Iain P

I can't really see the point in deleting threads that potentially effect everyone! I think the priority is to protect consumer rights! However, I believe in stating facts and letting people make up their own minds. I would be really peed off if I bought something only to learn that several others had a bad experience of the same product without mentioning it! Suppliers have an OBLIGATION to consumers! We should be sticking together not covering up!

a2jcy

I'll drink to that

p1 media

Hi Iain

I would like to say that as a newcomer to this bbs and to driving a scooby I have found it very encouraging to see which suppliers are worthy of my hard earnt cash, for myself, the complete car novice it has been great to find out which dealers and suppliers are happy to give info and help to the newcomer.

I have ordered most of the "add-ons" to my P1 from the dealer whence it was purchased and they have been more than helpful explaining what exactly the changes they are making to my car will do.

I hope that others will continue to post their dealing with suppliers and dealers on this board so that us newbies can benefit from the groups wider wisdom.

Greg

ex-webby

Iain

As stated in the other post. They were NOT deleted, they were closed.

The reason for this is that they had ALREADY done their job of pointing out the situation (which is the thing you say is a good thing, and we agree), and therefore served no further purpose.

Best regards

webmaster

Iain P

Webmaster, I appreciate your position but as stated in my thread, I would like to keep people informed - can't do that if it's closed. Everyone knows the 'power' of the BBS and we should use it to positive effect and the benefit of it's members. Dave T-S's situation is pretty dire and something that really shouldn't happen. If we stick together I'm sure it will help people like him get a quick and satisfactory resolution. I know there is a balance somewhere and am grateful for the moderation.

ex-webby

Iain

Dave's problem HAS been sorted out. And I am sure that the thread had a lot to do with it. But the work of the thread was already done, so there was no benefit in keeping it open.

Iain... we don't live in an ideal world. Companies take websites to court for this type of thing. I am not spending 5-8 hours a day on something that earns me no money just so I can be taken to court over something that served no purpose anyway.

I let the threads run.. I did NOT mean any specific thread when I closed them.. I simply closed them all to make a stand against the level of threads of that type that had been springing up.

Please realise that everything you say you want has ALREADY been taken care of.

Dave is going to post a thread saying that it is all resolved which mean people will continue to be informed...

If we had left the thread going, no doubt another 10 - 15 posts would be put up saying all sorts of negative things, and it would have done no good except to provide more evidence for a potential slander or libell case against scoobynet.

Running scoobynet is VERY difficult. If only decisions like this were as easy as you are making out.

Regards

Webmaster

Dream Weaver

5-8hrs a day

How do you earn your crust?

DW

JasonHook

It seems to me that we have a spate of these threads recently. I can very much sympathise with those people who have entrusted money to companies and have difficulties. I do think we need to be careful not to over use this facility and undermine any goodwill that exists between suppliers and customers.

BTW I'm not referring to any one post in particular there have been many recently in a couple of the forums.

Jason

Paul Wilson

Jza,

In your lovely fluffy warm and cuddly world that may be possible, to take persoanal responsibility for your actions.

Now back in the real world......

It is possible to be totally anonymous on this BBS. Register a Hotmail, Yahoo, or similar account, then post throuogh an internet cafe paying cash. Simply not possible to trace.

This ingnores the fact what the law states, which is that the publisher (ie Scoobynet, ie SdBanke) is held liable in defamation cases. Think back to recent cases, if the Sun defames someone, do they sue the journalist? nope, the publisher of the paper.

I can't remember the case in detail, from about a year ago, against a website, but the website was sued for what was said on a BBS/group.

Simon walks a thin line, between letting us say what we want, and risking the ire of a company defamed(in their view)

And lets not forget, this is Simons BBS, he owns it.

CraigH

Jza,

I think the point that some of us are trying to make, is that 1 comment can potentially ruin a company. Or seriously damage them.

I agree with the freedom of speech and I can understand that certain customers feel aggrieved at how they've been treated - but I don't think the majority of these issues need to be raised on this BBS when they can be resolved outside.

JasonHook

I think the ISP was Demon. I make Simon right. It is after all his baby.
You get the freedom you pay for, if you feel you aren't getting enough go and start your own forum - I bet you don't.

Jason

SDB

Jza

What a ridiculous set of comments!

I did not at ANY time change any tune. And the reason for that, is I ALWAYS put the good of the community before my own personal ideals and stick to them rigidly. It seems that you however would put your own ideals first.

You said I changed my tune by stating.. "The reason for this is that they had ALREADY done their job of pointing out the situation (which is the thing you say is a good thing, and we agree), and therefore served no further purpose." and then changing my tune and pointing out the truth (in your words) "scared that *** will sue".

Use a bit of common sense...

The first part was simply a statement about why the thread was closed. The second was simply a statement about one of the reasons why it NEEDED to be closed.

"Truth is that the bods in charge of this BBS want freedom of speach to suit them".

No.. it seems that this is in fact what YOU want. As I have stated, I ALWAYS put the good of the community first. Not because I'm a saint or anything (which I am not), but because it is the right and decent thing to do, and something I promised myself when I took it over.

Paul.

Thank you for your support, it is appreciated. I do not see ScoobyNet as *MY* BBS though, as it is nothing without the community. I have just agreed to drive. We all decide where we go (might have to be sideways though )

Best regards

Simon

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dream Weaver:
<B>5-8hrs a day

How do you earn your crust?

DW[/quote]


Yeah - SDB is the ONLY person that spends more time on Scoobynet every day than AWD......

CraigH

I think no matter how good you are or your reputation is, sometimes you slip up.

Scoobymania and Scoobysport spring to mind - both have good reputations and seem to have many happy customers - but it is not possible to keep every single customer happy because some things are out of their control.

The problem is, you air a grievance on this board and it will stick in peoples minds more than the positive comments - which is potentially very damaging for the company concerned.

And I think it's fair to say, all the "offending" companies that have had posts about them, have a large majority of happy customers.

chiark

...and in many memorable cases, the happy majority has backed up a supplier if there has been a problem.

DavidRB

Or joined up like sheep to start a witch-hunt based on unproven allegations.

CraigH

DavidRB

My sentiments exactly.

CraigH

Chiark,

Yes they may back them up, but for a lot of people, especially those that haven't used the mentioned companies, the negative comments will be more dominant than the positive.

You say 1 good thing and 1 bad thing - people will always remember the bad thing.

RichS

DavidRB

I also agreed.

I recall someone telling me that as a company, if you provide excellent service, your customer may tell a friend.
If your service is poor, you customer may tell 5-10 friends.

The power of the internet magnifies this concept many times over.

I agree that in exceptional circumstances, the really bad examples should be publicised, but only after every other avenue is explored.

Is this a community of enthusiasts, or is it Subaru Watchdog?

Rich

robski

What about a simple feedback link.

As anyone who uses ebay will know, after dealing with someone you can leave feedback that affects their rating, positive +1, neutral, or negative -1.

You can only comment once for each supplier when you trade with them (well you can do more, but it doesnt affect their rating).

So if we had something similar, you would be able to see the persistent offenders or good cos by looking at their customers feedback.

Just a thought, maybe something better may spring to mind?

I say this because people have short memories, or are new, and dont know history.

robski

Gerg2

Edited my post AGAIN because I cant choose the right words for this thread....just please be careful how we use scoobynet.

[This message has been edited by Gerg2 (edited 05 April 2001).]

Jza

Webmaster,

Fact is, your scared that *** will sue you and the guy who wrote the comments. Why do you have to give us the BS about (and i quote):

"The reason for this is that they had ALREADY done their job of pointing out the situation (which is the thing you say is a good thing, and we agree), and therefore served no further purpose."

You then change your tune and point out the truth. You dont want trouble. Why not say that in the first place. There so much B*****t in each section you'd have to close down every thread on the BBS to stop it!!!

Truth is that the bods in charge of this BBS want freedom of speach to suit them - anything else they close you down. I got a topic closed for making a joke that webmaster took as a major threat to the good clean image of the BBS.

I think you should be able to post what you like but accept that you personally are responsible for those words. If some shop gives bad service, i want to know about it. Period. Thats what a forum like this is about - otherwise why bother?

Flame suit ready but i agree with Iain P

Jza



[This message has been edited by Jza (edited 05 April 2001).]

robski

Iain P,

you need to bear in mind the difference between deleting and locking a thread.

If its deleted its gone, this is against freedom of speech IMHO.

Locking a thread means it is still there for all to read and take an opinion from. It just stops the potential for someone else to post a reply (its to all intents and purposes like putting a notice in a newspaper).

What Si says is correct in that that thread needed to be closed. But thats it.

Were you around when scoobynet was taken down previously? If not, you wont realise that for most of us, it was as un-natural as loosing a limb, I for one dread a day that that could ever happen again!

Keep up the good work webbie (sir!)

robski

Beef

Is the moon blue? Must be - I'm posting

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that if a tuner messes you up, you take it up with them.

If they don't deal with things to your satisfaction (and you have a valid complaint), or they ignore you, and you know they visit a board, then I see no problem with using the board to alert people to their sub-standard service or attempt to get a response.

However, you shouldn't create a witch-hunt, which is easily solved by merely closing the thread. If updates need to be made, for example the tuner comes good and makes up for all tuhe bad things, then webbie can unclose the thread, make an update on your behalf, and close it again.

Presto - freedom of speech is maintained, but without the legal implications.

Paul W - you're thinking of the Renault GT Turbo owners club, who were sued I believe by GT Tuning. The sorry outcome of that is that *all* messages to their BBS are moderated, and must be individually approved before being posted. I don't think anyone wants that to happen to scoobynet.

Blow Dog

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by robski:
<B>its to all intents and purposes like putting a notice in a newspaper[/quote]

I like that.

Also, this is the link you should all read.

Its a

pat

Once again it is proven that technology isn't the problem (is it ever?) and that dinosaur of an institution known as the legal system is hopelessly out of touch. But not to worry... it currently all boils down to facts that you can prove.

A statement cannot be libelous if it can be proven to be true, because then it is a statement of fact and beyond question... "it is the way it is". So, if you (for example) have some tuning done by a company and your car blows up, then you post "this company blew my car up" then that would be libelous because you cannot prove it. If you post "I had this done, and so many days later the car blew up" then it is not liblelous... you can prove that the work was done (invoice), and you can prove that the car has blown up (obvious to any technically competent person looking at it); it is then just a statement of fact. Other may draw whatever conclusion they want.

So choose words and phrasing carefully, and enjoy the full protection of the law... or get ready to be sued

Cheers,

Pat.