BMWhere?

Also, Muslim immigration is only likely to be higher outside of the EU as the EU only contains Christian countries and the EU migrants are likely to be replaced by migrants from more Muslim countries!

warrenm2

Your comments speak volumes about your intelligence. The UK population is pretty static / v low growth without immigration. The problem IS mass immigration. I am not going to ignore it for the moment.

Importing a set of people who at best think we are Kaffur IS destroying the country. See Rotherham, Oxford, Telford, Rochdale, et al for details

warrenm2

In the case that a newly Brexit Gvmt decides to maintain uncontrolled immigration, yes that would happen. Back on planet Earth however, you're another idiot

Martin2005

You are ignoring the demographic timebomb though...the population is aging and so we need (and will continue to need) millions of migrant workers over the coming decades. Why don't you mention that, given your superior intellect?

Geezer

Because they're British, not filthy Muslims! Isn't that obvious..........?

hodgy0_2

simple

old people will have to stay in work, or work longer hours doing harder jobs

why cant people start work at 12, 13 or 14 - pointless getting an education these days

the Brexiters see progress as taking the country back to the 1860's

back to the future

BMWhere?

You're welcome to call me an idiot if it makes you feel better about loosing an argument

It doesn't however change the fact, that you choose to ignore, that we already have controlled immigration for non-EU immigrants, with an Australian style points system, yet still the migrant numbers are not falling because the economy is currently demanding more workers than the domestic and EU population can supply.

Migration is not going to drop just because we leave the EU (unless the economy collapses), so I'd much rather have EU migrants with more similar cultures to ours than non-EU migrants!

warrenm2

You misunderstand (quelle surprise). The non EU immigration that Cameron could control as you correctly say, is not falling. Agreed. People get in because the current criteria allow them in (eg join family members) and the Gvmt grants them permission to enter.

However the Gvmt has a current commitment to reducing overall immigration to "tens of thousands". As he cant control EU immigration, you would think he would make headway on that front. He failed at that too. The more intelligent question is given his commitment and power to influence non-EU immigration, why has he not done so? Not sure this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36149185 supports your argument that its economic growth...

You're a stranger to reason. Increased restriction means decreased numbers. Or are you talking about illegals in Dymchurch?

Martin2005

But the economy is demanding more numbers, even your own selective articles states that the service sector (where most immigrants work) continues to boom.


There are something like 700k unfilled vacancies right now, your idea would seem to be to quadruple that number - what would that do to economic growth?

BMWhere?

We already introduced increased restriction (to non-EU migrants) and there is no decreased numbers. As you point out, the power to decrease is there, yet they have not decreased the numbers due to the economic growth!

Assuming growth continues, then migration will continue. If growth falls then migration will also fall as the controls on non-EU migrants kick-in and EU migrants will also drop due to the fall in available jobs!

If EU migration was driven by the benefits system, everyone would be heading to Sweden which has a much better benefit system than the UK. EU migrants are almost exclusively driven by the economy and will ebb and flow as the economies of the EU members grow and decline. Non-EU migration is partly also driven by the economy, but much more from people escaping a poor quality of life in their home countries.

The point is, gaining control over EU migration doesn't mean that there will be a reduction in overall migration, as the main driving factor for migration
is the economy! Migration would have to fall massively before uncontrolled EU migration becomes the real migration problem!

As for illegal immigrants and asylum seekers/refugees, that is a whole other issue that is also irrelevant to EU membership.

Martin2005

QED - leave the EU, therefore crash the economy, then we won't have any immigration. We'd then have 'taken back control' over the migrant free graveyard we've created


Do you think secretly Warren actually gets this, or is he really that blinded by ideology?

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

good then i wont have to run the gauntlet of bloody eastern europeans spitting and drinking when i attempt to walk anywhere in my town.


i cant wait to vote out

Martin2005

That wouldn't be a slight exaggeration would it?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Why can't we just restore the pension system back to what it was before Gordon Brown wrecked it?

....just saying...

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

absolutely not.

mass eastern european migration has ruined communities over here and has a strain on schools nhs etc.

im old enough to remember before we were over run with them.

you cannot walk down the street nowadays without seeing some pole wearing an 80s tracksuit spitting and drinking.


ill gladly take all the downsides although i think its cammoron scare mongering if it stops any more economic migrants moving here.

bring in the points system like aus

Martin2005

As has already been pointed out, we already have such a system




The Poles you so dislike aren't going to leave just because we vote out - you do understand that, right?

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

i am fully aware they will not leave, the damage is done.

but by leaving the eu the uk is not such an attractive prospect to get free houses and benefits so more wont come.

i have seen zero benefits from being in the eu so far and most peoples biggest gripe is not the millions it costs everyday its the damage being done to their communities,schools streets etc by mass immigration.

this is the reason most will vote to leave and i honestly cant wait.

oh i do have gripes with EASTERN EUROPEANS spitting drinking and being anti social on streets and before you say im fully aware uk citizens do this too but we cant get rid of them.

BMWhere?

Question for the leavers:

If the leave campaign were to lay out their economic plan and they said its either EEA (Norway) or EFTA (Swiss) both of which mean we still have to pay the EU and have no control on EU migration and no vote in EU matters which still affect us.

Would you still vote to leave?


Then ask yourself the question; why are the leave campaign not spelling out their economic plan?

Martin2005

Where's Boris?

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

if the stay campaign had a viable immigration plan i might change my mind but they dont and immigration is my no 1 reason for voting out.

hodgy0_2

Yes, that is the myth

I think it was a little more nuanced than that though

Can you get the "Sold all the Gold" one in too

hodgy0_2

Yes you missed Keith Chegwin

Martin2005

Do the leave camp have one?

hodgy0_2

The same was said of the Irish & West Indians of the 50 and 60's, the Ugandan Asians of the 70's

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

no but the migration will not be in the hands of the eu anymore so that wins my vote.

a maybe is better than a no, as said my no.1 gripe is immigration the rest ill take my chances on as so far it has had neither positive or negative effect on my life.

Martin2005

Is Cheggers and outist?


Now that might just sway me

Martin2005

That kind of depends on what kind of Brexit we want / achieve

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

yes it was and as i am from ireland i can tell you the difference is the irish intergrated,worked as there was no benefit system like today and dint come in the numbers like today.

bqck home the issues with the eu are the same anyway.

im not against migration,im against mass migration.

go to a town like boston and see what it has done.

BMWhere?

The remain campaign believe that EU migration is economically driven and therefore migration will reduce when the EU economies recover. They accept that current migration cannot be reduced due to economic demand and EU migration does not fulfil the demand. There is already a points based system to control non-EU migration and can be used to reduce migration at any point they need to, but given the current economic situation, it currently cannot be reduced without slowing growth.

Also, the fact that there are 2.8m EU migrants in the UK and 2.2m British people living within the EU, the net EU migration level is not really a problem!


Now the leave campaigns immigration plan is 100% dependent on the post Brexit economic plan. Without an economic plan, the leave campaigns immigration plan is next to worthless!

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

as said before i have based my vote on what HAS impacted me and that is immigration.

the speculation waffle doesnt concern me.

also a big plus if the vote goes brexit is cammoron might resign