Obligatory to carry you driving licence ?
27 December 2002, 11:15 AM
#1
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Good wishes to all 
It turns out that my mother was pulled over by plod recently.
They asked to see her licence. Not surprisingly, she didn't have it with her.
My father (in the passenger seat / having had a dram) had a go at them saying that you (one) had fourteen days to produce your licence and other documents.
The dominant bobbie told him / them that this is up to them (he was also a bit nasty to my mum … but that’s another story).
Subsequently, my dad spoke to a former chief constable (Grampian) and asked him about this. The response was apparently that, indeed, the fourteen day business is discretionary.
My old boy also reckons he's seen something in the P&J* about a guy getting done for not being able to produce his licence on the spot.
I can't believe this ! - any thoughts ?
BTW - I'm posting this here because I'm thinking about the English law / Scottish law thing.
* For West-Coasters, that's the Fit-Like Times
It turns out that my mother was pulled over by plod recently.
They asked to see her licence. Not surprisingly, she didn't have it with her.
My father (in the passenger seat / having had a dram) had a go at them saying that you (one) had fourteen days to produce your licence and other documents.
The dominant bobbie told him / them that this is up to them (he was also a bit nasty to my mum … but that’s another story).
Subsequently, my dad spoke to a former chief constable (Grampian) and asked him about this. The response was apparently that, indeed, the fourteen day business is discretionary.
My old boy also reckons he's seen something in the P&J* about a guy getting done for not being able to produce his licence on the spot.
I can't believe this ! - any thoughts ?
BTW - I'm posting this here because I'm thinking about the English law / Scottish law thing.
* For West-Coasters, that's the Fit-Like Times
27 December 2002, 11:35 AM
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I never carry mine with me, I didn't realise it was a requirement.
Is there a legal requirement to carry it? Is there a penalty for not being able to produce 'on the spot' ?
More to the point, are your folks OK after this ?
Is there a legal requirement to carry it? Is there a penalty for not being able to produce 'on the spot' ?
More to the point, are your folks OK after this ?
27 December 2002, 08:01 PM
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Yes, unless you have a good reason for not having it (such as it being sent to DVLA for change of address etc).
Although I'd be pretty surprised if anyone ever got done for this
Although I'd be pretty surprised if anyone ever got done for this
28 December 2002, 01:00 AM
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164.—(1) Any of the following persons—
(a) a person driving a motor vehicle on a road,
(b) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road,
(c) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use of a motor vehicle on a road, or
(d) a person—
(i) who supervises the holder of a provisional licence while the holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road, or
(ii) whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe was supervising the holder of a provisional licence while driving, at a time when an accident occurred owing to the presence of the vehicle on a road or at a time when an offence is suspected of having been committed by the holder of the provisional licence in relation to the use of the vehicle on a road,
must, on being so required by a constable, produce his licence for examination, so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.
(2) Such a person must in prescribed circumstances, on being so required by the constable, state his date of birth.
(3) If—
(a) a licence has been revoked by the Secretary of State under section 93 or 99 of this Act, and
(b) the holder of the licence fails to deliver it to the Secretary of State in pursuance of the section in question,
a constable may require him to produce it, and upon its being produced may seize it and deliver it to the Secretary of State.
(4) Where a constable has reasonable cause to believe that the holder of a licence, or any other person, has knowingly made a false statement for the purpose of obtaining the grant of the licence, the constable may require the holder of the licence to produce it to him.
(5) Where a person has been required under section 27 of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 to produce a licence to the court and fails to do so, a constable may require him to produce it and, upon its being produced, may seize it and deliver it to the court.
(6) If a person required under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence or state his date of birth to a constable fails to do so he is, subject to subsections (7) and (8) below, guilty of an offence.
(7) Subsection (6) above does not apply where a person required on any occasion under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence—
(a) produces on that occasion a current receipt for the licence issued under section 56 of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and, if required to do so, produces the licence in person immediately on its return at a police station that was specified on that occasion, or
(b) within seven days after that occasion produces such a receipt in person at a police station that was specified by him on that occasion and, if required to do so, produces the licence in person immediately on its return at that police station.
(8) In proceedings against any person for the offence of failing to produce a licence it shall be a defence for him to show that—
(a) within seven days after the production of his licence was required he produced it in person at a police station that was specified by him at the time its production was required, or
(b) he produced it in person there as soon as was reasonably practicable, or
(c) it was not reasonably practicable for him to produce it there before the day on which the proceedings were commenced,
and for the purposes of this subsection the laying of the information or, in Scotland, the service of the complaint on the accused shall be treated as the commencement of the proceedings.
(a) a person driving a motor vehicle on a road,
(b) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road,
(c) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use of a motor vehicle on a road, or
(d) a person—
(i) who supervises the holder of a provisional licence while the holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road, or
(ii) whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe was supervising the holder of a provisional licence while driving, at a time when an accident occurred owing to the presence of the vehicle on a road or at a time when an offence is suspected of having been committed by the holder of the provisional licence in relation to the use of the vehicle on a road,
must, on being so required by a constable, produce his licence for examination, so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.
(2) Such a person must in prescribed circumstances, on being so required by the constable, state his date of birth.
(3) If—
(a) a licence has been revoked by the Secretary of State under section 93 or 99 of this Act, and
(b) the holder of the licence fails to deliver it to the Secretary of State in pursuance of the section in question,
a constable may require him to produce it, and upon its being produced may seize it and deliver it to the Secretary of State.
(4) Where a constable has reasonable cause to believe that the holder of a licence, or any other person, has knowingly made a false statement for the purpose of obtaining the grant of the licence, the constable may require the holder of the licence to produce it to him.
(5) Where a person has been required under section 27 of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 to produce a licence to the court and fails to do so, a constable may require him to produce it and, upon its being produced, may seize it and deliver it to the court.
(6) If a person required under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence or state his date of birth to a constable fails to do so he is, subject to subsections (7) and (8) below, guilty of an offence.
(7) Subsection (6) above does not apply where a person required on any occasion under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence—
(a) produces on that occasion a current receipt for the licence issued under section 56 of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and, if required to do so, produces the licence in person immediately on its return at a police station that was specified on that occasion, or
(b) within seven days after that occasion produces such a receipt in person at a police station that was specified by him on that occasion and, if required to do so, produces the licence in person immediately on its return at that police station.
(8) In proceedings against any person for the offence of failing to produce a licence it shall be a defence for him to show that—
(a) within seven days after the production of his licence was required he produced it in person at a police station that was specified by him at the time its production was required, or
(b) he produced it in person there as soon as was reasonably practicable, or
(c) it was not reasonably practicable for him to produce it there before the day on which the proceedings were commenced,
and for the purposes of this subsection the laying of the information or, in Scotland, the service of the complaint on the accused shall be treated as the commencement of the proceedings.
It also goes on to state that if you produce the licence within 7 days you may use that as a defence in proceedings against you. Which is not the same as saying you haven't committed an offence, just that you have a valid defence which will obviously be looked upon much more leniently than not producing a licence at all.
MOT and insurance don't have to be carried, these are the main reasons for the HO/RT1. I know about this stuff cos I got pulled up about not carrying a licence by a traffic cop before, and he was a "law book" type guy who could probably recite every word of the RTA
. I subsequently looked into it and confirmed what he said - you can be done in theory but realistically it's extremely unlikely the police would waste theirs and the courts time over such a petty issue as long as you produce within 7 days.
29 December 2002, 10:11 AM
#7
If you look closely at the above it states in subsection (8) In proceedings against any person for the offence of failing to produce a licence it shall be a defence for him to show that— (a) within seven days after the production of his licence was required he produced it in person at a police station that was specified by him at the time its production was required.
So in simple terms you are not committing an offence if the license is produced within seven days at a police station of YOUR choice.
That concludes the case for the defence yer 'onnor.
So in simple terms you are not committing an offence if the license is produced within seven days at a police station of YOUR choice.
That concludes the case for the defence yer 'onnor.
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29 December 2002, 02:41 PM
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That states that it's only "a defence" to the alleged offence, to produce the license within 7 days, not an absolution.
So it appears that it is an offence not to carry your license but if you can produce it within 7 days, then they (cops or PF) usually don't bother persuing the offence.
Stuart
So it appears that it is an offence not to carry your license but if you can produce it within 7 days, then they (cops or PF) usually don't bother persuing the offence.
Stuart
29 December 2002, 04:19 PM
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Thanks guys I'm convinced yet still surprised.
In summary, if you're pulled and asked for your licence, say that you're terribly sorry but you don't appear to have it with you.
Taking the subject a bit further, I've heard that the new photo-card licence isn't valid without the paper part. This seems daft since :
CT - Aye, they're fine thanks ... just that wee bit more disillusioned with Grampian police’s way of working. Shame
[Edited by Numptie - 12/29/2002 4:20:12 PM]
I'm convinced yet still surprised.In summary, if you're pulled and asked for your licence, say that you're terribly sorry but you don't appear to have it with you.
Taking the subject a bit further, I've heard that the new photo-card licence isn't valid without the paper part. This seems daft since :
- I thought the point of it was to make it easier to carry
- The paper part is bigger than the old licence
CT - Aye, they're fine thanks ... just that wee bit more disillusioned with Grampian police’s way of working. Shame
[Edited by Numptie - 12/29/2002 4:20:12 PM]
29 December 2002, 04:36 PM
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29 December 2002, 05:05 PM
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I was told by a traffic plod, that the card alone means absolutly nothing without the paper part, and if you dont produce both, you will be done for not producing
I dont carry my licence wth me, too big, and im not leaving it in the car
Steve
I dont carry my licence wth me, too big, and im not leaving it in the car
Steve
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