eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

Just had a very interesting email conversation with a guy who bought a Subaru recently which came with a load of receipts, a lot of which appeared to come from us. One in particular was for an engine rebuild - stating the engine was rebuilt using the customers own parts. The price was £3,600 +vat just for labour!

He asked me to confirm a few things, so when I checked the invoice number for the engine rebuild it was actually for a Stage 2 Clutch & Lightweight Flywheel! All the customer details were the same, as is the headder & footer, but the parts & labour description has been changed. When you compare the two invoices side by side its easy to see where the changes have been made - the font for the description is different and the layout is not the same. But if you didn't know what is was supposed to look like you wouldn't be able to tell it was a fake!

Anyway, I have the guy who bought the original parts' name, address & phone number, so ill be giving him a call tomorrow!!

Just thought Id let you know. I'm not sure what we can do stop things like this, but its interesting to know- for both customers & business alike!

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

I'm afraid it's by no means the first or last time things like this will happen,I also have had a buyer of a vehicle come into the workshop to show me the service history[previous 4 years worth by us] to find some of the bills had been altered,one saying HG failure and rebuild which was false

Like you though unless they come to your attention the unsuspecting buyers would believe they have a better car than first thought

scoobyman2007

iTrader: (5)

Not good mate get on him asap

tony de wonderful

Which thread was it? I seem to remember some ebay car which had 1000's worth of receipts but was a shed.

rob84

iTrader: (5)

I'd be getting that seriously looked into, Could potentially be damaging to anyone reputation

chopperman

That's shocking , the things some people will do to drive up the price of their cars. I bet that's not as rare as we would all like to think it is. It'd fraud and should be reported to the police imo.

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

Courts take a very dim view of fraud and rightly so

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Yep one for the police ... wonder if they'll be interested though

TX.

eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

I agree! I have seen a scanned copy of the invoice but he's sending it to me today for me to look at. I guess the difficult part is going to be proving who it was who made the invoice. It may not have been the previous owner as he may have bought the car with that invoice too!

I'm definately going to take this further. If the customs who bought the clutch kit is the previous keeper, then clearly he is the one who made it!

This is the first time I have seen anything like this, but like chopperman said when you think about it it's probably not as rare as I would like to think!!!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

It is certainly fraud and akin to clocking.
I'd involve the police, and if they give you any baloney about it being a civil matter, ask to speak to an inspector.

Ryan@Indigo-GT

iTrader: (4)

I would always recommend anyone buying a car with invoices should call the company it relates too, we often take calls from people just looking for some more information about cars that we've worked on in the past and are more than happy to help

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Can't see the Police taking much notice of this, this sort of stuff happens all the time. I wouldn't waste your time calling the police.
This is why I always check the invoices when buying cars or anything for that matter.
At least the guy was smart enough to ring you and check!

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure if the actual faking of an invoice is an offence, it's when you use it to make a few extra bob that the offence occurs. I think it's "using a false instrument to gain a pecuniary advantage" but may be wrong.

In that case it's the current owner of the car who has to persue the invoice faker as I guess he thinks he has paid for something he hasn't got.

Shaun

CREWJ

As terrible as that sounds, it's probably right. You are allowed to try to scam people but it's only an offence if you succeed.

eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

Thanks guys. I'll pass that info on to the current owner. He bought the car in the belief that the engine had been fully rebuilt based on the receipt he was given, but only realised it was false after the engine blew up and he started to strip it. It was clear it had been a DIY home rebuild job, done very badly!!

So maybe he has a case?!

Evo Son

The new owner should be able to prosecute the seller if its his name on the invoice at the time of when the clutch was billed. He has sold the car using a fraudulent method and sold an item which is clearly not what he claims it to be if that makes sense.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Without police involvement, I can see it being an uphill struggle...

County Court, probably. THEN you have to actually GET the money......

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

As mentione, if true then he has commited 2 criminal offences. One under the Fraud act 2006..

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/s..._by_deception/

And another under Section 3 Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981

Not a civil matter really...

Shaun

cster

You looking for a change in career mate - maybe something involving wearing a wig an referring to the enemy as m'learned friend?

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

I actually come across a number of lawyers in my job..........I wouldn't trust the majority to sit the right way on a lavatory.

I did some work for one a couple of years ago and have yet to be paid

Shaun

specialx

We get this quite a lot either fake photo shopped invoices or power graph's, it can be very damaging for both customers and business owners alike.

We have had customer expecting their cars to be say 400 bhp then having very glum faces when only getting 300 and then showing us a fake graph with our logo on it!

stedee

iTrader: (4)

this does happen alot, i know its happened to me, the trouble is its too late usually to do anything about it once you find out its dodgy

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Forging invoices is a pretty easy thing to do. I mean I've forged parking tickets for a prank on one of my mates and it was a doddle. So teh average laser/ink jet printed A4 invoice is a simple task of scanning the headers/footers and photoshopping the entries.

The best way to help prevent invoice forgery is to have some decent pre-printed stationary (both sides) using somthing that a average home printer cannot replicate (holograms etc) or use a dot matrix printer and carbon copy continuous paper (remember those? ).

Our invoices have a seperate warranty sticker that is hand applied. So it would be difficult to reproduce on a home printer/scanner. Its a pretty simple cost effective way round it.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Forensics probably could identify the type of ink (printer model etc) and brand of paper, but would the police be arsed enough to go to that level of effort?

chopperman

No chance, not unless it was a dealer farming out loads of cars with forged recipes to gain more money. The police probably wouldn't need to go that far though. Copper on the door and an interview at the cop shop is normally all thats needed for a moronic chancer to spill the beans.

zippy!

iTrader: (1)

can you not find out who paid for the clutch on the genuine invoice ie credit card details etc and see if it tallies with the last previous owners name and address? surely that then means it is that person who has forged the document?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

That doesnt prove the purchaser of the clutch did the invoice scam, he could of sold the car to somebody who didnt register it as theirs, who sold it at auction say who again didnt register it as theirs and so on (unless the new owner can prove he bought it off the same guy who bought the clutch that is)

eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

That's exactly what we have just done. The current owner bought the car from a guy who said he bought it with the fake invoice, from the guy named on the invoice for the clutch. So either he is lying and he faked the invoice himself, or the guy who bought the clutch faked the invoice.

I won't let this lie as not only is it bad for our reputation, but also the current owner has been well and truly ripped off.

The net is closing on the person who decided to do it. I, along with the current owner will do everything we can to make sure he lives to regret it!! Hopefully our justice system won't let us down, but that remains to be seen!!

I'll keep you informed.....

Barru Breakers

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear.

As above i would think happens quite a lot.

Although i doubt the highlighted above is a ideal, clever thing to post up on a forum..

eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

Why not?? I can't just sit back and ignore this when I have the name and address of two people, one of which definately committed this crime. We will involve whatever authorities we need to in order to get to the bottom of this and hopefully bring the guilty person to justice.

I think maybe you misunderstood what I meant?