Jamesemt

Looking to spend a couple of hundred quid on an alarm for my Scoob...what should I get? Only extra I'd really like would be remote start...

Scoob+Bike=Fun

Toad Ai606, too many probs with clifford for my liking, also has extra outputs for features such as remote start boot release etc

ande

Please note that if you have a Cat 1 alarm and have remote start fitted it will invalidate your category 1 status. Hope this helps your descision.

P.S. Stay away from Clifford mate, Nothing but Trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ande.

MotorGuard

We are authorized dealers for both Toad and Clifford. If you want my advise I would recommend Clifford all day long over Toad. The new G5 range is fantastic. Clifford is compatible with a turbo timer.


Everyone who has problems with clifford alarms shouldnt put it down to the alarm. Bad installation and setting up is usually to blame. Clifford sensors for example need abit more time to set up than the conventional ultrasonics which come with Toad alarms. We are the fitters and can have any alarm we want and I have always had Clifford on my own cars.

Hope this helps.

TONY F

i,ve had a G5 fitted with intelistart and turbo timer with no probs(not cheap thou)

at least i don,t need to worry about radio masts stoping my alarm working

scoobymods

james m8 clifford 600 with inteli start is very good, if ya want i can pop round and show you mine im in hull m8

scoobymods

Scoob+Bike=Fun

I agree with motorguard, it is usually down to the fitting, but you have to obtain a certain standard before you can get near a clifford, and I have had too many problems with cliffords to mention, but none with the ai606, plus the remote start is as ande has said will invalidate cat 1 status, plus a clifford will be more than a couple of hundred pounds!

scoobyboy

is it possible to wire the remote start on the ai606 to work on a diesel? how do get around the glow plug waiting time?

155mph to slow

Whoever said that having IntelliStart fitted invalidates Thatcham approval is very, very wrong. It is just an optional extra and nothing can make a product that has been tested being un-approved.

Sigma Sam

I beg to differ - security systems are tested as a complete product and then given an evaluation number by Thatcham based on therir proposed useage. In their view, adding any other product which interacts directly with the approved security system or by-passes any of its circuits can be looked upon as a modification to the system that was tested and can void the approval on that particular installation.
Would you expect a Category 1 product to still gain you the same recognition by your insurance company if the immobilisation circuits were not connected? Adding additional products can be seen by insurance companies to compromise security in the same way, particularly remote start devices which by-pass the security system's immobilisation circuits to allow the engine to start and also turbo timers if they allow the engine to run on for more than 30 seconds after the ignition has been turned off.
To meet Thatcham Category 1 criteria (and so also even Category 2 for that matter) the product must first meet 95/56 amd 95/54 EU legislation and carry a CE mark to show that been tested and is fit for purpose - a product with remote start will not have these approvals and will therefore fail Thatcham. Even if the product makes it through to be evaluated by Thatcham it will fail unless it passively immobilises the engine on 2 vital circuits within 30 seconds of the ignition being turned off.
In addition, leaving a vehicle unattended on a public road with the engine running is also an offence in the UK.
You may get away with these products fitted when you renew your policy, but be very careful if you have to make a claim and the vehicle is examined....
SS

heple1983

I TOTALLY AGREE- It is definatly all in the fitting i have fitted many cliffords and also fixed many poor clifford installations. Its amazing the amount of bad fitters there are about and many cliffords are set up with out using the Cliff Net Wizard which in my opinion (Although it is not necessary) is necessary when caliberating all sensors and checking for correct installation!!

The new G5 range are by far superior in my opinion to other brand alarms.

NOTE: Remote Start will invalidate insurance (but who knows its there if its fitted as an extra to a Thatcham CAT1 alarm)

heple1983

Go for the IntelliGaurd 950 and add on Remote Start - Ultimate Security with all the extras !!!!

May be a bit out of your price range though!!!

You could always search ebay for bargin systems and Remote start units then pay to have them fitted (Try eBay.com (US) aswell ) eg Concept series

heple1983

IntelliStart is the reason why the AdvantGuard isn't a CAT 1.

Insurence companies dont like the idea of remote start as it does not aid security of a vehicle (Although it does not hinder).

But as stated it cant really invalidate a cat 1 system unless you tell them you have it - otherwise they wont know. (There not gonna rip the dash to bits on your stolen car to check are they!!!!!!!!)

Sigma Sam

Unless the remote start unit in question has unidentifiable wiring when installed (ie all black) and the relays by-passing the Cat 1 immobiliser are protected in a similar manner to those in the Cat 1 system (ie in a metal enclosure) then it will hinder security; You may as well put a label on each wire stating "Starter Cut Circuit and Fuel Cut Circuit - Please join here"
As you say what they dont find out wont hurt you, but not too many vehicles are stolen with the standard system without the keys these days, so if an inspection on a burnt out vehicle can invalidate a policy and save them paying out £20k who knows!!
SS

stubs

Based on what reason?.. Surely if you're going to pass judgment over a product, you should back it up with facts?

Personally, I haven't had any problems with Cliffords, or Toads.. The problems I have seen in the past have been due to bad fitting, or if the unit has been tampered with.

stubs

The "certain" standards you have to meet to fit a Clifford are nowhere near the standards you have to meet to fit a Toad! Hence the reason why so many people have trouble with the Cliffords.

With the likes of G** Security churning them out by the bucket load, and not paying too much time & attention to the fitting & setting up, its no wonder that so many go wrong. They're only interested in getting the money & moving on the the next punter!

Another thing that people forget, is that the more complex systems take more time to get used to. It's always best to spend some time to familiarise yourself with the product. You should thoroughly read the operating instructions, and learn all the button combinations before driving off. Always get the installer to give you a full run down of both, the work complete, and the initial/basic operating of the system. - The last thing you want, is to be powering down the road, only to realise when the blackjax kicks in, that you don't know how to disarm it!!!

stubs

Toad do not produce any remote start systems, but the Cliffords are compatible with Diesels... they WILL wait for the glow plugs. Also, if for some reason the engine does not start first time, it can be set to retry, upto 3 times.

stubs

Sam, I agree with you about the Thatcham issues, and the laws on leaving an engine running whilst the vehicle is unattended..
But the main purpose of remote engine start are;
~ To warm the engine before driving
~ Warm the cabin & defrost the car in winter
~ Cool the cabin in summer

There is no legislation to prevent you from doing this if the car is on private property i.e. a driveway, or garage.. Which, lets face it, is where most Subaru owners park thier beloved.

If you're worried about the remote start defeating the immobiliser's & making the car insecure, then fit the wireless immobiliser, as this is hard to trace, find & bypass. (IMHO, I wouldn't fit ANY remote start without one!!)

Sigma Sam

Couldm't agree with you more regarding fitting and setting up any system. Unfortunately most people want to pay rock bottom for a product and so something has to give and its usually the time spent on the install and setting up. As ever you always get what you pay for and looking around for the cheapest is not always the best option.

I'll have to check the Construction and Use regs etc tomorrow to see if this applies to public highway and/or private land.... I guess even then there is an argueable point between a drive and a secure compound.
I imagine the whole point of the act would be to prevent public injury from unattended vehicles and to prevent Police resources chasing stolen cars that had been left running, so not sure that where they originated from will make much odds - if they get on the loose then the operator at the time the vehicle was left will be liable.

I understand the reason for the feature, but these were mainly led by another market with different legislation.
Unfortunately as a UK based company (Sigma and Toad) we have to design systems for our market and UK legislation prevents us developing remote start systems, although we can provide outputs to operate one (crazy I know), now maybe if we could get into the US market...

Its bypassing an existing system that worries me. On the wireless immobilisation front, personally that would make sense, but it would be Thatcham you have to convince (or more specifically sign a cheque to and submit a product to test), but as they speak for the Insurance Industry the very thought or possibility of a pay out due to either of the above scenarios will mean a Cat 1 compatible remote start product will never happen in the UK.

Car design is totally controlled by the insurance industry these days, especially in the UK they have every one by the wallet - not just security but bumper height, bonnet height, crumble zones, pedestrian safty etc soon everything will have the same profile coupe, MPV, 4x4.... sad days indeed
SS

stubs

Again, i'm agreeing with on the Thatcham front... It does invalidate Thatcham Category 1, and you're prob correct about Thatcham not being willing to approve them.
I don't know if the intellistart can meet the standards, if modified with black wires & enoclosed relays etc, as I've personally never done this. But I would tend to think that they wouldn't like it!

Correct me if i'm wrong, but most alarm/immob's can be easily bypassed, regardless of the colour of wires. The idea behind black wires, is that is a thief has access to wiring diagrams, he/she cannot identify the wires by colour. So long as you combine the intellistart with a wireless immob, I see no problem, as they cannot trace any wires back to it - eliminating the worry about the coloured wires.

I generally look upon Thatcham approval as a bit of a farse.. If you aren't required it to insure your car.. then don't bother with it.
My insurance does not require the car to be fitted with a CAT1, so I am quite happy with the intellistart/wireless immob that I have fitted.. Its a nice combination of security & convenience.

I'm not sure what you mean about the car getting "on the loose".. The alarm will not allow the car to be started in gear. And if, in the unlikely event, the handbrake was to fail, or was left off.. then surely it would make no odds as to wether the engine was running or not?