Base OS Maps / ECU tuning
15 April 2011, 12:00 PM
#1
Base OS Maps / ECU tuning
Hi,
so I've got somebody who is willing to tinker with their car and has done some swatting on the ECU tuning guides etc. They have had good success with their own car but I I want to let them play around with my car.
I wonder if anybody has a good base map for a MY01 bugeye UK WRX?
There's a lot out ther for the US market and STI's but nothing for mine.
I know about the risks etc but I trust this guy
What have people managed to get performance wise whilst doing it themselves? I gather RomRaider is the tool of choice for many?
Thanks
Jai
so I've got somebody who is willing to tinker with their car and has done some swatting on the ECU tuning guides etc. They have had good success with their own car but I I want to let them play around with my car.
I wonder if anybody has a good base map for a MY01 bugeye UK WRX?
There's a lot out ther for the US market and STI's but nothing for mine.
I know about the risks etc but I trust this guy
What have people managed to get performance wise whilst doing it themselves? I gather RomRaider is the tool of choice for many?
Thanks
Jai
15 April 2011, 12:11 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Opening a can of worms here......
IMO, mapping is not something you should 'let anyone do'. Think of the risks involved.
I dont turn round to my girlfriend who's a vet and say, "honey, let me operate on that racehorse, I have watched a few vet programs so I know what I'm doing......"
Leave it to the professionals and enjoy a car thats been mapped properly.
IMO, mapping is not something you should 'let anyone do'. Think of the risks involved.
I dont turn round to my girlfriend who's a vet and say, "honey, let me operate on that racehorse, I have watched a few vet programs so I know what I'm doing......"
Leave it to the professionals and enjoy a car thats been mapped properly.
15 April 2011, 12:13 PM
#3
Hit here here is full list ECU ROM and you can download ECU ROM /base map
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList
Jura
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList
Jura
15 April 2011, 12:22 PM
#4
Opening a can of worms here......
IMO, mapping is not something you should 'let anyone do'. Think of the risks involved.
I dont turn round to my girlfriend who's a vet and say, "honey, let me operate on that racehorse, I have watched a few vet programs so I know what I'm doing......"
Leave it to the professionals and enjoy a car thats been mapped properly.
IMO, mapping is not something you should 'let anyone do'. Think of the risks involved.
I dont turn round to my girlfriend who's a vet and say, "honey, let me operate on that racehorse, I have watched a few vet programs so I know what I'm doing......"
Leave it to the professionals and enjoy a car thats been mapped properly.
Ultimately I am happy to run the risk so suggestions welcom eon the rest
15 April 2011, 12:23 PM
#5
Hit here here is full list ECU ROM and you can download ECU ROM /base map
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList
Jura
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList
Jura
15 April 2011, 12:47 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
sounds exactly the same situation as a company that got setup in the midlands. 7 blown up cars later they went out of business, takes a split second to blow you the engine if the maps wrong.
so its a very real risk
so its a very real risk
Trending Topics
15 April 2011, 12:50 PM
#8
To be honest I probably want to get some logging data out of it - my car has gone from 2.5" to a 3" system with a decat on the centre section. I'm now getting overfuelling (strong petrol smell from cabin) and unsure if its coincidence or connected.
I got the car from Carcraft (stupid I know) and somebody did tell me I have a non-stock programmed ECU so I think somewhere it's causing issues?
15 April 2011, 12:53 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
tbh it sounds like you need to get it checked out professionaly first to find out about the fueling. i realy think your gonna be back on in a few months saying engines gone bang, hope not but i wouldn't be suprised 
.
not sure why they'd dick around with the ecu tbh, unless its ppp'd
.not sure why they'd dick around with the ecu tbh, unless its ppp'd
15 April 2011, 12:56 PM
#10
tbh it sounds like you need to get it checked out professionaly first to find out about the fueling. i realy think your gonna be back on in a few months saying engines gone bang, hope not but i wouldn't be suprised .
not sure why they'd dick around with the ecu tbh, unless its ppp'd
.not sure why they'd dick around with the ecu tbh, unless its ppp'd
15 April 2011, 01:15 PM
#13
I would recommend sign/log in on OpenECU.org or RomRaider forum and where you can learn some tricks how to do without blowing engine etc.
Some guys here still living in Classic era where one option has been only EcuTek or aftermarket ECU...
Jura
Some guys here still living in Classic era where one option has been only EcuTek or aftermarket ECU...
Jura
15 April 2011, 01:17 PM
#14
Initially all we'll be doing is logging and smoothing the main table (can't remember the name off-hand!)
15 April 2011, 01:30 PM
#15
Engine Specialist
In terms of tuning your own car I'd say go for it, but with certain warnings to take heed from. There are two big things that will kill your engine, a lean running situation and detonation. Those two things you must have a wideband lambda sensor for and electronic det cans, if you have those, you have half a chance to getting it right.
When I tune a car, the first thing I will do is check general sensor readings, maf, coolant temp and boost profile and blast it through it's paces listening to the amount of noise through the det cans and what my wideband tells me about the fueling. If all these things add up to a healthy car in standard form I will crack on with mapping. I'd say 50% of my mapping time is problem solving for leaks, lack of power, stumbling and miss-reading sensors, so this is the place to start.
The bugeye as standard has probably the worst standard map on from the factory in terms of ignition trim and fueling. As with any tuner I usually start from a decent base map of my own and tailor to suit the car and fuel.
Your other problem is measuring performance difference in terms of power increase. After all of this you might find it feels quicker and goes better, but you have no idea what the car will be putting out. Sometimes the difference between 240-270bhp can be just a few degrees ignition timing advance. With enough octane booster in the fuel you can make it not det limited, which means you will advance the ignition past the point of maximum power and it will drop off in performance. Again with no way to measure this you may as well stick your finger out the window and make up a number!
In terms of programs, you can use Rom raider and EcuFlash which are free and not bad for basic changes and logging, but most professional open source tuners use EcuEdit as the logging ability is far superior and ultimately you spend most of your time logging parameters rather than changing them.
Ultimately mapping is not a black art, or rocket science itself, however experienced ears and understanding intimately what you're working on is what you pay for professionally.
Hope this helps,
Graham
When I tune a car, the first thing I will do is check general sensor readings, maf, coolant temp and boost profile and blast it through it's paces listening to the amount of noise through the det cans and what my wideband tells me about the fueling. If all these things add up to a healthy car in standard form I will crack on with mapping. I'd say 50% of my mapping time is problem solving for leaks, lack of power, stumbling and miss-reading sensors, so this is the place to start.
The bugeye as standard has probably the worst standard map on from the factory in terms of ignition trim and fueling. As with any tuner I usually start from a decent base map of my own and tailor to suit the car and fuel.
Your other problem is measuring performance difference in terms of power increase. After all of this you might find it feels quicker and goes better, but you have no idea what the car will be putting out. Sometimes the difference between 240-270bhp can be just a few degrees ignition timing advance. With enough octane booster in the fuel you can make it not det limited, which means you will advance the ignition past the point of maximum power and it will drop off in performance. Again with no way to measure this you may as well stick your finger out the window and make up a number!
In terms of programs, you can use Rom raider and EcuFlash which are free and not bad for basic changes and logging, but most professional open source tuners use EcuEdit as the logging ability is far superior and ultimately you spend most of your time logging parameters rather than changing them.
Ultimately mapping is not a black art, or rocket science itself, however experienced ears and understanding intimately what you're working on is what you pay for professionally.
Hope this helps,
Graham
Last edited by EngineMapper @ Group B Motorsport; 15 April 2011 at 01:32 PM.
15 April 2011, 01:57 PM
#16
Graham - thanks for taking the time to write a helpful reply - speaks lots for your professionalism to help somebody looking to get started rather than waving the finger and saying no no 
I have not bothered looking for a lambda sensor as the Romraider guides etc typically say its not needed for a stage 1 tune? How much are these to purchase? If they're cheap then I may get just to be doubly sure.
Having looked at the 'bad Noodle' guide on the forums they talk about smoothing out existing problems and draw little reference to det cans etc. Do you think for a simple 'log and check' we would still need these? I can get a stethescope too - I presume this would be up for the job?
Initally we're hoping to read the ECU, back it up. Then compare the base one on the link Jura's pasted in above to the one I have. I have a feeling mine will vary as I've always had issues with the car. As it's a base map from factory I presume there's very little that can go wrong as in essence I'm doing a factory reset?
We will always tune well before the limits and will be doing things in the following order:
establish AFR
tune boost
tune fuel
timing
avcs
retune fuel and timing
I know without a rolling road etc I can't measure differences but to me, just driving the car will give some feedback - as long as it feels better on the road that's the main thing.
Like you say, it's not a black art and the reason you pay professionals is for their experience and skills - but as even with you - we all have to start somewhere
thanks again for the advice and pointers - will definatly take note of them!
I have not bothered looking for a lambda sensor as the Romraider guides etc typically say its not needed for a stage 1 tune? How much are these to purchase? If they're cheap then I may get just to be doubly sure.
Having looked at the 'bad Noodle' guide on the forums they talk about smoothing out existing problems and draw little reference to det cans etc. Do you think for a simple 'log and check' we would still need these? I can get a stethescope too - I presume this would be up for the job?
Initally we're hoping to read the ECU, back it up. Then compare the base one on the link Jura's pasted in above to the one I have. I have a feeling mine will vary as I've always had issues with the car. As it's a base map from factory I presume there's very little that can go wrong as in essence I'm doing a factory reset?
We will always tune well before the limits and will be doing things in the following order:
establish AFR
tune boost
tune fuel
timing
avcs
retune fuel and timing
I know without a rolling road etc I can't measure differences but to me, just driving the car will give some feedback - as long as it feels better on the road that's the main thing.
Like you say, it's not a black art and the reason you pay professionals is for their experience and skills - but as even with you - we all have to start somewhere
thanks again for the advice and pointers - will definatly take note of them!
In terms of tuning your own car I'd say go for it, but with certain warnings to take heed from. There are two big things that will kill your engine, a lean running situation and detonation. Those two things you must have a wideband lambda sensor for and electronic det cans, if you have those, you have half a chance to getting it right.
When I tune a car, the first thing I will do is check general sensor readings, maf, coolant temp and boost profile and blast it through it's paces listening to the amount of noise through the det cans and what my wideband tells me about the fueling. If all these things add up to a healthy car in standard form I will crack on with mapping. I'd say 50% of my mapping time is problem solving for leaks, lack of power, stumbling and miss-reading sensors, so this is the place to start.
The bugeye as standard has probably the worst standard map on from the factory in terms of ignition trim and fueling. As with any tuner I usually start from a decent base map of my own and tailor to suit the car and fuel.
Your other problem is measuring performance difference in terms of power increase. After all of this you might find it feels quicker and goes better, but you have no idea what the car will be putting out. Sometimes the difference between 240-270bhp can be just a few degrees ignition timing advance. With enough octane booster in the fuel you can make it not det limited, which means you will advance the ignition past the point of maximum power and it will drop off in performance. Again with no way to measure this you may as well stick your finger out the window and make up a number!
In terms of programs, you can use Rom raider and EcuFlash which are free and not bad for basic changes and logging, but most professional open source tuners use EcuEdit as the logging ability is far superior and ultimately you spend most of your time logging parameters rather than changing them.
Ultimately mapping is not a black art, or rocket science itself, however experienced ears and understanding intimately what you're working on is what you pay for professionally.
Hope this helps,
Graham
When I tune a car, the first thing I will do is check general sensor readings, maf, coolant temp and boost profile and blast it through it's paces listening to the amount of noise through the det cans and what my wideband tells me about the fueling. If all these things add up to a healthy car in standard form I will crack on with mapping. I'd say 50% of my mapping time is problem solving for leaks, lack of power, stumbling and miss-reading sensors, so this is the place to start.
The bugeye as standard has probably the worst standard map on from the factory in terms of ignition trim and fueling. As with any tuner I usually start from a decent base map of my own and tailor to suit the car and fuel.
Your other problem is measuring performance difference in terms of power increase. After all of this you might find it feels quicker and goes better, but you have no idea what the car will be putting out. Sometimes the difference between 240-270bhp can be just a few degrees ignition timing advance. With enough octane booster in the fuel you can make it not det limited, which means you will advance the ignition past the point of maximum power and it will drop off in performance. Again with no way to measure this you may as well stick your finger out the window and make up a number!
In terms of programs, you can use Rom raider and EcuFlash which are free and not bad for basic changes and logging, but most professional open source tuners use EcuEdit as the logging ability is far superior and ultimately you spend most of your time logging parameters rather than changing them.
Ultimately mapping is not a black art, or rocket science itself, however experienced ears and understanding intimately what you're working on is what you pay for professionally.
Hope this helps,
Graham
15 April 2011, 02:01 PM
#18
I know it's not the same thing but the inclination is there and although I'm messing around with something a lot bigger and more pricey - the same principles apply for me:
Have a method
Be logical so you can retrace steps and identify where issues occurred
Always backup
Double check twice
Don't rush - progress will be slow
I welcome everybody's comments, even the 'doubters' - I just hope they can be proved wrong lol
15 April 2011, 02:03 PM
#19
By nature I am a messer - I like pulling things apart and never keep anything in standard form, be that my PC, router, AV kit etc etc.
I know it's not the same thing but the inclination is there and although I'm messing around with something a lot bigger and more pricey - the same principles apply for me:
Have a method
Be logical so you can retrace steps and identify where issues occurred
Always backup
Double check twice
Don't rush - progress will be slow
I welcome everybody's comments, even the 'doubters' - I just hope they can be proved wrong lol
I know it's not the same thing but the inclination is there and although I'm messing around with something a lot bigger and more pricey - the same principles apply for me:
Have a method
Be logical so you can retrace steps and identify where issues occurred
Always backup
Double check twice
Don't rush - progress will be slow
I welcome everybody's comments, even the 'doubters' - I just hope they can be proved wrong lol
15 April 2011, 02:53 PM
#21
I sucessfully tweaked my 03 wrx, but basically followed known tuning settings, I fitted all mechanical parts from ppp setup and applied a ppp map from an identical car, just done a few logs to set boost as I needed to adjust the actuator about 1 1/2 turns to peak at 1.3 bar then done a few more logs and used learning view a few times to see how the fuel trims and knock correction were coping, I basically ended up with a ppp car for less than £250 on mods, but if you want to go further than this then a wideband as a minimum would be required as I don't think I did anything different to what a Subaru dealer would do to fit a ppp, only thing is I was lucky and got the map for free,
I did later fit a ppp sportcat and tweak the map a little to suit this but ended up removing it and putting back to ppp spec when I sold it, I had no issues at all, but when I had my jdm sti I chose to let duncan map it as it was cheaper and less hassle than buying the equipment to do the job properly and I doubt I would have got the same results in a short period of time as his experience is what I was paying for.
But if you take your time and don't expect immediate results and can commit time to the project then I would say give it a go, but if you start fitting induction kits etc and need the maf scaling then you will probably go out of your depth very quickly.
Darren
I did later fit a ppp sportcat and tweak the map a little to suit this but ended up removing it and putting back to ppp spec when I sold it, I had no issues at all, but when I had my jdm sti I chose to let duncan map it as it was cheaper and less hassle than buying the equipment to do the job properly and I doubt I would have got the same results in a short period of time as his experience is what I was paying for.
But if you take your time and don't expect immediate results and can commit time to the project then I would say give it a go, but if you start fitting induction kits etc and need the maf scaling then you will probably go out of your depth very quickly.
Darren
15 April 2011, 03:13 PM
#24
Just had a quick reach-around under the dashboard during lunch and no obvious signs of plugs I need to connect together in my bug. Are they on drivers or passenger side?
It was only a quick poke but will have a proper look when I get home
I know I have to do the shorting of pins on my model too
It was only a quick poke but will have a proper look when I get home
I know I have to do the shorting of pins on my model too
15 April 2011, 03:16 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
The OP accepts the risks and let's be honest, whilst it takes experience and knowledge to do it safely and well it's hardly brain surgery is it.
Some people on here put ECU mappers up there with Sir Issac Newton!
Some people on here put ECU mappers up there with Sir Issac Newton!
15 April 2011, 03:17 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Just had a quick reach-around under the dashboard during lunch and no obvious signs of plugs I need to connect together in my bug. Are they on drivers or passenger side?
It was only a quick poke but will have a proper look when I get home
I know I have to do the shorting of pins on my model too
It was only a quick poke but will have a proper look when I get home
I know I have to do the shorting of pins on my model too
My post deleted, anyway on a bugeye theres a obd11 connector as said above.