leave camp tried all this underhand crap afterwards? There'd be uproar!!
Too many of you believe the pish that everything will crash and the whole thing will be a disaster. Yes there's going to be a bit of short term upset but it won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment would have you believe. Most importantly we'll quickly recover from it.
The EU is making things as difficult as they can because a successful Brexit will lead to other countries following suit and the whole corrupt institute falling like a deck of cards.
At the end of the day the EU have products and services we want and we have products and services they want and agreements would be made because of that. It really is that simple.
Do you not think that had the vote been a landslide majority in favour of leave that the UK would have been in a stronger negotiating position from the start?
What you have is Remain trying every dirty trick in the book to get it overturned or undone since the day after the referendum.
Can you imagine how apoplectic remainers would be if the the vote went the other way but the leave camp tried all this underhand crap afterwards? There'd be uproar!!
Too many of you believe the pish that everything will crash and the whole thing will be a disaster. Yes there's going to be a bit of short term upset but it won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment would have you believe. Most importantly we'll quickly recover from it.
The EU is making things as difficult as they can because a successful Brexit will lead to other countries following suit and the whole corrupt institute falling like a deck of cards.
At the end of the day the EU have products and services we want and we have products and services they want and agreements would be made because of that. It really is that simple.
Best case scenario if you want to remain would be a narrow ‘Remain’ win, for me though, that would just result in pandemonium. A never ending row and a schism in our society, far worse the very worst impacts of Brexit. We should not go down this road.We’re in an ugly position now, all options look terrible; therefore it’s probably better in the long-run if we take the most decisive course of action.
As for ‘Project Fear’ and the latest government and treasury forecasts…It shouldn’t come as a huge surprise to anyone that if you make trading harder and restrict companies access to migrant workers then it will impact the economy – to just waive all this away as ‘Project Fear’ shows that you’re not really interested.
Last edited by Martin2005; 03 December 2018 at 04:27 PM.
03 December 2018, 04:28 PM
#3847
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"......and the whole corrupt institute falling like a deck of cards."
this and the Supposition that wages and resources will suddenly improve / irish border is a non issue .......
just might be why its all rumbling on as it is
this and the Supposition that wages and resources will suddenly improve / irish border is a non issue .......
just might be why its all rumbling on as it is
03 December 2018, 04:43 PM
#3848
On the contrary, I've been following it all quite closely. I don't read / watch just one news source either.
I like to think my views on this are reasonably balanced. I'm not in the slightest bit racist and having lived in various countries over my 46 years on this planet I like to think I have good experience to make informed decisions on such things as immigration etc.
If you don't think Project Fear actually exists then you're not as bright as you think you are.
The constant threats of impending doom that were in the news late last week are testament to that.
It was one story after the other about the disastrous effects of a no deal.
Then we had Mark Carney doing what he does best.
The timing of it all was just ridiculous one story after the other in quick succession. Orchestrated fear mongering if ever I have seen it.
I like to think my views on this are reasonably balanced. I'm not in the slightest bit racist and having lived in various countries over my 46 years on this planet I like to think I have good experience to make informed decisions on such things as immigration etc.
If you don't think Project Fear actually exists then you're not as bright as you think you are.
The constant threats of impending doom that were in the news late last week are testament to that.
It was one story after the other about the disastrous effects of a no deal.
Then we had Mark Carney doing what he does best.
The timing of it all was just ridiculous one story after the other in quick succession. Orchestrated fear mongering if ever I have seen it.
03 December 2018, 04:59 PM
#3849
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On the contrary, I've been following it all quite closely. I don't read / watch just one news source either.
I like to think my views on this are reasonably balanced. I'm not in the slightest bit racist and having lived in various countries over my 46 years on this planet I like to think I have good experience to make informed decisions on such things as immigration etc.
If you don't think Project Fear actually exists then you're not as bright as you think you are.
The constant threats of impending doom that were in the news late last week are testament to that.
It was one story after the other about the disastrous effects of a no deal.
Then we had Mark Carney doing what he does best.
The timing of it all was just ridiculous one story after the other in quick succession. Orchestrated fear mongering if ever I have seen it.
I like to think my views on this are reasonably balanced. I'm not in the slightest bit racist and having lived in various countries over my 46 years on this planet I like to think I have good experience to make informed decisions on such things as immigration etc.
If you don't think Project Fear actually exists then you're not as bright as you think you are.
The constant threats of impending doom that were in the news late last week are testament to that.
It was one story after the other about the disastrous effects of a no deal.
Then we had Mark Carney doing what he does best.
The timing of it all was just ridiculous one story after the other in quick succession. Orchestrated fear mongering if ever I have seen it.
Isn't project fear just an emotive name conjured up by the leave camp looking for a convenient label for any information that reports their stance?
Carney seema to have done better than his predecessor and been asked to stay for a longer tenure than originally planned...his measured approach seems to be working albeit slowly.
03 December 2018, 05:07 PM
#3850
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On the contrary, I've been following it all quite closely. I don't read / watch just one news source either.
I like to think my views on this are reasonably balanced. I'm not in the slightest bit racist and having lived in various countries over my 46 years on this planet I like to think I have good experience to make informed decisions on such things as immigration etc.
If you don't think Project Fear actually exists then you're not as bright as you think you are.
The constant threats of impending doom that were in the news late last week are testament to that.
It was one story after the other about the disastrous effects of a no deal.
Then we had Mark Carney doing what he does best.
The timing of it all was just ridiculous one story after the other in quick succession. Orchestrated fear mongering if ever I have seen it.
I like to think my views on this are reasonably balanced. I'm not in the slightest bit racist and having lived in various countries over my 46 years on this planet I like to think I have good experience to make informed decisions on such things as immigration etc.
If you don't think Project Fear actually exists then you're not as bright as you think you are.
The constant threats of impending doom that were in the news late last week are testament to that.
It was one story after the other about the disastrous effects of a no deal.
Then we had Mark Carney doing what he does best.
The timing of it all was just ridiculous one story after the other in quick succession. Orchestrated fear mongering if ever I have seen it.
To dismiss the current assessments as Project Fear must mean that you have some understanding of the short term benefits of a no deal crash-out? If so, what are they?
At the moment impacts are all highly likely to be negative
Last edited by Martin2005; 03 December 2018 at 05:11 PM.
03 December 2018, 06:01 PM
#3851
Not combative, just to the point. I despise being labelled as thick and racist. Two things I am certainly not. That is the defacto opinion that most remainers have of a Brexiteer though and quite frankly it pisses me off.
I'm not saying things will be all positive post referendum. I would be thick if I thought that. I do however believe wholeheartedly that things won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment is trying to ram down our throats at the minute in order to influence things in their favour.
I also think any negative impact will be relatively short lived.
If we do end up crashing out with a no deal life will go on. We'll default to WTO rules we'll still be buying and selling to and from the rest of the world and the rest of the world will still be buying and selling from and to us. Other countries outside of the EU have good strong economies. Are you all saying that we can't possibly be one of them?
We offer some of the best products and services in the world. That doesn't change the instant we leave the EU.
I just wish people had faith in what we can achieve without the shackles of the EU.
The EU was supposed to be a trading union, its gone way beyond that.
Personally I don't want to be swallowed up as part of some European Superstate.
I would agree though May's deal, f*cks everybody!!
I'm not saying things will be all positive post referendum. I would be thick if I thought that. I do however believe wholeheartedly that things won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment is trying to ram down our throats at the minute in order to influence things in their favour.
I also think any negative impact will be relatively short lived.
If we do end up crashing out with a no deal life will go on. We'll default to WTO rules we'll still be buying and selling to and from the rest of the world and the rest of the world will still be buying and selling from and to us. Other countries outside of the EU have good strong economies. Are you all saying that we can't possibly be one of them?
We offer some of the best products and services in the world. That doesn't change the instant we leave the EU.
I just wish people had faith in what we can achieve without the shackles of the EU.
The EU was supposed to be a trading union, its gone way beyond that.
Personally I don't want to be swallowed up as part of some European Superstate.
I would agree though May's deal, f*cks everybody!!
03 December 2018, 08:12 PM
#3853
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Not combative, just to the point. I despise being labelled as thick and racist. Two things I am certainly not. That is the defacto opinion that most remainers have of a Brexiteer though and quite frankly it pisses me off.
I'm not saying things will be all positive post referendum. I would be thick if I thought that. I do however believe wholeheartedly that things won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment is trying to ram down our throats at the minute in order to influence things in their favour.
I also think any negative impact will be relatively short lived.
If we do end up crashing out with a no deal life will go on. We'll default to WTO rules we'll still be buying and selling to and from the rest of the world and the rest of the world will still be buying and selling from and to us. Other countries outside of the EU have good strong economies. Are you all saying that we can't possibly be one of them?
We offer some of the best products and services in the world. That doesn't change the instant we leave the EU.
I just wish people had faith in what we can achieve without the shackles of the EU.
The EU was supposed to be a trading union, its gone way beyond that.
Personally I don't want to be swallowed up as part of some European Superstate.
I would agree though May's deal, f*cks everybody!!
I'm not saying things will be all positive post referendum. I would be thick if I thought that. I do however believe wholeheartedly that things won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment is trying to ram down our throats at the minute in order to influence things in their favour.
I also think any negative impact will be relatively short lived.
If we do end up crashing out with a no deal life will go on. We'll default to WTO rules we'll still be buying and selling to and from the rest of the world and the rest of the world will still be buying and selling from and to us. Other countries outside of the EU have good strong economies. Are you all saying that we can't possibly be one of them?
We offer some of the best products and services in the world. That doesn't change the instant we leave the EU.
I just wish people had faith in what we can achieve without the shackles of the EU.
The EU was supposed to be a trading union, its gone way beyond that.
Personally I don't want to be swallowed up as part of some European Superstate.
I would agree though May's deal, f*cks everybody!!
Martin's question is a cracker though...
04 December 2018, 08:07 AM
#3854
Scooby Senior
04 December 2018, 08:37 AM
#3855
Not combative, just to the point. I despise being labelled as thick and racist. Two things I am certainly not. That is the defacto opinion that most remainers have of a Brexiteer though and quite frankly it pisses me off.
I'm not saying things will be all positive post referendum. I would be thick if I thought that. I do however believe wholeheartedly that things won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment is trying to ram down our throats at the minute in order to influence things in their favour.
I also think any negative impact will be relatively short lived.
If we do end up crashing out with a no deal life will go on. We'll default to WTO rules we'll still be buying and selling to and from the rest of the world and the rest of the world will still be buying and selling from and to us. Other countries outside of the EU have good strong economies. Are you all saying that we can't possibly be one of them?
We offer some of the best products and services in the world. That doesn't change the instant we leave the EU.
I just wish people had faith in what we can achieve without the shackles of the EU.
The EU was supposed to be a trading union, its gone way beyond that.
Personally I don't want to be swallowed up as part of some European Superstate.
I would agree though May's deal, f*cks everybody!!
I'm not saying things will be all positive post referendum. I would be thick if I thought that. I do however believe wholeheartedly that things won't be anywhere near as bad as the establishment is trying to ram down our throats at the minute in order to influence things in their favour.
I also think any negative impact will be relatively short lived.
If we do end up crashing out with a no deal life will go on. We'll default to WTO rules we'll still be buying and selling to and from the rest of the world and the rest of the world will still be buying and selling from and to us. Other countries outside of the EU have good strong economies. Are you all saying that we can't possibly be one of them?
We offer some of the best products and services in the world. That doesn't change the instant we leave the EU.
I just wish people had faith in what we can achieve without the shackles of the EU.
The EU was supposed to be a trading union, its gone way beyond that.
Personally I don't want to be swallowed up as part of some European Superstate.
I would agree though May's deal, f*cks everybody!!
Tell us how we solve the Irish border question, not quoting some technology that may or may not happen in the next 5 years. Quantify how much better WTO rules will be for UK business. All else is conjecture, you don't know the nature of any deals that may be struck or how long they will take (the hundreds we have to do). Any deal other than zero tariffs and frictionless trade with the EU is worse than the current deal, but hey, that's only 46% of our trade.
The government and BoE forecasts are based on a deal we can see, and on a no deal with WTO rules, they are quantifiable things, quit unlike what was said by the campaigners before the referendum. Simply labelling something project fear because it doesn't meet with your uptopian view of Brexit doesn't make it untrue or invalid.
Your kind of blind optmism is akin to Hitlers view of the war after 1943 despite what his generals were telling him!
04 December 2018, 09:32 AM
#3856
Fair enough. So we have 3 options, Mays deal, no deal or stay in EU.
Which would you choose?
These are our only options and no matter who was doing our bargaining with the EU. Realistically the wishful deal the leave campaign promised us was never on the table was it? Lets be realistic here.
This whole process has already massively damaged our economy just getting to this point, regardless if we leave or not now. Just look at all the major business withdrawing from our country every month and closing down. Even if we pull out now we will be years behind where we started as a country before the referendum.
Which would you choose?
These are our only options and no matter who was doing our bargaining with the EU. Realistically the wishful deal the leave campaign promised us was never on the table was it? Lets be realistic here.
This whole process has already massively damaged our economy just getting to this point, regardless if we leave or not now. Just look at all the major business withdrawing from our country every month and closing down. Even if we pull out now we will be years behind where we started as a country before the referendum.
04 December 2018, 12:53 PM
#3861
Scooby Senior
Article 50: Law officer says UK can cancel Brexit
Some good news, we can almost certainly get out of article 50 without the EU's agreement!
That's the best deal that's on the table!
Some good news, we can almost certainly get out of article 50 without the EU's agreement!
That's the best deal that's on the table!
04 December 2018, 01:47 PM
#3864
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Article 50: Law officer says UK can cancel Brexit
Some good news, we can almost certainly get out of article 50 without the EU's agreement!
That's the best deal that's on the table!
Some good news, we can almost certainly get out of article 50 without the EU's agreement!
That's the best deal that's on the table!
04 December 2018, 02:12 PM
#3867
Scooby Senior
Its not about being afraid, its about being prepared!
Digging your head in the sand as if Brexit will have no effect is delusional.
The current "project fear" is presenting both best and worst case scenarios. The recommendation is to prepare for the worst case and hope for the best case, neither of which is preparing for no-change!
Digging your head in the sand as if Brexit will have no effect is delusional.
The current "project fear" is presenting both best and worst case scenarios. The recommendation is to prepare for the worst case and hope for the best case, neither of which is preparing for no-change!
04 December 2018, 02:52 PM
#3868
Fantastic idea, it will make a huge step in reducing obesity in children and adults. This will have massive health benefits, knock on savings into billions for the health service. Bring it on
Last edited by andy97; 04 December 2018 at 02:53 PM.
04 December 2018, 02:53 PM
#3869
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Its not about being afraid, its about being prepared!
Digging your head in the sand as if Brexit will have no effect is delusional.
The current "project fear" is presenting both best and worst case scenarios. The recommendation is to prepare for the worst case and hope for the best case, neither of which is preparing for no-change!
Digging your head in the sand as if Brexit will have no effect is delusional.
The current "project fear" is presenting both best and worst case scenarios. The recommendation is to prepare for the worst case and hope for the best case, neither of which is preparing for no-change!
