waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

MY96WRX with 4 pots,pagid grooved discs and pagid pads.
Brakes have gone soft and pedal has exesive travel now.
I have bled system today no air present,can find no sign of any leaks.If i brake then take foot off and apply again the pedal feels good.Any advise please anyone.

markwild

Not sure if your brakes have suddenly gone soft...

BUT _ I found the greatest improvement to pedal feel came from braided lines.

Obviously this is not the answer you want if it was OK yesterday and now its not !

Mark

PhilA

When did it go soft? Did you change anything prior to this? I have a similar problem. Brakes work but the pedal has quite a bit travel but it firms up nicely if you double press it. I have recent OEM discs, new pagid pads and a Subaru fluid change followed by me bleeding it 4 times and I had a mate look at it. Definately not air but there's something...

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Hi Phil
This happened shortly after fitting 4 pots,pagid discs and pads,i bled system out and refilled with racing fluid,have bled a good 2 litres of fluid through and 100% definate no air in system.As you say 2nd press on pedal and its ok.I have just noticed the rubber pipe from inlet manifold which joins to a metal pipe that goes to the servo has alot of cracks and is perished it is quite well split.I am hoping this has something to do with it.The only other posibility is that i have a slight leak somewere from not nipping up all the brake line nuts.Strange that the brakes were ok for about 6 weeks after the work on them.
Phil if you get it resolved please let me know,i will also let you know if i get a result.
Cheers

PhilA

That could be it, I haven't checked mine yet. AFAIK this pipe provides assistance to the brake servos. I have read briefly that if this pipe is dodgy it gives a soft pedal. I haven't had a definate confirmation from anyone who has changed their's but if mine is knackered I'll change it ASAP.

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Phil
I will be fitting a new pipe at the weekend i will let you know if it solves the prob.Please let me know how you get on cheers

Martyn

PhilA

I wont get a chance to even inspect it till the weekend. Then by the time I've got the bit from Subaru that'll be another week.
I'll be very interested to see if that sorts it, here's hoping.

Hashi

Phil A and WaggyDoo, I had exactly the same symptoms as you both described on my 98 uk. I suggest you check the fit of your front pads, especially the inside ones (closest to the engine).

I found that the inner brake pad on each front caliper was not sliding freely between the two stainless steel "clips". It was sorted by removing thethe pads and grinding about 1mm of metal off each of the lugs on the brake pads' backing plate. Or alternatively, you can remove the inside part of the caliper (attached to the hub) and grind a bit off that. After doing that, my brakes are sponge free and bite first time, every time.

I originally feared the worst - like a dodgy master cylinder/servo or air in the system etc. but this was not the case! Yippeee!!

Disclaimer:
btw, it worked for me. Not saying that you SHOULD do it!

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Hashi
I will take a look at this over the weekend. How did you find out that was the problem with your car.Did you try all the other possibilities before you found the prob.I am trying to picture what would happen if the inside pads were not sliding free,cant quite see how this would give spongy/soft pedal.
Thank you for your advise,i am willing to try anything as its getting a blloody pain in the ar**

PhilA

I can't see why this would give a spongy pedal either. I have already done this to my front right caliper (due to it squeeking) and I will try and do the others soon.

MadMark

I have an 03 WRX that has done just over 12K and my pedal has slowly started to go more squishy. Do I need to bleed my brakes?

It had a set of Ferodo DS2500 pads about 6K ago.

Hashi

PhilA and WD, Previously, I'd explained this problem to my trusted Jap Import spannerman, and he said it was unlikely to be a faulty master cylinder, more like air in the system. He said that he'd seen very few Mas' Cyl' failures in all the WRXs he's imported.

A couple of months ago, following a brake inspection where the pedal was reported as being "spongy", the brake system was bled by Monks Heath Subaru - in addition to a cambelt service etc.

2 weeks ago, i went to a local garage and he said that he'd seen this spongy pedal problem on another Scooby before. He said that as the pad isnt fully contacting the disc, the first pump of the pedal causes one piston (2 pot calipers) to push half the pad, and the second pump of the pedal pushes the second half, finally resulting in complete pad to disc contact - hence the soft, then hard pedal feel. I too was a bit sceptical, but I thought I'd give it a try. Maybe pure luck or coincidence, but I havent had any problems since "shaving" the lugs down a bit...

zhastaph

Hashi, I have had these exact symptons since fitting my EBC reds. I have bled the system but to no avail.

Wot you say does kinda ring true in my case, so I'm gonna have a gander at the weekend.

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Hashi
Thanks for more info.
I am going to take a look and give it a go over the week end.nothing to loose.
Cheers

PhilA

I'll have a look as well, nothng to loose, everything to gain.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I've had something similar to the soft brake pedal problem.
I also found it was a pad hanging up , but it would give a good slap/click as it freed itself and hit the disc.
I found it was the two guide pins passing throuhg the pads and caliper.
Each pin was pretty corroded (2 hand 4 pots) and the extra thickness was jamming in the pad guide holes.
A bit of wire brushing, sandpaper then copper grease solved the problem.

Nick

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Thanks every one for there info on this.I am convinced it will be as you guys say the pads sticking.

PhilA

Sorry for doubting you guys. I have just finished cleaning and greasing my front passenger caliper, and what a difference it has made. My brakes now bite first time and much higher up the pedal than before. It feels like I don't need to double press the pedal anymore. I'll get a better feel from them after using them for a few days. Even though there was nothing obvious with my caliper, minor bits of muck and tiny lumps on the sliders, which I filled off, it's definately worth doing. Cheers...

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Well guys i have stripped out pads cleaned everything,rubbed down the pins,filed a little off edge of pads.applied a little copper grease.Made no diference at all.gutted.I think it may be time for the garage to take a look.I have checked everything on the braking system,no leaks.Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Im glad you other guys got yours sorted.

zhastaph

Oh dear Waggy Doo, I'm sorry

Anyway, here's my update


I removed me front brake pads, the rear pad on each side was well jammed in there. Once they woz out I;

• Filed clean all the sh*te off the retaining pins.
• They are EBC reds, so they are coated in red paint, I filed all this off the sides of the pads
• I noticed the rear pads had grooves cut in them from the outside lip of the disc and the inside of the centre. So I filed edges out of this [MANIACALGRIN]cos I cant really see that filing a gurt chunk outa me pad is gonna hurt[/MANIACALGRIN]

When I refitted the pads they just dropped in, whereas before when I fitted them I had to tap them in with a little hammer.

Anyways i've driven it 2nite and they is much much better. I've still got a lot more pedal travel than I'd like, but when I press them now they actual brake as they should do, I no longer have the need to press them twice to make it stopped.

So mega fanx Mr Hashi

I fink next weekend I'm gonna bleed the system see if I can get rid of some of the travel.

[Edited by zhastaph - 12/7/2003 8:36:20 PM]

zhastaph

I know corners aren't done outside the confines of Muppets, but ha


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zhastaph

*Zhastaph patiently awaits the inexorable slap on the wrist by the mods *

PhilA

Mine also have more travel than I'd like, but I think they are like this as standard.. That's probably why the big boys upgrade to 6-pots etc.

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Hi Phil and Zastaph
I am going to take a look at the rear end as i have not dismantled them yet,they have red stuff pads and standard discs.
My brakes have never had this amount of travel,over half way then brakes work.They actually work very well.

PhilA

I think I'll do my rear brakes as well. No point in only doing half a job.

PhilA

wagga doo, did you check your brake servo hose last weekend?
After a few days they have regressed a bit. I'mm still not 100% happy with them. I did notice on one of my front calipers the pad guide pin was bent so I'm replacing that on Sunday, we'll see if that makes any difference.

[Edited by PhilA - 12/9/2003 6:14:06 PM]

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Hi phil
Yes i sorted out the hose,again no different.
My wife uses the car during the week and she said that the brakes are not as bad as they were.I am going to strip the rear brakes at the weekend and see how that goes.

Martyn

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Well,i still having problems.Symptoms now are if i put foot on brake with even pressure and hold it there as the car slows down the brakes grab then release and continue to do this until the car stops.I hold the pedal in exactly the same position but the brakes kind of work and then dont its as if i am taking my foot off then back on repeatedly.

HELP
HELP
HELP

anyone got good tech knowledge of braking system that can throw some light on this.

Thank you

zhastaph

Hi Waggy Doo, sorry to hear you're still having problems

This does sound a bit strange to me. Have you tried taking ABS out of the system to confirm that it is not this playing silly buggers, mayb a knacked sensor or something.

I believe if you just remove the ABS fuse this will complete kill it and make it brake like a normal car.

Be very aware though and don't leave it like it, I'm not overly sure what the rear will brake like with it removed, my feeling is that it'll brake harder than it should do so may make it 'dancy'.

I also reckon you should repost this as a new thread, I think mist bods would overlook this one now.

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Zhastaph
Thanks for ideas i will start another thread see if i get any tech advise.

Cheers