warrenm2

The starting pistol has gone. We're off. A once in a lifetime opportunity for the country to determine its future. Are we as David Cameron claims, going to be "safer in a reformed Europe"? "or is it a pathetic attempt to claim a deal we had to beg for to maybe halt some benefit claims is worth a candle?

Four months to go....

JTaylor

I see George Galloway has joined your team, Warren.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

OUT!

steve05wrx

Hi,
Unfortunately - I live overseas, so don't think it will be easy/possible to vote.
I firmly believe that if we want to be in the Eu - it should be the full fat experience - currency, laws, Schengen etc.
With Cameron's negotiations for exceptions it makes Britain to be like the weak, unpopular kid at school that was excused from games.
On the current basis I would prefer we voted out and then controlled our own destiny.
Cheers
Steve

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Out here.

The Dogs B******s

Out for me.

warrenm2

Yes, an interesting move. Not a fan of Galloways personally. I saw these two quotes elsewhere that sums it up for me ...

and

Martin2005

Listening to the Radio yesterday it was interesting to hear 'in' supporters tend to well educated


So does that mean that this is really a 'Smart' vs 'Thicko' referendum?

neil-h

This is what worries me I've got a feeling it's going to be a referendum that's won or lost on the basis of what are actually fairly trivial arguments. Rather than having a proper debate on the subject.

Martin2005

The regional breakdown will be interesting too


Thus far it looks like London, Scotland and Wales will be strongly for 'in' the rest of the UK for 'out'

JTaylor

Tremendous argument, lads, a real tour de force.

warrenm2

I don't think the question of who runs the country is a trivial one....

dpb

Don't think it matters in / out

win some / lose some




* almost as ludicrous as discussing ones position on the ' almighty'

warrenm2

The whole future of the country hinges on this decision. Do we regain our status as a sovereign nation, or do we become a province of the EU? Do we roll over and accept a group of foreigners making our laws for us, or do we make our laws to suit us? Do we hand over to the next generation the power of their own destiny or do we shamefully say we gave it away in our time? Do we squander the sacrifices of our fathers or do we honour them? Do we stand up and be counted for freedom or do you go quietly into the night with your tail between your legs?

Do we vote to save or destroy the UK as a nation?

OF COURSE IT BLOODY MATTERS!

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

I don't agree with paying around 55 million pounds a day to let an unelected governing body/euro suits tell us how we should run our own country,Great Britan.
I don't believe in an open door policy.
I'm not against migration(it's one of the thing that make our country Great).
I agree with many that it should be more like the Australian points based system.
We should be more open to trade with the whole world and not just relay on European free trade(we will still be able to trade with Europe when we're out)
I'm sure there is many more reasons for being out,so I will ponder.

Look I've yet to hear any decent facts for IN or OUT to be honest,it's just a farce at the moment.
Could my mind be changed? Possibly,but unlikely.
So more facts are needed.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Also a great argument,and where do you stand?

Petem95

This is one of the few things which seems to be agreed upon by people of various political persuasions in my office, everyone seems to want out (although I think the lefties are more likely to lap up the pro-EU rubbish that the BBC etc will spout, and may have their minds changed).

Camerons 'deal' essentially just slows down the effective handover of power and sovereignty to the EU, joining the euro currency and so on would become almost inevitable in the future. There won't be another vote further down the road, it's now or never.

There are still some points worth noting though. Firstly if the 'out' vote won would the EU kick off and try and force the UK to stay, or take legal action against it (a bit like when the Greeks national vote was overturned by the EU in 2015 as they didn't like the outcome, so overturned it)

The second is, is the EU likely to survive anyway? It's an absolute mess with very slow growth, staggering levels of debt, being flooded with migrations and doesn't seem to know how to handle the situation and citizens all over the EU are increasingly turning to nationalist/anti-EU parties.

The only country that really benefits from being in the EU is Germany. If they were still using the Deutschmark their currency would be extremely strong, and this would limit exports massively. As they're in the euro which is weakened by the weaker economies it means they have a strong export market. On the flip side its a disaster for Southern European countries like Greece, Portugal, Spain who have to deal with a currency which is much too strong, so their economies have been devastated, but hey Germany basically runs the EU so that's how they'll continue.

JTaylor

In. We have shared values across the continent that I'd like to see solidified and I'd like Great Britain to remain a part of the project. We keep our Britishness (whatever that is). We are stronger together etc. I could care less for the minutiae, I'm more concerned with the next 100-200 years.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'm currently OUT!

BUT...

Do I trust the competence of UK politicians in re-establishing the UK back as a fully independent country on economics, law, social/welfare and migration?

NO!

You just know that when it comes to negotiating a trade deal we will get the s**ty end of the stick.

Of course with the right people in power with the knowledge and ability to articulate our needs, we could be so much better...in or out of the EU. Sadly that will never be; Someone who is good at this wouldn't be stupid enough to be a politician. I mean many countrys cherry pick the EUs rules and regs to suit them and ignoring them when it doesn't with little or no consequence - why can't we instead of following every rule to the letter?

dpb

What load of bloody diatribe .

We joined a club, and have the same say as anyone else in there (unelected or otherwise)

What I believe youre saying is that as a member of the club we cannot 'afford' to take on the aspirations of the poorer countries , or anyone wanting to come to Europe

Neil XR

iTrader: (1)

defo OUT

as for scotland whwere i live the snp always bloomin moans if they cant get their own way

Petem95

True, but could they be any more incompetent that the EU bureaucrats in Brussels?! Very unlikely, and at least we would be controlling our own destiny.

I've yet to read any convincing arguments stay in. I don't buy all this fantasy land 'stronger together, lets all hold hands' BS. Just look at Switzerland - they're not part of the EU and they're doing well. Look at countries that were once part of the British Empire, they've generally gone on to flourish on their own.

One of the reasons the UK economy has outperformed most of Europe is we have our own currency, so we can set interest rates to suit our economy. We'd lose that if we went on to join the euro currency which of course we would end up doing.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Should we be fully in then? Take on the failing project which is the single currency which was doomed from the start?
The pound is strong,it will be even stronger when we leave the EU.
We can still stand shoulder to shoulder with our brothers and sisters of Europe and the rest of the world for that matter,I don't think we need to be in the 'club' to make a real positive difference to the World.

Petem95

It's either out, or firmly on the road to being 'fully' in. Currently we're only partly in, which is why our economy has outperformed most others in recent years, as we have control over our currency.

The pound probably would strengthen on leaving the EU, although I think initially it would weaken due to uncertainty, then strengthen, however our economy is mainly service based not really based on manufacturing (like France and Germany). We attract a lot of financial business, something which the EU wants a slice of, and would eventually get it we go fully in.

The UK might become a bit of a safe-haven if we do go out, and that could push up asset prices as money floods in, but it would also mean increased prosperity. There would also be the savings on not throwing money away at the EU project where we currency pump in far more than we get out.

c_maguire

Probably in.

But not yet definite.

ScoobyWon't

Are you immortal? With the EU lurching from one disaster to another, be it financial, migration, terrorism or even the threat of a Russian invasion of eastern member states, do you really think the EU will last another 100 to 200 years?

ScoobyWon't

Most of the world is outside of the EU and most of the world is out performing the EU.

ScoobyWon't

If Europe imposes tariffs on the UK, the UK can counter impose tariffs on the EU. As we import more from the EU than we export to them, they have more to lose.

Petem95

The point I'm making is that we've performed better by not being in the Euro (currency), and our national bank has had the ability to control interest rates, administer QE etc, in comparison to other countries in Europe who use the Euro. The single currency has been a disaster for much of Europe because of it's widely differing economies.

As mentioned earlier, the only real winner is Germany as they get to use a currency that's far cheaper than the Deutschmark would be, so it's a boost for exports for them, and thus their economy benefits significantly. The opposite is true for countries like Greece, Portugal etc.

Tidgy

Biggest issue is people are being asked to vote based on the media portrail of the situation. Let's face it none of us truly understand the whole situation.