hodgy0_2

lol, a complaint was sent to the bbc regarding there lack of coverage of petrol shortages / strikes




it even shows a pic of someone pushing a car FFS

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Wasn't there when I searched this morning. Or last night.

It is on sky and most newspapers websites, but low down on the pages...priorities by a woman deported from Oz and a crashed plane that contained one Briton....in almost "hope" it will be terror related so they can get the first "scoop".

Although I could mistaken that French striking is being buried as it polarises British opinion on Brexit. I could be clutching at straws or just cynical that not one media outlet in the UK has front paged it....even the French plod car being torched is largely out of the limelight.

neil-h

I'd have said the management are quite well matched to the audience then (that's not directly aimed at anyone in particular before you get all excited about personal attacks again).

BMWhere?

FFS! I posted a link to it in this thread yesterday evening stating that I'd read it yesterday morning! It was front and center on the Europe pages all day yesterday and its still there in the same position today!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Calm down dear, I didn't see your post. But even now, its not easily findable from the BBC news front page or via google (or google news). Seeing that it is current and ongoing, you should have to search for it with specific key words. Its as if its been buried.

I only became aware of the seriousness after my friend sent me a text warning me...after his UK to Santander ferry got diverted to Le Havre.

dpb

just been on 1pm bbc news on tv

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I, too, would have thought that with the Spring bank holiday looming, this just MIGHT have been front and centre for Brits?

dpb

i reckon they decided its probably only a couple three well off semi expats can afford drive anyway - sod it, they'll be voting leave whatever


everyone else 3 day weekend sleezyjet

Martin2005

Yes you're right, I've already cancelled my back garden BBQ, my trip to IKEA and day out at the Cricket.

dpb

Well I think the lesson here is if you live down sarf you have to work harder

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I'm wondering, based on the ScoobyNet poll, whether to bet on a result in line with it.

You can currently get 150/1 that the Remain vote will be under 30%, so it might be worth a go.

dpb

Don't do if fgs, when has ScoobyNet.com ever been representational

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I know what you mean, but the trouble is if it suddenly turns out to be right, I'll be fed up on June 24th. A relative won a bet on Leicester City and gave us all a bit of it, so I've got a small amount of 'free' cash at the moment.

Winning a load on the referendum courtesy of Leicester's improbable triumph would be very satisfying.

Martin2005

I know this is well trodden ground, but I'm still waiting to hear from anyone on the Leave side what our trading relationship with the EU is likely to be. How can people vote to leave if they don't know what leave looks like?

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

You'll find out on June 24th Martin, while I'm on the way to the betting shop to collect my winnings....

Martin2005

Good luck with that

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

stays the same for up to 2 years, thats how long we have before any changes are made, look it up

Martin2005

I really don't need to look that up.

BMWhere?

That's not entirely true. We have UP TO 2 years to negotiate the exit before we are essentially kicked out of the EU and default to WTO rules. Theoretically, we could negociate in less than 2 years and leave earlier, although that is unlikely to happen!

CharlesTuna

iTrader: (2)

£10 or £20 it's worth a punt!!

Better odds than the lottery and look at how much some people spend on that!

Got for it

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I might just go for it. My wife has approved the idea, so why not.

Mentioning the lottery reminds me of one other thing I've been wondering about that I haven't seen discussed anywhere. Will the Euromillions Lottery still run in the UK when we leave?

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

who cares what leaving looks like when staying means
UNELECTED PEOPLE TELLING US WHAT TO DO
SAME SAID PEOPLE TOTALLY UNACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY OF THEIR ACTIONS
MASS IMMIGRATION 70 MILLION TURKS HAVING THE RIGHT TO COME HERE
UNCOMPETITIVE MARKET PROTECTED BY EU REGS COSTING US 20% ON OUR SHOPPING EVERY WEEK,
leaving actually means all the above won't happen so we know what will happen if we leave, but you knew all that anyway didn't you

dpb

Shish 70 million , all at once ?

BMWhere?

No need to shout!

1. These unelected people you're talking about, are they the unelected MEPs in the European parliament that you (could have) voted for, or perhaps the unelected national leaders and prime ministers that sit on the European council? Sure, there are unelected beaurocrats in the EU that technically draught the EU regulations, just like the unelected beaurocrats in Whitehall that write the UK laws, in either case, everything they write has to be approved by elected MEPs or UK MPs. Also, don't forget that the EU cannot write UK law, they merely define an set of minimum requirements which are then draughted into UK law by the UK beaurocrats in Whitehall and approved by UK MPs in the houses of parliament and quite often exceed the requirements of European law, such as UK health and safety regs. Leaving the EU will not reppeal any laws, each law would have to be reppealed individually post exit and there will be a lot of resistance to keep most of the them.

2. Those people are accountable because they are elected.

3. Turkey is not a member of the EU and is extremely unlikely to be any time soon. If they ever do join, and that is a very big if, they are unlikely to be flocking to the UK in any great number. Berlin is technically Turkey's second largest city. The majority of non-EU immigrants in Germany are Turkish and they majority of Turkish people willing to emmigrate will undoubtedly head to Germany, not the UK! For another country to join the EU, they need approval for all member states, anyone can veto new members joining. Germany will certainly veto Turkey joining for the foreseable future and there is very little appetite for any other members in the near future. The threat of immigration from Turkey is pure scarmongering from the Leave campaign with absolutely no truth.

4. Many of those 'uncompetetive' regulations are designed to protect consumers, workers and the general public, such as regulations against price fixing and uncompetetive behaviour, food safety regulations, environmental regulations including restrictions on GM produce, working time directives, health and safety and so on. Many of the bad regulations aren't as bad as the press have made out, such as the straight vegitible regs did not ban bendy bananas or cucumbers and odd shaped carrots, but merely sought to classify them. Its the UK supermarkets that chose to only stock class I produce, the rest of the EU continued to offer veggies in all shapes an sizes!

Martin2005

All of which leads us back what kind of Brexit do the Leave camp actually want? As once you peel away the slogans and myths (as you have nicely done here) what's left? What are people actually expecting a Brexit to look like?

The Turkey issue is a total farce, why is it ok to demonise one of our most important NATO allies? I thought the outist were all in favour of NATO.

BMWhere?

This is the real question that I've yet to hear a reasonable answer to and therefore why I'm pro remain.

There are basically 4 options available from an economic perspective:

1. Norway solution = Member of the EEA
2. Swiss solution = Member of EFTA
3. Trading partnerships with EU/USA/China etc.
4. Standard WTO rules.

So, 1 & 2 don't work, because they are basically the current Status-Quo - we have to accept EU migrants and we have to pay for membership but we no longer get a say in how things are run. The idea that we would get a better deal than Switzerland or Norway is rediculous as it would mean that we are granted better conditions than all other member states and that's clearly not going to happen.

Number 4 also doesn't work as without any trade partnerships then our economy would collapse. We couldn't afford imports and nobody could afford our exports. The cost of living would sky-rocket, along with inflation and the value of the £ would collapse.

The only possible option that brings the changes the outers want and gives us a hope of survival is option 3. The big problem here, is the UK is a pretty tiny economy compared to combined EU economies, China, USA, even India. China recently made a deal with Switzerland that gives China immediate, unrestricted access to the Swiss market, yet on the Swiss side, they have to wait 15 years. There's no reason to believe the UK would get much of a better deal - maybe we get access in 10 years? The EU might be willing to offer a half decent trade deal, but with TTIP looming, at it will come sooner rather than later, then to both the USA and the EU, post TTIP, the UK will become more insignificant and devalue any possible trade deals. Certainly, both the USA and EU will be more eager to agree on TTIP than a deal with the UK. In reality, it will take many years, maybe up to a decade, to negotiate all the trade deals and even then it may be many more years before the markets are open to us. After 2 years we're out of the EU whatever, and if no trade agreements are in place, then we default to option 4 which will be a screw up!


And then there is the whole issue of the fact that all those troublesome EU regulations are actually on the UK statute book and will stay there post Brexit. In order to repeal any legislations would require an act of parliament which would first require a desire to make the change and then require a majority vote by the commons and finally a majorty vote by the Lords. I personally can't see many of the regulations being dropped, and those that are will be to the benefit of business and not to the workers or consumers.

hodgy0_2

I think the bottom line is that the arguments from the Brexiters are emotional and backward thinking


They really seem to hark back to a time when we were some sort of imperial power and other countries will do what we say or want because, well because we are Great Britain

Coupled with the fact that as I said in an earlier post, the world has moved on from the time elected politicians had real power - it has and is being steadily eroded by "the market"

Ironically a plan devised by the very people who continually whinge about democracy

DYK

[QUOTE=ALi-B;11837461]Calm down dear, I didn't see your post. But even now, its not easily findable from the BBC news front page or via google (or google news). Seeing that it is current and ongoing, you should have to search for it with specific key words. Its as if its been buried.

I only became aware of the seriousness after my friend sent me a text warning me...after his UK to Santander ferry got diverted to Le Havre.

Is possible why this oil refinery blockade is being kept low key,or having to search for it on the news websites.

France Collapsing: In UK a virtual news blackout is in full swing.

Video has been removed and can't get the link.Media is trying to keep what is happening in France low profile,strike and immigrants causing trouble again,until after the 23rd June.

And nobody really know what will happen if we remain in the EU..failing Euro Greece or Italy possible collapse etc etc.So let's remain in and be shackled to
Brussels.Ali is right,you think a French work strike would have been broadcasted on the news uk,as far as I know it has not.

BMWhere?

[QUOTE=DYK;11837686]Story is still there as one of the main Europe stories on the BBC website. Someone posted yesterday it was broadcast on the lunchtime news. Nobody is hiding anything!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

IMO

The point of democracy with MEPs is a valid one but only for our MEPs. I personally believe the EU parliament, is a corrupt one, or at least corruption exists within it. If you look at the governments of EU member countries and their own corruption problems in their governments it's likely this continues with their MEPs. And we cannot hold them accountable. So yes the EU is democratic and accountable as far as our UK MEPs but the UK public is powerless to tackle any other EU member when it comes addressing this issue. And it seems nobody within the EU is capable of addressing it either. It's a beuraucratic stalemate because the corruption exists to suit the needs of its members but not the wider public that voted for them. Still democratic? In principal yes, in reality it's not as black and white.

The question of if we are better being part of that where we can try and tackle it from within. Or be outside of it where we can do nothing, or more than likely carry on as before by making "deals" with golden handshakes etc. And I believe the latter will be the case regardless of if we are in or out of the EU.

Bear in mind as far as I can find, we have 24 UKIP MEPs out of 73...Labour has 20, what influence has that that made to overall EU governance. None as far as I can tell. It could be they are counter voted by our own MEPs cancelling out any veto.

A glimpse into this IMO is the pre and post events around the Lisbon treaty; what was the European constitution treaty: We were supposed to have a referendum on these changes. Instead the changes where rephrased as amendment on the already existing treaties meaning no referendum was required. Democratic?

Bear in mind our own MEPs allowed this without much fuss.