So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
31 October 2018, 09:52 PM
#3633
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46039623
Osborn admits the Brexit Vote was because the Conservatives made mistakes!
Osborn admits the Brexit Vote was because the Conservatives made mistakes!
They got it wrong.
31 October 2018, 10:37 PM
#3634
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Apologies if this has already been posted - But I reckon it's a large part of the reason Merkel's had enough.
Speech on Brexit by AfD leader Alice Weidel in German parliament (Bundestag), English subtitles
06 November 2018, 01:26 PM
#3638
Scooby Senior
and so the exodus begins...
Schaeffle closing two plants because of Brexit
That's 500 people who won't be having a happy Christmas!
Schaeffle closing two plants because of Brexit
That's 500 people who won't be having a happy Christmas!
06 November 2018, 01:53 PM
#3639
and so the exodus begins...
Schaeffle closing two plants because of Brexit
That's 500 people who won't be having a happy Christmas!
Schaeffle closing two plants because of Brexit
That's 500 people who won't be having a happy Christmas!
06 November 2018, 04:21 PM
#3640
Any business that is booming is booming under EU rules. Whatever people may claim, nothing has changed yet. Even if a company that claims it is doing well because of Brexit can, at best, only be doing well on the supposition that we will get exactly what we want. That is extremely unlikely. There will be some businesses that can do well, possibly, because of a weaker pound after we exit with no deal or a bad deal, but it's not sustainable if the rest of the economy tanks.
The noise is becoming deafening for some sort of referendum now, whatever question it poses, it simply cannot go on like this, there is too much at stake, for both side. Leave have not got what they want, nor remain. Only one side can have what they want, at the moment, satisfying no one leaves us in limbo and will be bad for everyone.
The noise is becoming deafening for some sort of referendum now, whatever question it poses, it simply cannot go on like this, there is too much at stake, for both side. Leave have not got what they want, nor remain. Only one side can have what they want, at the moment, satisfying no one leaves us in limbo and will be bad for everyone.
08 November 2018, 01:39 PM
#3641
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We can just rely on the EU/ France for powering all our leccy cars , right ?
or maybe stuff up few more windmills
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46122255
or maybe stuff up few more windmills
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46122255
08 November 2018, 04:38 PM
#3642
Scooby Senior
So Raab has finally worked out that we need to ship stuff across the channel! You couldn't make this **** up, just how incompetent are these Tory Brexiteers?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46142188
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46142188
08 November 2018, 04:52 PM
#3643
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So Raab has finally worked out that we need to ship stuff across the channel! You couldn't make this **** up, just how incompetent are these Tory Brexiteers?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46142188
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46142188
08 November 2018, 05:52 PM
#3644
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You have to wonder just how representative this might be of the average leaver
not knowing , indeed caring
" Dont want that foreign muck "
not knowing , indeed caring
" Dont want that foreign muck "
Last edited by dpb; 09 November 2018 at 10:02 AM.
09 November 2018, 08:28 AM
#3645
09 November 2018, 08:58 AM
#3646
I voted leave for 2 reasons...
1: british fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters as the rights have been gove. To the French. This is 8 miles off the uk shoreline - all because France have ruined their stock levels
2: there’s a group of people in Brussels who I didn’t have a say or vote for them and they are telling this country how it should be run.
i know someone who has worked within the Eu building and because they couldn’t decide which building they were going to work in they decided to have both.
said person was told on his first day the exact things to claim for right away and he couldntbelvie how lavish and wasteful they are with ours & other countries moneys.
the sooner we are out the better. Stop scaremongering and let’s get on with it.
wonder if it’ll be all I told you so.
1: british fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters as the rights have been gove. To the French. This is 8 miles off the uk shoreline - all because France have ruined their stock levels
2: there’s a group of people in Brussels who I didn’t have a say or vote for them and they are telling this country how it should be run.
i know someone who has worked within the Eu building and because they couldn’t decide which building they were going to work in they decided to have both.
said person was told on his first day the exact things to claim for right away and he couldntbelvie how lavish and wasteful they are with ours & other countries moneys.
the sooner we are out the better. Stop scaremongering and let’s get on with it.
wonder if it’ll be all I told you so.
09 November 2018, 10:25 AM
#3648
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I voted leave for 2 reasons...
1: british fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters as the rights have been gove. To the French. This is 8 miles off the uk shoreline - all because France have ruined their stock levels
2: there’s a group of people in Brussels who I didn’t have a say or vote for them and they are telling this country how it should be run.
i know someone who has worked within the Eu building and because they couldn’t decide which building they were going to work in they decided to have both.
said person was told on his first day the exact things to claim for right away and he couldntbelvie how lavish and wasteful they are with ours & other countries moneys.
the sooner we are out the better. Stop scaremongering and let’s get on with it.
wonder if it’ll be all I told you so.
1: british fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters as the rights have been gove. To the French. This is 8 miles off the uk shoreline - all because France have ruined their stock levels
2: there’s a group of people in Brussels who I didn’t have a say or vote for them and they are telling this country how it should be run.
i know someone who has worked within the Eu building and because they couldn’t decide which building they were going to work in they decided to have both.
said person was told on his first day the exact things to claim for right away and he couldntbelvie how lavish and wasteful they are with ours & other countries moneys.
the sooner we are out the better. Stop scaremongering and let’s get on with it.
wonder if it’ll be all I told you so.
09 November 2018, 10:43 AM
#3649
Scooby Senior
I voted leave for 2 reasons...
1: british fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters as the rights have been gove. To the French. This is 8 miles off the uk shoreline - all because France have ruined their stock levels
2: there’s a group of people in Brussels who I didn’t have a say or vote for them and they are telling this country how it should be run.
i know someone who has worked within the Eu building and because they couldn’t decide which building they were going to work in they decided to have both.
said person was told on his first day the exact things to claim for right away and he couldntbelvie how lavish and wasteful they are with ours & other countries moneys.
the sooner we are out the better. Stop scaremongering and let’s get on with it.
wonder if it’ll be all I told you so.
1: british fisherman are not allowed to fish their own waters as the rights have been gove. To the French. This is 8 miles off the uk shoreline - all because France have ruined their stock levels
2: there’s a group of people in Brussels who I didn’t have a say or vote for them and they are telling this country how it should be run.
i know someone who has worked within the Eu building and because they couldn’t decide which building they were going to work in they decided to have both.
said person was told on his first day the exact things to claim for right away and he couldntbelvie how lavish and wasteful they are with ours & other countries moneys.
the sooner we are out the better. Stop scaremongering and let’s get on with it.
wonder if it’ll be all I told you so.
2. You have a vote for the EU parliament. The fact that you didn't vote doesn't make them unelected. The EU commission is appointed by the individual governments, they are essentially voted indirectly in the national election, you vote Tory and the Tories will select their cabinet and other positions such as the EU commissioner. You don't vote for them directly, but it is still a democratic process. The final significant body is the council of the EU which consists of the leaders of each country or an elected minister for that position, essentially also elected by your national elections. There are of course many other people employed as civil servants for the EU and just like the British civil service they are not elected, they are merely the people who do the day to day real work as instructed by the elected parliament. So this notion of unelected people telling us what to do is a pure myth.
Both points have been discussed many time here, but the fact that they still haven't sunk in shows that you are either unwilling to listen to reasoned arguments and research the truth behind the fake news or just too stupid to understand!
As for abuse of expenses and wastage, yes that's a problem, but its a problem that could be addressed by reform. Also, if you believe the situation in Westminster is any better, then you really are very naive! The reality is, such expenses may seem like quite a lot of money on their own, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, its pretty much insignificant. The real cost of UK membership of the EU, after rebates, subsidies and return investments (so not the £350M on the side of the bus), it is also a pretty insignificant amount compared against the NHS budget or defense spending. What we get out of the EU through the customs union is worth far more than the relatively small fee which it costs us.
09 November 2018, 10:49 AM
#3650
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1. British fishermen can fish in British waters, but there are quotas to protect the fish stocks. What they often forget to mention when complaining about the foreign boats fishing in British waters is that the British can also fish in their waters. Maybe you missed the whole scallop wars a few months ago where Brits were fishing French scallops out of season. The French stocks are no worse than the British stocks, its just fish have the ability to move and aren't always exactly where you need them to be! The fishing industry is also heavily subsidized by the EU as part of the quota scheme. When we leave the EU, the British fishermen will loose their subsidies and loose access to valuable EU waters outside of Britain. On the whole, the fishermen don't really want to leave the EU, they just want higher quotas, but that will devastate fish stocks even further. If there are no fish left, there is no need for fishermen. The real point is, the current levels of industrial fishing is simply not sustainable and quotas and subsidies are the best way to protect the environment while inflicting the minimum amount of pain on the oversized fishing industry.
2. You have a vote for the EU parliament. The fact that you didn't vote doesn't make them unelected. The EU commission is appointed by the individual governments, they are essentially voted indirectly in the national election, you vote Tory and the Tories will select their cabinet and other positions such as the EU commissioner. You don't vote for them directly, but it is still a democratic process. The final significant body is the council of the EU which consists of the leaders of each country or an elected minister for that position, essentially also elected by your national elections. There are of course many other people employed as civil servants for the EU and just like the British civil service they are not elected, they are merely the people who do the day to day real work as instructed by the elected parliament. So this notion of unelected people telling us what to do is a pure myth.
Both points have been discussed many time here, but the fact that they still haven't sunk in shows that you are either unwilling to listen to reasoned arguments and research the truth behind the fake news or just too stupid to understand!
As for abuse of expenses and wastage, yes that's a problem, but its a problem that could be addressed by reform. Also, if you believe the situation in Westminster is any better, then you really are very naive! The reality is, such expenses may seem like quite a lot of money on their own, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, its pretty much insignificant. The real cost of UK membership of the EU, after rebates, subsidies and return investments (so not the £350M on the side of the bus), it is also a pretty insignificant amount compared against the NHS budget or defense spending. What we get out of the EU through the customs union is worth far more than the relatively small fee which it costs us.
2. You have a vote for the EU parliament. The fact that you didn't vote doesn't make them unelected. The EU commission is appointed by the individual governments, they are essentially voted indirectly in the national election, you vote Tory and the Tories will select their cabinet and other positions such as the EU commissioner. You don't vote for them directly, but it is still a democratic process. The final significant body is the council of the EU which consists of the leaders of each country or an elected minister for that position, essentially also elected by your national elections. There are of course many other people employed as civil servants for the EU and just like the British civil service they are not elected, they are merely the people who do the day to day real work as instructed by the elected parliament. So this notion of unelected people telling us what to do is a pure myth.
Both points have been discussed many time here, but the fact that they still haven't sunk in shows that you are either unwilling to listen to reasoned arguments and research the truth behind the fake news or just too stupid to understand!
As for abuse of expenses and wastage, yes that's a problem, but its a problem that could be addressed by reform. Also, if you believe the situation in Westminster is any better, then you really are very naive! The reality is, such expenses may seem like quite a lot of money on their own, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, its pretty much insignificant. The real cost of UK membership of the EU, after rebates, subsidies and return investments (so not the £350M on the side of the bus), it is also a pretty insignificant amount compared against the NHS budget or defense spending. What we get out of the EU through the customs union is worth far more than the relatively small fee which it costs us.
09 November 2018, 03:19 PM
#3652
Scooby Senior
The British public has really been sold on the whole anti-EU rhetoric for decades. George Osborn stated a couple of weeks ago that one of his biggest regrets was going along with the whole blame the EU policy in the years running up to the referendum.
There is a massive amount of misinformation and outright lies been put out, be it bendy bananas, fishing quotas, farming subsidies or unelected Brussels. Both the press and the British government (either side) have continually blamed the EU for anything perceived to be bad, as if the UK had no input in those decisions, whilst at the same time taking credit for all the good things that the EU does as if it were there decision alone and not forced on them by the EU!
We are one of the few countries in the EU that has an outright vito on many important decisions. The EU could never force anything onto us that we really didn't want because we could always vito it. In reality, its never the EU forcing us to do something and more often the UK forcing others to confirm to what we want. The UK, France and Germany, and to a lesser extent Italy, as the biggest EU partners have shaped the EU into what works best for them and their economies. If you have a genuine complain about the EU, then you have to complain that it is because the UK wanted it that way because the UK has always been complicit in defining the rules! Of all the EU members, the UK has by far the best deal with many opt-outs and rebates and before the referendum they were even willing to give us more!
The EU is really not the bad guy that its been made out to be, and anything bad about the EU is our own fault and should have been up to us to fix it!
There is a massive amount of misinformation and outright lies been put out, be it bendy bananas, fishing quotas, farming subsidies or unelected Brussels. Both the press and the British government (either side) have continually blamed the EU for anything perceived to be bad, as if the UK had no input in those decisions, whilst at the same time taking credit for all the good things that the EU does as if it were there decision alone and not forced on them by the EU!
We are one of the few countries in the EU that has an outright vito on many important decisions. The EU could never force anything onto us that we really didn't want because we could always vito it. In reality, its never the EU forcing us to do something and more often the UK forcing others to confirm to what we want. The UK, France and Germany, and to a lesser extent Italy, as the biggest EU partners have shaped the EU into what works best for them and their economies. If you have a genuine complain about the EU, then you have to complain that it is because the UK wanted it that way because the UK has always been complicit in defining the rules! Of all the EU members, the UK has by far the best deal with many opt-outs and rebates and before the referendum they were even willing to give us more!
The EU is really not the bad guy that its been made out to be, and anything bad about the EU is our own fault and should have been up to us to fix it!
09 November 2018, 05:03 PM
#3653
Scooby Senior
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46155403
Boris Johnson's brother has now resigned from government and is calling for a second referendum because what is on offer is far from what was promised in the original referendum!
Its time to knock this Brexit farce on the head!
Boris Johnson's brother has now resigned from government and is calling for a second referendum because what is on offer is far from what was promised in the original referendum!
Its time to knock this Brexit farce on the head!
09 November 2018, 06:11 PM
#3654
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46155403
Boris Johnson's brother has now resigned from government and is calling for a second referendum because what is on offer is far from what was promised in the original referendum!
Its time to knock this Brexit farce on the head!
Boris Johnson's brother has now resigned from government and is calling for a second referendum because what is on offer is far from what was promised in the original referendum!
Its time to knock this Brexit farce on the head!
The only people calling for a second referendum are 'remainers' if leavers starting calling for a second vote, then the idea would be more credible. Still a completely terrible idea though.
09 November 2018, 11:15 PM
#3655
I'm not sure why you're so against a second referendum, Martin. The country is horribly divided anyway, wouldn't it be better to have a sound economy and be divided than one in serious decline? That sort of vacuum is what leads to extremes getting in to power. If we ignore history, are we not doomed to repeat it?
09 November 2018, 11:24 PM
#3656
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I'm not sure why you're so against a second referendum, Martin. The country is horribly divided anyway, wouldn't it be better to have a sound economy and be divided than one in serious decline? That sort of vacuum is what leads to extremes getting in to power. If we ignore history, are we not doomed to repeat it?
Can you imagine a second vote with a narrow remain majority? Utter chaos would ensue.
I find a lot of Brexiteers unbearable now, with their fantasy sense of injustice. Can you imagine how it would be if they had a real injustice to get their teeth into.
Besides all of that, we've had a vote, we knew what was at stake, and we had a result. There's no way back from that.
10 November 2018, 03:55 AM
#3657
It would risk tearing this country apart and unleashing dark extremist forces.
Can you imagine a second vote with a narrow remain majority? Utter chaos would ensue.
I find a lot of Brexiteers unbearable now, with their fantasy sense of injustice. Can you imagine how it would be if they had a real injustice to get their teeth into.
Besides all of that, we've had a vote, we knew what was at stake, and we had a result. There's no way back from that.
Can you imagine a second vote with a narrow remain majority? Utter chaos would ensue.
I find a lot of Brexiteers unbearable now, with their fantasy sense of injustice. Can you imagine how it would be if they had a real injustice to get their teeth into.
Besides all of that, we've had a vote, we knew what was at stake, and we had a result. There's no way back from that.
Corbyn understands that too. He says we must learn why the people voted to leave.
10 November 2018, 11:45 AM
#3659
By the 3rd vote, hopefully the people organizing the damn thing will have realized that any plebiscite on implementation of a major constitutional change should require a two-thirds or three-quarters majority for it to be considered valid, like it would in Germany, the USA, etc.
