AP Racing 4-pots or 6-pots, or Movit kit?
02 January 2002, 09:38 AM
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Right,
I will be getting 17 inch wheels (probably MY01 wheels as I like the design)
As you know I've been pondering about the brakes.
here's what I've got at the moment (we're talking front only here - will cover rears on seperate thread)
EBC Greenstuff pads
braided hoses
wilwood drilled and vented discs.
Standard MY94 calipers (2 pot?)
The greens and discs seem a lot better than the OEM stuff, but I want more, hence the big brake thing.
I've narrowed things down to three kits, they are.
AP Racing 4-pot = circa £1600
AP Racing 6-pot = circa £1700
Movit Porsche setup (info here) = circa £1500
So the movit setup is the cheapest, and it does look very nice, but I'm worried about availability of spares, eg, discs and pads, I'm told that discs should not be an issue as unless I'm some kinda trackday star, and I am not, then, I'm told the discs should take a lot of my abuse, but I'm not sure, individuailty is nice, but could prove expensive.
Thus I really think the AP's are the way to go, but 4 or 6????
How much heavier are the 6's compared to 4s? would I need better suspension to cope with the weight?
I'm very tempted by the 6's as they are only a few hundred quid more than the 4's but is it worth it?
what are the pro's and cons of a 4 vs 6 setup (pad choice slightly more limited on 6's??)
Sorry for the daft questions, but I WILL be getting one of these kits, just want to see what people think.
I will be getting 17 inch wheels (probably MY01 wheels as I like the design)
As you know I've been pondering about the brakes.
here's what I've got at the moment (we're talking front only here - will cover rears on seperate thread)
EBC Greenstuff pads
braided hoses
wilwood drilled and vented discs.
Standard MY94 calipers (2 pot?)
The greens and discs seem a lot better than the OEM stuff, but I want more, hence the big brake thing.
I've narrowed things down to three kits, they are.
AP Racing 4-pot = circa £1600
AP Racing 6-pot = circa £1700
Movit Porsche setup (info here) = circa £1500
So the movit setup is the cheapest, and it does look very nice, but I'm worried about availability of spares, eg, discs and pads, I'm told that discs should not be an issue as unless I'm some kinda trackday star, and I am not, then, I'm told the discs should take a lot of my abuse, but I'm not sure, individuailty is nice, but could prove expensive.
Thus I really think the AP's are the way to go, but 4 or 6????
How much heavier are the 6's compared to 4s? would I need better suspension to cope with the weight?
I'm very tempted by the 6's as they are only a few hundred quid more than the 4's but is it worth it?
what are the pro's and cons of a 4 vs 6 setup (pad choice slightly more limited on 6's??)
Sorry for the daft questions, but I WILL be getting one of these kits, just want to see what people think.
02 January 2002, 10:34 AM
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I didn't know that finding parts for Porkers is difficult in the UK. You can use all the pads designed for the Porker callipers so I think a wider choice is impossible. Regarding disc this isn't a problem at all. You already know the spec of those discs so this are of superior quality which will give you a longer life anyway. You have an official importer for Movit with Jaz Traction which have a good reputation.
BTW my mate will swap his Alcon kit for the Movit kit as he found out that they're superior regarding fading, modulation and wear. The other reason is the wide availability for parts compared to the other kits.
The same kit will be fitted on an EVO VII which will be used for the Nuerburgring 24h hours race this year.
This discussions have been done to death now, can't count the mails people send me offline. Check the threads on the Lancer Forum, it's full of information. I've also done a comparison between the Movit kit and the AP 6 pot which gave interesting results. This can also be found in the same forum in the "AP group buy" topic.
I could offer a group buy but seeing how sceptical people are although having all the facts I'm not keen on doing that anymore.
Cheers
Mike
BTW my mate will swap his Alcon kit for the Movit kit as he found out that they're superior regarding fading, modulation and wear. The other reason is the wide availability for parts compared to the other kits.
The same kit will be fitted on an EVO VII which will be used for the Nuerburgring 24h hours race this year.
This discussions have been done to death now, can't count the mails people send me offline. Check the threads on the Lancer Forum, it's full of information. I've also done a comparison between the Movit kit and the AP 6 pot which gave interesting results. This can also be found in the same forum in the "AP group buy" topic.
I could offer a group buy but seeing how sceptical people are although having all the facts I'm not keen on doing that anymore.
Cheers
Mike
02 January 2002, 10:46 AM
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Mike,
thanks for the reply, here and in emails and on lancer forum.
I am *very* tempted by the movit kit, if only for looks ;-) vain guy that I am. it is cheaper than both of the AP setups, plus I have a porker dealer about 10mins down the road so getting pads should not be a problem. I've exchanged many emails with Richard @ JAS Traction, and he's a great bloke.
To be honest I did think about asking him about a group buy, but like you was not too sure about it.
Maybe I should just bite the bullet and kit the movit kit.
decisions, decisions.!
thanks for the reply, here and in emails and on lancer forum.
I am *very* tempted by the movit kit, if only for looks ;-) vain guy that I am. it is cheaper than both of the AP setups, plus I have a porker dealer about 10mins down the road so getting pads should not be a problem. I've exchanged many emails with Richard @ JAS Traction, and he's a great bloke.
To be honest I did think about asking him about a group buy, but like you was not too sure about it.
Maybe I should just bite the bullet and kit the movit kit.
decisions, decisions.!
02 January 2002, 11:26 AM
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Markus
Like you I am torn between the ap and movit kit (cheers Mike for your patience and the advice). I rang up an AFN dealer re discs and was quoted £170 so they're cheap and supply is/would be no problem.
-The mon-bloc design of the calliper is v tempting
-The discs are better than the ap's i suspect. The patented design of the vanes and the fact that the disc surface is not messed with after cast must make their heat soaking abilities across the face more uniform (holes are cast on porker. ap grooves/holes done after cast)
-Looking through an Evo back-issue the other day (No 9) i came across an article about the porker GT3 racer. there is a photo of the brakes with the wheels off. they are clearly running a standard GT3 calliper with what looks like a standard disc.Pritty impressive.
However i make the movits more expensive. Scoobymania is doing the ap 6's at £1531 and would throw in cheap fitting.
Both are superb kits. Hoppy was telling me that his 6's drag his scoob from 100-0mph in 3.25secs (done more than once consecutively) and that is enough to make you physically sick.
On the vanity front (sadly an important consideration!)i think both look brilliant for different reasons. the porkers are bright red, the aps look just plain mean (like they've been nicked off a stealth bomber)
Lastly i would consider poss re-sale. I suspect that you'd probably sell an ap 6 pot kit easier on this site than a movit kit. people just dont know them as well.
Its a difficult decision but i think it comes down to personal preference. both are gonna be a mind-blowing improvement on standard.
I reserve the right to be shot-down GRACEFULLY on any of the above!!
Cheers matt
Like you I am torn between the ap and movit kit (cheers Mike for your patience and the advice). I rang up an AFN dealer re discs and was quoted £170 so they're cheap and supply is/would be no problem.
-The mon-bloc design of the calliper is v tempting
-The discs are better than the ap's i suspect. The patented design of the vanes and the fact that the disc surface is not messed with after cast must make their heat soaking abilities across the face more uniform (holes are cast on porker. ap grooves/holes done after cast)
-Looking through an Evo back-issue the other day (No 9) i came across an article about the porker GT3 racer. there is a photo of the brakes with the wheels off. they are clearly running a standard GT3 calliper with what looks like a standard disc.Pritty impressive.
However i make the movits more expensive. Scoobymania is doing the ap 6's at £1531 and would throw in cheap fitting.
Both are superb kits. Hoppy was telling me that his 6's drag his scoob from 100-0mph in 3.25secs (done more than once consecutively) and that is enough to make you physically sick.
On the vanity front (sadly an important consideration!)i think both look brilliant for different reasons. the porkers are bright red, the aps look just plain mean (like they've been nicked off a stealth bomber)
Lastly i would consider poss re-sale. I suspect that you'd probably sell an ap 6 pot kit easier on this site than a movit kit. people just dont know them as well.
Its a difficult decision but i think it comes down to personal preference. both are gonna be a mind-blowing improvement on standard.
I reserve the right to be shot-down GRACEFULLY on any of the above!!
Cheers matt
02 January 2002, 11:34 AM
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Markus
Ive just realised that you're price comparison is using the kit that Guido has put together. this utilises the calliper from the latest 996 carrera. Ive been talking about the GT3 kit. this is the set-up that scooby-mike has (and all of his reviews are based upon). im sure the 996 calliper is excellent but if its a choice between the AP 6pot and the 996 kit I'd go for the AP'S.
Ive just realised that you're price comparison is using the kit that Guido has put together. this utilises the calliper from the latest 996 carrera. Ive been talking about the GT3 kit. this is the set-up that scooby-mike has (and all of his reviews are based upon). im sure the 996 calliper is excellent but if its a choice between the AP 6pot and the 996 kit I'd go for the AP'S.
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02 January 2002, 11:36 AM
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Matt,
thanks mate, at least someone is in the same boat as me. Got a price for the movit kit. this taken from Richards (Jas traction) email:
Did I tell you that MOV'IT have come up with a cheaper alternative for the Impreza & EVO 6. It uses the 322x32 Bi-turbo rotor but the slightly smaller& lighter Carrera 4m5 4 pot MONOBLOCK calliper. Developed for these lighter sports saloons, they are much better suited to the size of the stock hubs, and perform equally as well as the heavier kit. they retail at £1480.50 including vat.
so, a very tempting option
thanks mate, at least someone is in the same boat as me. Got a price for the movit kit. this taken from Richards (Jas traction) email:
Did I tell you that MOV'IT have come up with a cheaper alternative for the Impreza & EVO 6. It uses the 322x32 Bi-turbo rotor but the slightly smaller& lighter Carrera 4m5 4 pot MONOBLOCK calliper. Developed for these lighter sports saloons, they are much better suited to the size of the stock hubs, and perform equally as well as the heavier kit. they retail at £1480.50 including vat.
so, a very tempting option
02 January 2002, 01:02 PM
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yeah you're right. scoobymania are currently doing the ap-6 for £1531 inc vat.Deal lasts till 2nd week of Jan. The kit incorporates the GP48 extra vaned discs, fluid and front hoses. fitting is also reduced at £60. the only thing you'll extra will be a set of braided hoses for the standard rears.
Not bad at all
Not bad at all
02 January 2002, 01:02 PM
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Martin,
yeah, I've spoken to mike about the 'sale' they are having at the moment. the problem is that I'm not going to have the cash until at least the beginning of feb, if not after.
yeah, I've spoken to mike about the 'sale' they are having at the moment. the problem is that I'm not going to have the cash until at least the beginning of feb, if not after.
02 January 2002, 02:10 PM
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Hi mates
it's good to see that on this board a sensible discussion is welcomed instead of slagging off matches like on the Lancer BBS.
The kit Richard mentioned has been made as the price for the GT3 can be too much for some of us. Already the "standard" 996 calliper is a top product. These cars are heavier than yours and reach around 285km/h top speed so more than enough for your application. The diametre of the disc supplied with this kit is far enough. If you overheat such a disc than look for a career as racing driver or learn to brake properly. I would even claim the 304mm disc is already enough for a Scoob. Good prove is Stef which uses a brake setup with discs at a similar size and he can't be blamed of driving like a nanny can he?!
Just one word about the pads. If you go for AP or Movit use Pagid instead of Ferodos. Pagid are pure organic based so are much kinder to the disc and all components involved. Especially on the Movit cast-drilled disc which run cool in comparison to any other disc offered they offer superb stopping power and brake feel without any need to going the harsh carbonmetallic route. This will safe you loads of money as it prolongs disc and pad life.
Also cleaning will be much easier as it's only dust and not this sticking residue produced by carbonmetallic pads. And less squealing.
Cheers
Mike
PS: Just one word. When my Scooby mates drive my EVO with the standard brake setup they wanted such a setup on their cars and couldn't believe why I went for the Movit kit. But it takes them 5km to realise how much better is it compared to standard Brembo stuff. First thing everyone mentions when driving my car are always the brakes although the engine produces more than 320hp.
it's good to see that on this board a sensible discussion is welcomed instead of slagging off matches like on the Lancer BBS.
The kit Richard mentioned has been made as the price for the GT3 can be too much for some of us. Already the "standard" 996 calliper is a top product. These cars are heavier than yours and reach around 285km/h top speed so more than enough for your application. The diametre of the disc supplied with this kit is far enough. If you overheat such a disc than look for a career as racing driver or learn to brake properly. I would even claim the 304mm disc is already enough for a Scoob. Good prove is Stef which uses a brake setup with discs at a similar size and he can't be blamed of driving like a nanny can he?!
Just one word about the pads. If you go for AP or Movit use Pagid instead of Ferodos. Pagid are pure organic based so are much kinder to the disc and all components involved. Especially on the Movit cast-drilled disc which run cool in comparison to any other disc offered they offer superb stopping power and brake feel without any need to going the harsh carbonmetallic route. This will safe you loads of money as it prolongs disc and pad life.
Also cleaning will be much easier as it's only dust and not this sticking residue produced by carbonmetallic pads. And less squealing.
Cheers
Mike
PS: Just one word. When my Scooby mates drive my EVO with the standard brake setup they wanted such a setup on their cars and couldn't believe why I went for the Movit kit. But it takes them 5km to realise how much better is it compared to standard Brembo stuff. First thing everyone mentions when driving my car are always the brakes although the engine produces more than 320hp.
02 January 2002, 02:24 PM
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damn you mike! 
I'm now back in favour of the movit setup, 
bugger! maybe I should just bite the bullet and try the movit kit and if I don't like it sell it on. hmmmmmmmm, gonna have a think about this.
I'm now back in favour of the movit setup, bugger! maybe I should just bite the bullet and try the movit kit and if I don't like it sell it on. hmmmmmmmm, gonna have a think about this.
02 January 2002, 02:46 PM
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Markus
didn't want to confuse you. As a car nutter myself buy the kit you feel happiest with, be it AP or Movit. We don't talk about pocket money but go anyway the bigbrake kit route. It will transform your car and you won't look back.
But be prepared better brakes mean more room for some engine mods
I'm going the full monty and will uprate the rears aswell. Together with around 350hp and new coilovers this should be enough for at least the coming summer and some trackdays
Cheers
Mike
didn't want to confuse you. As a car nutter myself buy the kit you feel happiest with, be it AP or Movit. We don't talk about pocket money but go anyway the bigbrake kit route. It will transform your car and you won't look back.
But be prepared better brakes mean more room for some engine mods
I'm going the full monty and will uprate the rears aswell. Together with around 350hp and new coilovers this should be enough for at least the coming summer and some trackdays
Cheers
Mike
02 January 2002, 02:50 PM
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Mike,
thanks for all the advice. now just need cash and decide what to fit.
whatever I go for it will be big improvement over what I have.
thanks for all the advice. now just need cash and decide what to fit.
whatever I go for it will be big improvement over what I have.
02 January 2002, 03:04 PM
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Mike
I dont suppose youve ever tested your brakes withs ome stats in mind. the Evo and scoob are about the same weight i think so any figs would be useful.
Specifically 100-0mph
Cheers matt
I dont suppose youve ever tested your brakes withs ome stats in mind. the Evo and scoob are about the same weight i think so any figs would be useful.
Specifically 100-0mph
Cheers matt
02 January 2002, 03:24 PM
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Matt
haven't done that. IMHO this test isn't very useful as it depends too much on tarmac, tyres, temperature, driver skills etc. Additionally it doesn't say anything about modulation, feel and fade resistance. Interestingly a standard 996 reached 11.8m/s2 decceleration tested by Sport Auto in Hockenheim with standard Porsche pads. No other street car has ever reached such a result in their tests. Sure this is not contributable only to the brakes but also weight distribution etc but gives you a good indication what you can expect.
As my car is stored at the mo I can't check it just for fun.
Mike
haven't done that. IMHO this test isn't very useful as it depends too much on tarmac, tyres, temperature, driver skills etc. Additionally it doesn't say anything about modulation, feel and fade resistance. Interestingly a standard 996 reached 11.8m/s2 decceleration tested by Sport Auto in Hockenheim with standard Porsche pads. No other street car has ever reached such a result in their tests. Sure this is not contributable only to the brakes but also weight distribution etc but gives you a good indication what you can expect.
As my car is stored at the mo I can't check it just for fun.
Mike
05 January 2003, 06:26 PM
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Mike I've seen the last track day @ Varano. two Modenas and a GT3 micro-craked the drilled disks right on the perimeter of the drills.
I spoke with a WRC preparator and suggested me to use full discs.
I spoke with a WRC preparator and suggested me to use full discs.
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