kryten

Having badly damaged a fairly new set of SO2s yesterday at Donington, I'm interested in what options I have to avoid trashing 400quids worth of rubber each time!

I'm off to Bedford Autodrome in a fortnight...

I guess the ultimate (if dry) is a set of slicks but I don't really want to get a spare set of wheels partially due to expense (I'd need 17" wheels that fit over the Alcons) and also as transporting them there/back and changing them would be a bit of a pain (plus leaving my wheels in the pit lane is asking for them to get nicked!). Sods law also says it would be raining the first time I tried to use them....

I was thinking about some 'better' tyres for track use that are road legal and noticed in this month's EVO that there's a news item about new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres that are their 'most advanced production road tyre to date'.

Then I guess I could get them put on before I drive up and changed when I get back (or on days when there's a track support vehicle I could get them changed at the track). Is there a different tyre that would be more suitable?

Or am I kidding myself that I could manage without a spare set of wheels??

Hoppy

Sorry M8, you're kidding yourself.

I started doing track days in earnest last year, and I reckoned a set of up-rated pads would do the trick. That lasted ten minutes.

I am now older, wiser and much, much poorer. If you want to know more, I'll happily post more info on the stuff I now run.

Richard.

PS See you at Bedford!

Hoppy

Hi Kryten. To be fair M8, with your Alcon brakes and 17in wheels, you've already taken the biggest hits to your pocket.

For anyone thinking of doing track days, a £1,500 brake upgrade is, quite simply, essential in my view.

Also, running on your road tyres (unless it's wet) will wreck them and they'll soon over-heat and you'll be sliding all over. So a spare set is needed.

I've got two sets - one with Dunlop 210/620x17 slicks and another with some well-sha99ed PZeros. Carrying any more than one extra set of wheels is a real pain, so I just decide which ones I want on the morning of the event and pop them on the back seat, pre-inflated to 40psi (letting them down is much easier than pumping them up!).

To be honest, although the slicks give fantastic grip, I think they're a bit OTT. It's not a race, and they put huge strain on the bearings and over-work the suspension. 17in slicks are also hard to find. I'll check out those Michelins you mention, but the best alternative I've seen is a Yokohama A006T, 190/610x17. This is the only semi-slick I've been able to find that fits. They also do a bigger 210/625x17 but this needs an 8in rim. Yoko say it's "the ultimate tarmac tyre for all levels of rallying." I'll get a set later in the year, but I don't think they're road legal which is a bit of a shame.

But you don't need slicks of course, just well-worn road tyres. I got a set from Tyres Northampton, but a ring around your local tyre fitters saying there's £50 cash waiting for an old set should do the trick. Or put an ad up here in the wanted section. It doesn't matter if they're not road legal - you can run them in the dry until they're bald!

Now go to Halfords. They sell a great big black plastic box about 3ft long. Fits a Scoob boot nicely. Buy a small trolley jack, extendable wrench for wheel nuts, a torque wrench, 19mm socket and short extension bar, decent pressure gauge, foot pump and a pair of mechanic's gloves. £100 the lot.

There you go. Changing wheels is drag, but well worth the effort. By the way, I always find the nuts need tightening as the wheel warms up. Keep checking. And take a spare set of brake pads. You'll need them one day, so why not get them now. Pads wear much more quickly when hot.

Hope that's useful.

Richard.

PS Security is always a concern on track days when a lot of competitors have no option than to leave expensive kit unguarded. The worry is not from fellow competitors but from visiting scum who have been know to turn up with the sole intention of nicking stuff - including a car from Dono last year, I think.

Get a few metres of chain from your local DIY store and padlock your road tyres together. Always lock your helmet in the car. Be vigilant.

Alternatively, if Tyres Northampton are there (and they're going to Bedford) they'll change your wheels for you and keep an eye on your road rubber. Top people.

[This message has been edited by Hoppy (edited 12 May 2001).]

kryten

Cheers - so what do you reckon I need to get then?

Brakes are sorted, but the tyres now seem to be the 'weakest link' (other than the driver, that is!!)

kryten

Thanks.

Took a good look at my SO2s earlier and they're pretty much trashed

They definitely lost grip after a few laps so I guess are not the ideal track tyre! Are P-Zeros better?

Convincing my wife I now need to spend MORE money on the car is going to be tough and its not as if I can easily hide four wheels, is it!!

Assuming I can convince her, what do you reckon I should get?

I obviously need a spare set of 17" wheels and from what I remember of other discussions, only certain ones will fit over the Alcons - what sort of money do a set go for without tyres?

I can't see me getting a set of slicks AND another spare set so I was wondering if its wet (or even slightly damp) would I do as much damage to a set of SO2s?

If they would fare OK, then I guess I could go for slicks (probably cursing my 3-0 score on dry track days so far!)

Otherwise, I'll need something that would cope with both wet/dry conditions - would the semi slick you mentioned cope?

Do slicks require a different style of driving? Would they gain much more grip (and therefore time per lap) or just increase the margin for error?

How do you secure the wheels on the back seat?? I assume you do - wouldn't fancy having four of them smack me in the back of the head in an accident on the way to the track!!

I'm sure I could manage the changing wheels (isn't that what the AA are for, though!) even though I'm a complete mechanical muppet (no insult intended!), though it would be easier when TN are about.

Hmmm, decisions eh. Anyone fancy hiring me a set of slicks for Bedford

Of course, once the brakes and tyres are sorted, I'm sure the suspension could do with some tweaking

PS Sorry for so many questions - under two weeks to Bedford and I need to decide what to do before then, otherwise I fear that TN may be relieving me of the cash for yet another set of SO2s....

Hoppy

kryten, I've mailed you separately.

Love the idea of calling out the AA to change your wheels! LOL. That would be top

Whatever else you go for, a spare set of wheels is needed. You don't need new ones, so look in the For Sale section. And you will obviously need a few basic tools to change them.

The major question is tyres, and I haven't found a perfect solution apart from taking three spare sets to each track event: slicks, part-worn road tyres for damp/wet, and some good road rubber when it's really raining. Not really practical, is it?

But if it's dry, slicks are wonderful. With the brakes you've got, you can make up so much time on even the superist supercar. Over-taking Porsche GT3s is a great buzz

Those Yoko semi-slicks look interesting, but they're far more slick that wet tyre. The best thing about them is that they will fit both an Impreza wheel and an Impreza wheel arch without problems!

When it comes to transporting spare wheels, I just lay an old blanket over the back seats and plonk them in horizontally. They sit below shoulder height so you'd need a very nasty accident to have them visit you in the front. But you make a good point so I'll put them in vertically next time, and run the seat belt between the spokes to secure them securely!

Richard

dela

I've toyed with the idea of fitting Yokohama road legal sticky tyres, like the A038R which is fitted to Lotus' 340R as standard.

Surely this sort of cut slick will outlast a road tyre and won't be as intimidating to use as slicks?

They make a 16" version, check out their website to see if they do suitable 17"ers:

kryten

Thanks again for the info.

Guess I just really need to decide if I want full slicks or not and then manage to convince my wife that I really do _need_ them!!

For those that use slicks - did you find it easy to start using them (from using road tyres). It seems like a great idea but not if it will take several track days to get used to them.

Hoppy

dela, those Yoko A038-R tyres are just perfect for track days - grip like slicks, can be run if the track is a bit damp (but not wet!) and road legal.

Unfortunately, you can't get them in any size other than 12in (for the Lotus).

This is according to their latest literature which only lists the one size. Unless something major has changed recently.

I spoke to the Yoko guys at the Autosport show who confirmed that they could sell loads of bigger A038-R tyres, but none was in production. Yoko promised them, and listed a range of sizes, over a year ago, so don't hold your breath.

What is that web site link? Is it offical Yokohama? Whatever, it needs updating but I would be delighted to be proved wrong. I'll check with Yokohama tomorrow and if other sizes are available, I'll post the info.

Richard.

TURBO7379

A plain uncut slick will grip on a wet track as long as there is no standing water once you get them warmed up . The problem is that most people don't give them time to warm up (1 or 2 laps , depending on compound) and go ba11s out on their 1st lap , have a big scare , and think these slicks are sh1te I'll not use them again . If you give them a chance to warm up the difference is unbelievable compared to a road tyre . On my last track day it had been raining and the track was wet so I went out on my GY Eagle F1's . The car wouldn't turn in at all at the corners . For the second session I fitted the slicks even though the track was still wet . I took it easy for a lap and then went for it . The car went round the corners like it was on rails ! Even the ABS wasn't cutting in under hard braking . If it is raining heavily and it is sitting on the track just use your road tyres . If there is only one or two puddles remember to slow down where they are and leave the slicks on . The time you make up on the dryer bits more than compensates for what you lose on the wet bits ( remember M Shumacher at the Malaysian GP ) .

Derek

kryten

I assume the problem with using slicks on a wet track is judging where the grip level is - make a mistake and its kitty litter time. Surely a road tyre would be more forgiving?

After all, I'm there to have fun, not trash the car!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
remember M Shumacher at the Malaysian GP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, but remember everyone else!! in each wet GP there are a load of drivers who spin out on slicks. ok they're going faster but they also drive for a living and know what they are doing!

if they can't keep it on the black stuff when the track is damp, what chance does a mortal such as myself have??

Hoppy

It seems that I WAS WRONG

Just spoken to Yokohama who say that Scooby-friendly AO38-R tyres are available, it's just that they don't import them to the UK.

E-mail Jim Fullwood at motorsport@yokohama.co.uk and tell him you want some!

Richard.

DavidLewis

If you want cheap, new slicks, see my post, "New Slicks - Running in"

P.S. How do you post a page reference within a post?