Markus

First things first, this is going to be a long one, so grab a cuppa.

Are you sitting comfortably?

Then I'll begin...


I got the (infamous?) blackbeast on April 21st 2000. It was a modified jap import, which some nice 16 inch mim "by speedline" five spoke wheels, which, to this day I still like.

It also came with standard 2-pot brakes and standard discs and pads.

As well all know, the 2-pots don't exactly set the world on fire, well, not unless you abuse the pads

When i got the car serviced i found that the pads and discs were dead, so what to do? well, I'd been toying with the idea of a set of STi 4-pots, I knew they would fit under the wheels, but at the time money was a tad tight (when isn't it? ) so I decided to go for uprated pads and discs, mainly as they were slightly cheaper than OEM parts, but also uprated braking is 'A Good Thing'. So I got a set of EBC Greenstuff pads, Wilwood drilled and vented discs, and braided hoses. This made a nice difference to the car, it now actually stopped!

However, I wanted more from my brakes. I knew that I was going to modify the car some more, and thus any power increases would mean the brakes would be under more abuse, umm, sorry strain so I decided to think about upgrading them. Thus the story really begins.

having 16 inch wheels can really limit what you can do with regards to brake upgrades.

So, what options were open to me? well let's see:

Subaru 4-pots

Hi Spec, Godspeed, KAD, or other big brake kits for 16 inch wheels

AP Racing 4-pot kit.


The whole theory I'd come up with was that I wanted a kit that I'd never need to upgrade from, ok, a holy grail it might be, but possible? that's what I wanted to find out.

So, what to do? well, a group buy on the Hi Spec kit was going on and it was tempting, but cash was tight. Was also tempted by the AP kit as we all know that AP's are good, plus the 4-pot kit is designed to fit under 16 inch wheels, very tempting indeed.

Then I happened, quite how I can't remember, probably a post by scoobymike on one of my threads, upon the Movit website, and I was gobsmacked. Porsche brakes on a scooby, now there is something novel. I was interested and dropped them a quick email, and I was referred to Richard Jeal at JAS Traction, the UK distributor for movit.

A few emails later and Richard had sent me details on the kits they did, seems that they would do one for 16 inch wheels, only problem is that you'd need spacers as the callipers would be too wide for the wheels. Hmm, spacers. I'd heard about spacers and more or less everyone said that you should not use spacers on a scoob, so at that point I told Richard my fears and said I'd think about it as I was unsure about spacers.

The next thing I did was to talk to a few people about prices for AP 4-pot kits, got some good prices, plus also got the AP calliper profile, as I was not sure if the AP kit would fit under the wheels, ok it said 16 inch wheels, but we're talking suabaru standard wheels here, and mine are not standard subaru 16 inchers. So got the profile, tried it, and alas, it was no go, would not fit. I was gutted.

It was at this time I started to consider bigger wheels. Even though I liked my wheels, a set of 17 inch wheels would be good, plus it would also help out on the brake upgrade front. So after a bit of looking about I plumped for a set of 17 inch wheels from a MY01 impreza, because I liked the design.

So, armed with a set of 17 inch wheels my thoughts turned back to brakes. Right, AP 4-pots would fit, as would 6-pots, but nearly everyone was using AP's and I wanted to be a bit different. I'm not knocking AP kit, it's great, we all know that, but I wanted to be different, hell, any of you seen my car? not exactly subtle is it? so needed to keep up the unsubtle side of things

What to do? Hi Spec monster kit? Godspeed big brake kit? hmmmm. Then I remembered movit, ahh, yes, Porsche brakes.

So emailed Richard again, to see what the options were with 17 inch wheels. Yup they did a kit, I was tempted, asked more questions then though "**** it, go for it!" so decided to go for the '4m5' kit, which comprises of:

Porsche 996 Carrera 4-piston-aluminium MONOBLOCK callipers,
Porsche 993 bi-turbo rotors, 322 x 32 mm vented and cast-in holes
Porsche 996 Carrera genuine pad set for street use custom adapters for a.m. callipers, CNC machined from highest grade steel alloy customer brake bells for a.m. rotors, CNC machined from highest grade aluminium alloy custom stainless steel coated PTFE lines for front & rear

However about an hour after this I changed my mind, I wanted more, so I went for the '4m6' kit, which uses the same rotors, but the callipers and pads are from the 911 GT3.

Price? £1762.50 inc VAT, not cheap but should be worth it.

I then went off to the USA for a few weeks, which was good, as it would take my mind off waiting for the brakes to turn up.

[Edited by Markus - 3/18/2002 12:33:35 PM]

[Edited by Markus - 3/18/2002 12:39:04 PM]

Markus

fast forward a few weeks...

Right, back in the UK, the brakes have turned up. Matt Barnes has also decided to go for the same kit as well. He goes to get his fitted and there is a problem (full story here

Basically the calipers are just too damn wide to fit under the MY01 wheels. So what now? well as the other thread states the solutions open to Matt and I were:

Get a refund on the movit kit and get another kit, eg; AP 6-pots
Whilst this appealed to me, I really wanted the movit's, they went along with my 'never need to upgrade' theory, plus they looked and I was told, performed very well. Though for certain reasons (see next 'option') AP's might be a better bet

Keep the movit kit and fit spacers
Spacers, a phrase that strikes fear into subaru owners everywhere, to me it seems this causes as much fear as being told you have piston slap (not making light of anyone in this position so please don't take offence). I could fit spacers to allow the calliper to fit. I posted up about this and the general consensus was, "don't do it!" spacers are "A Bad Thing". Though some said different.
Apart from changing the offset of the wheel they would put more strain on the hub, bearings and possibly suspension. plus they could detrimentally effect the handling, something I'd just sorted out and did not want to muck up. so, onto the final option.

Keep the movit kit and change the wheels
I'd got the MY01 wheels about 2 weeks prior to this problem coming up. i liked the MY01 wheels, which is why I got them, and I was not really in the mood to even consider the thought of changing them, but with the spacer 'issue' and my desire to have the movits, a change of wheels might be the only sensible choice. But what to get? that's the tricky thing. the whole problem is down to the design of the wheel. Just getting a wheel with lower offset and bigger width does not mean the calliper would fit. This was the problem, no-one really knew what wheels would and would not fit. ETA BETA did a wheel which should fit but I was not really open to fitting new wheels. i spoke to a few people who suggest other wheels that might fit. STi Type UK wheels might fit, as would the new wheels Prodrive developed for the STi Type UK, but this was a cost I did not really want.


So, what did I do? well, foolish as I might be I decided to have another chat with Geoff and Richard, and they eased my fears and I decided to keep with the movits and get spacers fitted. So, I waited a while for the spacers and new bolts, to turn up, which they did. and on Saturday 16th March 2002, I drove up to Jeal & Sons to see Geoff and get the brakes fitted.

So, here we are, with the car sitting on it's MY01 wheels, with 15mm spacers per wheel, and a movit 4m6 brake kit.

I'm still bedding in the pads as Geoff stressed this is critical, and so not sure how good they actually are. At this moment they seem better than the old setup, but give me a week or so and they should be bedded in and I'll know for sure.

I've been for a drive on some roads I know, the same roads I used to see what the four wheel alignment, bumpsteer and anti-lift kit, had actually done to the car, so I know how it should handle. Suffice to say I don't think the spacers have changed anything, the car still handles as well as it did before the fitting, and it might be mental but it actually seems to handle a bit better, which might be due to the 30mm wider track it now has.

All in all I'm happy, and hopefully will be happier once the pads are bedded in and the brakes reach their full potential.

The other noteworthy thing is that the new callipers are much lighter (half to three quarters lighter) than the old 2-pots, and the discs are not much heavier than the old ones, so all in all the new kit is lighter than the old, and this should help to ease the stresses on suspension and hub components, maybe.

Pictures can be found here

Any questions? post here, or email me (see my profile)

Thanks to
Whoever first told me about movit (scoobymike probably!)

Richard Jeal at JAS Traction - For supplying the kit to me, and putting up with the constant and nigh on never ending stream of emails and phone calls with many very silly and odd questions about the brakes. Also, for feeling as gutted as me when things did not go to plan. We got there in the end Richard.

Geoff Jeal at Jeal and Sons - For fitting the kit, and also putting up with many emails and phone calls, though not as many as Richard, plus easing my fears about spacers. Thanks for fitting me in, I know it was not what you needed at the time, but I really appreciate it.

Graham at GDA Sports Cars - For supplying the MY01 wheels

Everyone at Setyres - For supplying the tyres for the MY01 wheels.

Everyone who gave me information and pricing on other brake kits. You know who you are! Thanks!

Everyone who supported me when things were not going to plan, you know who you are. Now instead of putting up with complaining about the kit not being fitted, you are going to have to put up with me going on and on and on and on... about them being fitted. You have been warned

And in the words of Guns n Roses, from the song 'Get in the Ring'

And to all those opposed? hmmmm well...

Markus

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[Edited by Markus - 3/18/2002 12:36:49 PM]

scoobymike

Hmm, is this the comeback of Shakespear?
Nice write up, almost comparable to my MLR story
It's good to see that you withstood all the doubters to convince yourself of the quality of this product.

Happy Movit braking

Mike

Hoppy

Markus, I think you are a twerp for not just fitting a set of superb and proven APR brakes, but...

It's good to have choices and competition, and I salute your determination. I don't know why I have not posted this before, but it has just occured to me that I think I have a set of wheels that might do the trick without spacers.

My track day wheels are by KN Motorsport, from Scoobysport. They are five-spoke design and look very similar to the classic five-spoke standard Impreza wheels, pre MY00. Weight just 8.5 Kg. Pics on Scoobysport site.

The thing is, when fitted over my 6-pot APR brakes, I can fit my fingers comfortably between the spokes and calipers. How fat are my fingers? Well, at least 15mm.

If you or anyone else wants to see if they fit over your huge calipers, you're welcome to take one to try. I'm in Peterborough, Cambs - only a mile off the A1M.

Any help?

Richard.

Markus

Mike,
Well I aim to please thought I'd try and copy the master of the 'movit story'

Hoppy,
yup, I'm a twerp! and happy to be one
The wheel offer sounds tempting and I might take you up on it. I'm planning on trying to work out an application chart for the movits, so I can find out what wheels will fit with and without spacers. Then if anyone wants to use movit's then they know what wheels they would need.

dowser

Markus

I pick up my new wheels this week About £115 each (here in Switzerland) I guess. Will let you know more later!

Regards
Richard

[Edited by dowser - 3/19/2002 11:40:21 AM]

Markus

Richard,
Thanks mate, let me know how things go.

matt b

It seems a shame to have to change alloys when changing the disc offset will completely solve the problem. Since returning my movit kit ive been informed that the bells supplied with the kit place the disc in exactly the same place as the standards.Bearing in mind that these callipers are 160mm in width that seems a pritty ilogical set-up to me.
i dont know if the standard set-up means there is a 0mm offset but Ian Godney informs me that his ap disc set-up builds a 5mm offset in as standard. dont know if ap does the same with their bells.

Ian said that a 10-15mm offset would be an easy thing to do so that would complete negate the need for spacers. The quality of his work is obviously very high.
Unfortunately he seems to be far too busy to be currently able to do the work (couldn't get him to reply to my e-mails). thats the downside of dealing with someone with a successful business i suppose.
Ian though quoted me £425 to make up the brackets and bells so that these puppies go straight on.

My ap 6 pots are arriving today so im now taken care of. Managed to get them for a sub £1600 price. e-mail me off-line if anybody wants details. Anyway i cant wait (cheers for all the advice Hoppy)

Thought long and hard about this next bit and dont want to spoil your happiness Markus but what i will say for anybody else who wants to be different is that my recent enquiries with a porsche dealer (obviously i had to tell porkies about why i wanted the parts) have established that a pair of 911 GT3 callipers and a set of 993 bi-turbo discs (disc and bell) 322x32mm will set you back considerably less than £1700 (try halfing that). the dealer i spoke to even gave me 20% discount. Add in the £450 price that Ian quoted me and you can get this kit with the right offset and no need for spacers for considerably less than the movit price.
Regards

Markus

Matt,
no probs mate, in the end it's helping out us scooby owners.

Chuckster did mention a while back about getting the calipers, pads, and rotors from a Porsche dealer, then getting someone like Hi Spec or Godspeed to make the mounting bracket and it could work out cheaper than the movit kit. Only downside is the actually being bothered to do it. guess it depends how much you're willing to spend, both in time and money.

To be honest, I'm a right lazy git, which is why I've done it the way I have.

Glad to hear you have got some decent brakes, the AP sixes are awesome and you will love them.

matt b

Phew- glad to hear that Markus. You're right it would be a hassle. Personally i love a good project but i got to the point where i was like "I WANT MY BRAKES SORTED NOW."
Saw your piccies- looks awesome.

Blackhearse

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[Edited by Blackhearse - 3/19/2002 12:57:54 PM]

Markus

Matt,
trust me I know how you feel, having gone through the same problems as you, well, apart from the pain of going up and having them fitted and seeing them (and drooling? ) and then finding the wheels did not fit and having to have the kit removed. Can't have been pleasant.

Main thing is that I've got them now, so I'm happy and I want to try and help out anyone else who wants something a bit different.

It is true that being different is a problem

Still, someone had to do it, so why not me!

Post some pics of the AP's when you have them fitted. curious to see what they look like.

Adam M

I personally like the idea of doing it the prsche way.

It also means you get to have porsche a known brand written on your calipers rather than movit, who I believe to be trading on someone elses expertise!

I still think it would be easier for markus to have just taken the aps. You do seem to think hat the movits give you your holy grail whereas you never use the term in relation to the aps.

For my purposes I cannot imagine having better brakes as they are more powerful than the traction can handle.

Markus

You're right about the porsche route, having porsche on the calipers would look rather cool.

with regards to the holy grail, I'd probably be saying the same thing about the AP's if I'd gone for them, and maybe I should have. Not slagging off AP's they are very, very good, I just wanted to be different.

Hoppy

Markus, if you're doing the karting at Milton Keynes on 14th April, I could bring a wheel along to try.

Richard.

Markus

Richard,
not doing the karing.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

Matt , I have answered all you emails , have you not had them ? my fingers were bleeding with all the questions Ian

matt b

Woe is me as my ap's didn't turn up today. In fact ap have decided to suddenly change their mind and not have any 6pot scoob kits in stock at all at the mo. so ive been told I'll have to wait at least a month.I give up.
Permission for upper lip to tremble?


Ian
No i havent got your e-mails. i got one from you at the beginning giving me a rough quote and one you thought had come from Markus with a calliper measurement attachment.Thats been it. shall we try again?
If from time of receipt of a porker caliper and disc you can make up a set of bells and brackets within say a month then my wonga has your name on it. Ok so here we go again- YHM.
Post on this thread mate to say YHM so i can check whether or not we have a problem
cheers matt

Hoppy

Ian, I've also mailed you twice. No reply. I only want to give you some money I'll send it again now.

Richard

Hoppy

Markus, shame you're not doing the karting. I was looking forward to out-braking you into the hairpins

If anyone else has these Movit/Porshe monster thingies and is doing the karting, lemme know and I'll bring a wheel for you to offer up. I'll even bring me jack and torque wrench if there's a pint in it

Richard.

Markus

Richard,
think that's one of the problems, I don't know anyone else in the UK with a scoob and the movit system, though I'm happy to be proved wrong.

etam

Hi there, nice upgrade! What about the rear brake? next? I heard that it is not good to just leave the rear alone...or did you adjust the brake proportion valve?

Ernest

Markus

Can't do the rears, well, not with a movit kit as I've only got sliding calipers on the rear and not 2-pots. maybe on the next car I'll go for the full movit setup!

Subarussian

Hi Markus

Is there a sequel Are you happy with your brakes? What are they like on the road / track?

Markus

Well, here's an update, as you asked so nicely.

The brakes are excellent! I've only used them on the road, but have popped over to europe and given them a bit of a pasting (repeated stops from 130mph) and no fade at all. I love em to bits.

Maybe one day I'll try them on track, but probably not. All in all, I'm happy.