PSI3

I,ve only been on here a few months but have allready seen several 'group buys' running.
On the radar detector group buy we have just saved £720 as a group, not bad for a few phone calls. Any thoughts on a group buy forum?
simon

Neil Smalley

Great minds think alike, I suggested it to Simon yesterday.

Actually I think a 'Bargains' forum would be more useful as it would cater not just for Group buys, but for offers, discounts on DVD,Video's, Beer etc etc.

ex-webby

OK..

this is a VERY difficult area for us and something I have put considerable thought into.

1) Group Buys are good for the community.
2) They often compete with Advertisers which support scoobynet and make it possible.
3) They are basically free advertising which devalues the paid-for advertising
4) It is so open for abuse by unscrupulous suppliers that ask a friend to start a group buy

I am open to suggestions on this.

On one hand, I want to start a forum to allow the benefits of the group buys to continue, but on the other I am nervous about what it actually means in terms of potentially allowing the abuse of such a free service, and where that might lead.

Suggestions?

Best regards

webmaster

Mark Underwood

Simon

I do not see a problem with group buys especially if a group buy is being sought thru one of the advertisers. Its a good way of having a kind of sale or moving a large amount of goods quickly and efficiently.

I currently have a SPECIAL on offer but take up has been poor...only those who have seen the bulletin on my website.

If group get together sufficient interest to warrant a bulk discount then I am in favour.

I am all for it.

Neil Smalley

Simon,

I understand and agree with what you've said. Which is why I think a Bargains forum would be a better name and purpose.

As for free advertising, that's a tricky question. As it stands now, there's not much to stop any company posting adverts on here, except that it is frowned upon and people soon complain.

Surely it's better for the sponsors to know of any offers going here, so that they can match them than having people arrange them somewhere else.

The best way the sponsors can react to a group buy is to leverage the loyaltly people feel to them and match the other companies offer. It also allows them to publise special offers of their own.

For example. Someone posts a group buy saying fred bloggs and co are offering AP brake kits for 1200 quid. Everyone goes yippee that's cheap.

Someone from the well known and respected suppliers here sees the group buy and goes, Ok we'll do em for 1200 quid too. Who are people going to use? They are going to use the suppliers they know and trust. I.e The ones that frequent here.

Do you have any exclusivity clauses in the contracts that you and sponsors sign?

How about setting it up and seeing how it goes? If sponsors complain then review it, but I would hope none of the suppliers here are afraid of a little healthy competition.

If you have the time, why not moderate it yourself until the concept and practices are bedded in? That way both Scoobynet's, the sponsors and the suppliers interests are protected.


[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 01 May 2001).]

mutant_matt

And perhaps the sponsors of the site should be able to post special offers and the like into this new (if it happens) section?

That way they get maximum return on their investment and a chance to offer deals to the community that we may have missed otherwise.

Do all the main regulars advertise?? I can remember seeing ads for Powerstation, BPM, Scoobysport, WaxWizard....there must be a fair few more as well.

Matt

ex-webby

Hi Chaps

You need to look at this a little deeper (Believe me it's been on my mind constantly for about 4 weeks)..

There *is* something to stop companies advertising on here freely... the moderators. Out of respect for the community and the advertisers that support it, we regularly remove adverts from the forums to protect you from spam and the board from become worthless to advertisers.

We need to generate a substantial ammount of money from the advertising (which we are not doing) in order to cover the costs we are about to endure due to the dramatic increase in traffic and time it takes to run scoobynet.

The whole purpose of the banners is to allow companies to offer their wares to us all in exchange for the financial commitment from them which makes the board possible. Without you, they would not advertise, and without them, the board would not exist.

If a "bargains" section was set up, there would be no need for companies to take out a banner ad to promote their new bargain as they would only have to post a free advert.

You can then say "We can limit it to non-commercial ventures", but how can you tell?

I hate to sound so commercial, but there are some hard truths that we are facing at the moment.

A year ago, scoobynet produced a fifth(!!) of the impressions it does now. The scoobynet server uses THREE TIMES the bandwidth of the next busiest server held in the ENTIRE datacentre that it is hosted in. And that server belongs to Tango, and contains the site they advertise on television costing millions of pounds.

This bandwidth is NOT cheap, and we are having to become more commercially minded in order to maintain the fast, free and reliable service we all enjoy.

Part of this is ensuring that we maximise revenues generated by advertising..

allowing a free forum for advertising bargains will take away our ability to sell advertising for short term campaigns.

Bare in mind also, that we also have to bare the cost of actually marketing and selling to these companies that want to advertise, and it's very hard indeed. But we are doing this behind the scenes so that the community isn't affected and doesn't have to worry about it.

I wish there was an easy way. I wish that scoobynet could generate all this traffic and not cost anything. I wish that it looked after itself rather than needing almost 24 hour a day attention.

I'm not moaning, I wouldn't change it for the world. But I just wanted to make it clear that these decisions are not as clear cut as they seem straight away.

All the best

Simon

PS. If you just took the above into account (like most corporate entities would) you would just ban group buys and ignore requests for a forum. The reason this is so difficult is because I place such a high importance on what is good for the community and group buys clearly are a good way of saving money.

Adam M

Simon,

i understand the predicament.

Why not have a forum that you clear with the sponsors, or make sure the products which the savings are made on are only those not sold by the advertisers.

It may be a rarely used forum but still potentially viable. For example the radar detectors, which advertiser sells them? I cant think of one and therefore cannot see who would be affected.

There have been other group buys that wouldn't be able to say the same about which I agree may have been a touch unfair on certain companies.

CraigH

How about if the Forum is open only to advertisers, but to place a post in there, there is a nominal charge?

Or if a poster makes an enquiry on a group buy, suppliers who are willing to quote can post their intent and mail the originator of the post? Only problem with that would be if it degenerated into a Dutch auction.

Or maybe if you are an actively advertising supplier, you can have 1 "free" Group Buy posting per month?

polarbearit

Right well I thought a bargins or group buy section was a great idea, but I completely understand the business pressure not to do something like this.

Jon

[This message has been edited by polarbearit (edited 01 May 2001).]

ex-webby

Hi Chaps

Thank you for your suggestions..

Adam
Good idea, but it only solves half the problem, it would still be possible for non-advertisers to advertise on scoobynet without needing to pay for a banner.

Craig
You are on the kind of lines I was starting to think of, but was trying to find a way that was fair all round.

If a company is advertising, I would be happy for them to advertise more than one group buy.

The only problem with this is that it means that people wanting to organise group buys for companies that do not already advertise would have to convince them to advertise with scoobynet for a month in order to allow the group buy to go ahead.

I don't really like the sound of that as I don't want to be in the position where I would need to close a group buy thread because the company providing it doesn't advertise. Kind of goes against the whole community aspect of it all.

any more suggestions?

Cheers

Simon

CraigH

I don't think you will ever be able to do it so it is "fair" to everyone.

You just have to go whichever way is least likely to be abused.

How about you have x number of slots per week/month. Paying advertisers get first choice within a given deadlineline. Any slots left can go out to everyone on the forum to fill them. Again, if a supplier wants another slot, he/she gets the choice just like any other poster.

Maybe the timescales could be, you must know who will be offering what by the 5th day of the month. And rotate it like this. Maybe you should restrict it to 2 per week or something. Or maybe 1 per week - if theres too many, I reckon everyone will stop reading.

Or howabout pay a small amount for a half sized banner with all the details.

How about giving each supplier the opportunity to have 1 Group Deal per month, included in the banner.

If all suppliers are in the same boat there can't be any whinging or bad feelings?

And would it be possible to have a "Group buy desired" type counter, where posters click on what they'd like discounted prices on and when a certain number are met, it could be forwarded somehow to the suppliers to enable them to do something?

Tom Evans

I think the idea of a 'group buy' forum is an excellent idea and certainly worth looking into.

However, I can understand the predicament that may put Simon in, re. paying advertisers.

Although I would say that advertisers have to pay to advertise on here, BUT that does mean their banner is on this site 24/7, available for all to see.

If someone recommends a 'bargain', in my opinion, this is not advertising, but publicity. Whatever gets recommended will not last as long as a banner, i.e. it will soon disappear as time goes on and other posts appear, whereas a banner will be up their for considerably longer.

Having said that we cannot overlook the fact that this is free publicity to a business, although people already recommend products on the BBS, but it will be put in a forum instead.

Whatever happens we have to respect Simon's decision, as it is he who loses money if advertisers pull out, etc and this may in turn effect all of us.

Cheers,
Tom