Scripture vs. the facts.
14 February 2016, 10:06 PM
#121
That's pretty much it (to my mind anyway).
I personally find that a very similar statement can be applied to a lot of atheists, they aren't intelligent enough to actually formulate a proper argument so they default back to the so called 'facts and logic'. Without ever actually addressing the point.
I personally find that a very similar statement can be applied to a lot of atheists, they aren't intelligent enough to actually formulate a proper argument so they default back to the so called 'facts and logic'. Without ever actually addressing the point.
I sometimes struggle with articulating myself, more so now English has become more of a second language to me.
I'm not an atheist, I just don't believe in religion, I'm more of a mother nature kind of guy, I'm sure there is probably a term for it that I'm not aware of.
Again education does not equal intelligence, if it did there would be no stupid people in this world.
14 February 2016, 10:09 PM
#122
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Ok I see where you're coming from.
I sometimes struggle with articulating myself, more so now English has become more of a second language to me.
I'm not an atheist, I just don't believe in religion, I'm more of a mother nature kind of guy, I'm sure there is probably a term for it that I'm not aware of.
Again education does not equal intelligence, if it did there would be no stupid people in this world.
I sometimes struggle with articulating myself, more so now English has become more of a second language to me.
I'm not an atheist, I just don't believe in religion, I'm more of a mother nature kind of guy, I'm sure there is probably a term for it that I'm not aware of.
Again education does not equal intelligence, if it did there would be no stupid people in this world.
15 February 2016, 08:07 AM
#124
Didn't know Paben was an army lad. Although a soldier has to conform, but is the purpose for this conforming an earthy one or an airy-fairy one?
'Brainwashed' symptom alone isn't sufficient to de-intellectualise someone. If that was the case, what if someone is brainwashed with the so-called 'intellect' itself? Hm?
'Brainwashed' symptom alone isn't sufficient to de-intellectualise someone. If that was the case, what if someone is brainwashed with the so-called 'intellect' itself? Hm?
Correct, gold star, pat on the backm move to the top of the class.
That's exactly what people are brainwashed with, higher up the scale you go the bigger the reward, it's no different to giving peanuts to monkeys.
15 February 2016, 08:24 AM
#125
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Ok I see where you're coming from.
I sometimes struggle with articulating myself, more so now English has become more of a second language to me.
I'm not an atheist, I just don't believe in religion, I'm more of a mother nature kind of guy, I'm sure there is probably a term for it that I'm not aware of.
Again education does not equal intelligence, if it did there would be no stupid people in this world.
I sometimes struggle with articulating myself, more so now English has become more of a second language to me.
I'm not an atheist, I just don't believe in religion, I'm more of a mother nature kind of guy, I'm sure there is probably a term for it that I'm not aware of.
Again education does not equal intelligence, if it did there would be no stupid people in this world.
Agreed on the point about education and intelligence though. Some of the stupidest things I've ever seen have been performed by highly educated people.
15 February 2016, 09:29 AM
#126
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Wisdom, as Spurgeon defined it, is the "right use of knowledge". I'd agree with this, but then I agree with most of which Spurgeon has written. I think and feel that a particularly wise person has innate intelligence, has had this developed through educational training and has learnt to apply this couplet effectively. I feel for the naturally bright who struggle to articulate their thoughts owing to a lack of training; I'm frustrated by the false confidence of those educated, but lacking in flare; I'm disappointed with those who decline the works of others and I'm inspired by those with innate gifts who've acquired the education to draw them out and who've completed the reading necessary to enable them to stand on the shoulders of giants.
Last edited by JTaylor; 15 February 2016 at 11:59 AM.
15 February 2016, 09:43 AM
#127
I'd agree with that to a degree, but add some words of caution.
It's also easy for a bright mind to become clouded with the thoughts of others and be steered away from enlightenment.
No need to stand on the shoulders of others no matter how high one is elevated you'll never achieve nirvana with a clouded mind.
It's also easy for a bright mind to become clouded with the thoughts of others and be steered away from enlightenment.
No need to stand on the shoulders of others no matter how high one is elevated you'll never achieve nirvana with a clouded mind.
15 February 2016, 10:15 AM
#128
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my older brother was educated at St Pauls School (London) - usually in the top 3 academic schools in the country
in his academic profession he was, at one time in, in the top 20 people in the world
he is imo, of extremely limited intelligence
in his academic profession he was, at one time in, in the top 20 people in the world
he is imo, of extremely limited intelligence
15 February 2016, 10:22 AM
#129
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That's exactly what people are brainwashed with, higher up the scale you go the bigger the reward, it's no different to giving peanuts to monkeys.
And............
Wisdom, as Spurgeon defined it, is the "right use of knowledge". I'd agree with this, but then I agree with most of which Spurgeon has written. I think and feel that a particularly wise person has innate intelligence, has had this developed through educational training and has learnt to apply this couplet effectively. I feel for the naturally bright who struggle to articulate their thoughts owing to a lack of training; I'm frustrated by the false confidence of those educated, but lacking in flare; I'm disappointed with those who decline the works of others and I'm inspired by those with innate gifts who've acquired the education to draw it out and who've completed the reading necessary to enable them to stand on the shoulders of giants.
15 February 2016, 10:30 AM
#130
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I'd agree with that to a degree, but add some words of caution.
It's also easy for a bright mind to become clouded with the thoughts of others and be steered away from enlightenment.
No need to stand on the shoulders of others no matter how high one is elevated you'll never achieve nirvana with a clouded mind.
It's also easy for a bright mind to become clouded with the thoughts of others and be steered away from enlightenment.
No need to stand on the shoulders of others no matter how high one is elevated you'll never achieve nirvana with a clouded mind.
15 February 2016, 10:33 AM
#131
It is however a double edged sword in matters of life and the universe and should be viewed with caution, many a so called scholar failed to find the answers they were looking for, so to continue in the same vein is folly and indeed many were led astray by those with vested interests that went before them.
Truly bright minds lead the way, they do not follow.
15 February 2016, 10:40 AM
#132
I think we've found our bone of contention. "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants," said Isaac Newton. If humanity had adopted your fallacy, we'd see no further than the end of our nose. Original thoughts might be original, but it doesn't make them right. Anyway, I don't want to take you off your chosen path, let me know if you invent the wheel.
You have to realise in all of this we are but men at the end of the day, and this is what you will be judged on if the day ever comes.
You cannot espouse one point of view and then submit to the failings of the flesh.
I get that you're a mind in turmoil, but you can't claim to have achieved something when you clearly haven't, better to admit that you are still a work in progress.
15 February 2016, 10:48 AM
#133
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I view education as a bit of a necessary evil, in that we all need a certain amount of it to be able to communicate and get on in a world that is based around it.
It is however a double edged sword in matters of life and the universe and should be viewed with caution, many a so called scholar failed to find the answers they were looking for, so to continue in the same vein is folly and indeed many were led astray by those with vested interests that went before them.
Truly bright minds lead the way, they do not follow.
It is however a double edged sword in matters of life and the universe and should be viewed with caution, many a so called scholar failed to find the answers they were looking for, so to continue in the same vein is folly and indeed many were led astray by those with vested interests that went before them.
Truly bright minds lead the way, they do not follow.
Truly bright minds may follow selectively, not blindly. If they lead, they'll lead where, when and as appropriate. That's where their simple common sense kicks in. True minds also know their S.W.O.T. and keep improving / revising it; in order to become truly learned. They don't chuck spanners all over, in a kamikaze way.
Last edited by Turbohot; 15 February 2016 at 12:06 PM. Reason: typo
15 February 2016, 10:49 AM
#134
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I have obviously upset you and for that I am truly sorry, it's not my intention.
You have to realise in all of this we are but men at the end of the day, and this is what you will be judged on if the day ever comes.
You cannot espouse one point of view and then submit to the failings of the flesh.
I get that you're a mind in turmoil, but you can't claim to have achieved something when you clearly haven't, better to admit that you are still a work in progress.
You have to realise in all of this we are but men at the end of the day, and this is what you will be judged on if the day ever comes.
You cannot espouse one point of view and then submit to the failings of the flesh.
I get that you're a mind in turmoil, but you can't claim to have achieved something when you clearly haven't, better to admit that you are still a work in progress.
Last edited by JTaylor; 15 February 2016 at 10:51 AM.
15 February 2016, 11:19 AM
#135
Turbohot;11796785]Thank you, but why do you have to patronise, Ditch? You do sound condescending sometimes, as Neil pointed out in relation to James. Why is that?
Can you please elaborate on this^? It's making least sense, relationally. Thanks.
15 February 2016, 11:35 AM
#137
You haven't upset me, Ditch, I just disagree with you on your claim that "there's no need to stand on the shoulders of others". I dispute your points in paragraphs two and three and we can discuss those further if you so choose. Finally, I am not a mind in turmoil and I'd be grateful if you'd tell me what I have claimed to have achieved.
For someone that's not in turmoil you sure come across as though you are, you appear to be searching for something, like so many others you feel as though you have found that in Jesus. I'm happy for you.
Enlightenment won't be found in the teachings or musings of others, read as much as you like, you'll only ever be well read, and yes you may be able to articulate those teachings and musings, quote and regurgitate them, seek solace in them until you become aligned with their thought process, at which point, YOU no longer exist.
15 February 2016, 11:35 AM
#138
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You'll need to read it again and have a think about it, not being condescending, need a dedicated smily for that.
15 February 2016, 11:38 AM
#139
Yes, this sort is sometimes spotted in academia. This attribute can be named as the Tunnel Vision syndrome.
I agree but not entirely.
Truly bright minds may follow selectively, not blindly. If they lead, they'll lead where, when and as appropriate. That's where there simple common sense kicks in. True minds also know their S.W.O.T. and keep improving / revising it; in order to become truly learned. They don't chuck spanners all over, in a kamikaze way.
I agree but not entirely.
Truly bright minds may follow selectively, not blindly. If they lead, they'll lead where, when and as appropriate. That's where there simple common sense kicks in. True minds also know their S.W.O.T. and keep improving / revising it; in order to become truly learned. They don't chuck spanners all over, in a kamikaze way.
15 February 2016, 11:44 AM
#140
Not read it all yet so not sure what exactly contained inside and if it aligns exactly with what I'm getting at, but just thought I'd post it before I go off and read it and have a look for some more info.
Scratch that, it's not what I'm looking for.
Scratch that, it's not what I'm looking for.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 15 February 2016 at 11:47 AM.
15 February 2016, 11:50 AM
#141
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I like how you removed the Newton quote.*
For someone that's not in turmoil you sure come across as though you are, you appear to be searching for something, like so many others you feel as though you have found that in Jesus. I'm happy for you.
Enlightenment won't be found in the teachings or musings of others, read as much as you like, you'll only ever be well read, and yes you may be able to articulate those teachings and musings, quote and regurgitate them, seek solace in them until you become aligned with their thought process, at which point, YOU no longer exist.
For someone that's not in turmoil you sure come across as though you are, you appear to be searching for something, like so many others you feel as though you have found that in Jesus. I'm happy for you.
Enlightenment won't be found in the teachings or musings of others, read as much as you like, you'll only ever be well read, and yes you may be able to articulate those teachings and musings, quote and regurgitate them, seek solace in them until you become aligned with their thought process, at which point, YOU no longer exist.
As for the rest of your post, well I gave my life to Jesus almost half a decade ago, so in a sense your final point is a salient one.
Lastly, salvation isn't achieved by the saved, it is a gift from the Saviour. Amazing Grace!
15 February 2016, 11:51 AM
#142
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15 February 2016, 11:52 AM
#143
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15 February 2016, 12:12 PM
#144
Ok here we go, fire with fire and all that, I'll come at you from an angle or should that be angel 
you'll understand.
http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_cave.htm
Still not what I was looking for, but it will do for now, it's a bloody minefield out there ont tinternet.
you'll understand. http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_cave.htm
Still not what I was looking for, but it will do for now, it's a bloody minefield out there ont tinternet.
15 February 2016, 12:20 PM
#146
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May I still request you to enlighten on that paragraph involving peanuts and monkey business, Ditch? Do it when you have time. I look forward to your explanation.
15 February 2016, 12:29 PM
#147
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Ok here we go, fire with fire and all that, I'll come at you from an angle or should that be angel you'll understand.
http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_cave.htm
Still not what I was looking for, but it will do for now, it's a bloody minefield out there ont tinternet.
you'll understand. http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_cave.htm
Still not what I was looking for, but it will do for now, it's a bloody minefield out there ont tinternet.
Come on, James! Fight fire with fire! This thread is on another level now!
15 February 2016, 12:30 PM
#148
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Ok here we go, fire with fire and all that, I'll come at you from an angle or should that be angel you'll understand.
http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_cave.htm
Still not what I was looking for, but it will do for now, it's a bloody minefield out there ont tinternet.
you'll understand. http://www.scandalon.co.uk/philosophy/plato_cave.htm
Still not what I was looking for, but it will do for now, it's a bloody minefield out there ont tinternet.
https://www.scoobynet.com/924322-the...l#post10477982
15 February 2016, 12:54 PM
#149
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Wisdom, as Spurgeon defined it, is the "right use of knowledge". I'd agree with this, but then I agree with most of which Spurgeon has written. I think and feel that a particularly wise person has innate intelligence, has had this developed through educational training and has learnt to apply this couplet effectively. I feel for the naturally bright who struggle to articulate their thoughts owing to a lack of training; I'm frustrated by the false confidence of those educated, but lacking in flare; I'm disappointed with those who decline the works of others and I'm inspired by those with innate gifts who've acquired the education to draw them out and who've completed the reading necessary to enable them to stand on the shoulders of giants.
The false confidence of the educated is something I find deeply irritating. It's been a long standing argument at work, a lot of our graduates think they're all that because they have degrees when in reality the apprentices are far better technicians/engineers.
15 February 2016, 02:03 PM
#150
Not sure what your point is, but we've done Plato's Cave on here before.
https://www.scoobynet.com/924322-the...l#post10477982
https://www.scoobynet.com/924322-the...l#post10477982
And we digress, I was more aiming towards his connection with the formation of modern christian beliefs, Platonism, neoplatonism.