dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I was not going to bother mentioning this but it's been eating away at me and today the balance has been tipped.

About a month ago I spoke to Chy @ Pennine Subaru with regard to having a closed deck 2.0L I have converted to a closed Deck 2.5L

On the phone he was very helpful but was trying to convince me to have a full engine build done. This wasnt just building the block but completely overhauling the heads too. Anyway the conversation ended with me agreeing to go and see him and discuss things with him. I said I'd drop in at some point as I have a client over that way. Today I did just that (100mile round trip).

Long story short the fella couldnt have been more un willing to help if he tried. I got there and his first words were "you've caught me at a really bad time, I've only been back from holiday five hours" He also said he had a break down to go to but was pissing about grinding some material off a new intercooler pipe. (hardly urgent breakdown behaviour)
He asked me to bare with him which I duly did. Anyway after waiting 10 minutes or so he came out and wanted to know what I wanted.

Basically I told him that I wanted a closed deck block bored and sleeved to 2.5L, converted to rear thrust and machined for 14mm Head studs.

I then got the sales patter about it would be better if he built the whole engine. I told him all I wanted was the engineering work done.

I mentioned that I would get the bores honed locally when I had bought the pistons. Chy then began backing away from the job making excuses about not letting third parties hone the bores etc. So I said OK I'll provide pistons too so you could hone the bores yourself to match the pistons.

It was at this point I got the sales patter again about how it would be better if he built the engine and he wouldnt like anyone to build it because it was their reputation on the line.

Basically he was saying that anyone else apart from him wasnt capable of building a subaru engine.

It proper pissed me off. There I was wanting about £1500 worth of work doing and he wouldnt do it because i wouldnt spend another £2-3K for him to do the whole job. I could have talked him into it but my attitude to that is why on earth should I have to talk someone into doing some work for me? I realise the bloke just couldnt be arsed so I looked him in the eye said "no problem" and got in my car and drove off.

That's one gripe out of the way. The other I wont name but they quoted for about £5k's worth of bits for me. I've rang a couple of times (no answer) and sent a couple of emails to make sure they've got the parts in for my visit as its a 240mile round trip for me to go and get them. No reply to the emails either.

I'm not wanting the earth from these companies but I would like them to get the fecking basics right. i.e be willing to do the work they are capable of even if I don't want a full engine build. I would also like them to have the courtesy to return phone calls and reply to fecking e-mails. It's not difficult to do.

In the past I've always recommended these to other people but that aint happening anymore.

From now on I'm sticking with the one company that's always, replied to emails, returned phone calls, shared their knowledge and given advice sometimes for nothing in return and often over the phone when they know they aren't really going to benefit from it. They've also always delivered the right parts and on time. RCM really do take some beating.


There's a reason RCM have the fantastic reputation they have and that's because they get the basics right and treat every customer like you're their only one. Whilst I have bought a fair few parts from them over the years I've never spent massive amounts of money there but they have always given me exemplary service no matter how small or how trivial my enquiry.

As for Chy @ Pennine and A.N Other I would have been spending a fair amount of money with both outfits but why on earth should I give them a penny of my hard earned.

If they can't be arsed then neither can I.

A very disgruntled Daz

Joek101

I totally agree with you on the courtesy point mate. I'm currently looking to get some work done, probably looking at throwing about £2-3k at it.

My first stop was my nearest specialist (who id just spent the best part of £1k with getting a major service and some repair work done). I called, no-one available to speak to me. Told to speak to someone when i come in. Drop my car off and the guys too busy to talk to me. Talk to him when u collect they say. Come to collect, he's to busy again buy says will phone me over the weekend, the latest monday. That was about a month ago, still no call.... I was really disappointed with this as they're very local and have a very good reputation, but i felt like i was having to chase them to take my business

I then decided to email a few companies to ask for some quotes and again had disappointing results. Several didnt get back to me, some were really slow and just said ring us up despite me giving a detailed breakdown of what i wanted and asking for a quote. Perhaps maybe someone might say i'll give you a call about this, give me your number, and then actually get back to me...

I will single out Powerstation and TSL for the best responses and being the most helpful

As for the rest i think you guys need to take a lesson in customer service. Given the recession i thought people would be eager for all the business they could get. It seems like im having to beg most of these companies to take money off me

TH3_5T1G

iTrader: (15)

Hi Daz,

Don't mean for this to sound rude in saying so but i think it's a bit unfair to name Penine subaru, or more specifically Chy (who i've only heard bad things about on this forum) and not the other tuner that wasn't very helpful.

I'm not saying it's unfair on Chy, i mean if that is really how he treats his customers then it is to be expected. I'm saying it's unfair on all others that may be thinking of or are already having dealings with the other tuner and have a right to know what he is like too.

Love your car BTW

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I see what you're saying mate. But not returning phone calls or replying to emails is, in my eyes, nowhere near as bad as virtually saying "i'm not going to do work on your block because you'll f*ck it up and we'll get the blame for it" That's a dreadful attitude to have with customers and deserves naming and shaming.

TH3_5T1G

iTrader: (15)

Yeh, fair point well made.
I have to admit i'm quite glad you named RCM for excellence as i've purchased a 'used' RCM400 turbo and did contemplate on giving them a call for a bit of advice on what to expect and what the best mods to run alongside it would be.
Have you found a place for the engineering work you were looking for anyhows?

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I'm going to see a local firm next week. I've had some done from them before and they looked to be excellent I just never got to use them. I thought I'd give Chy a go though because everyone who's had an engine from him, well almost everyone, have said its been excellent. All i wanted though was the engineering work done.

iscooby

Totally agree with you Daz.

I can't believe how some places wont even return a call/email ?? Its up to them I guess but I wont be spending my money with them !!!!

I use RCM now as they always go the extra mile. Cant recomend them enough.

Splitpin

Agree with your sentiments 100%, but, playing devil's advocate for a second, I can only point you in the direction of the fun and games on the Type R Brad/Area 52 thread for a possible reason why some tuners may adopt the attitude you've reported.

I'm not saying that it's entirely legitimate or an excuse, nor am I commenting on the rights and wrongs of what's going on elsewhere, but that other thing does show what can happen when questions of liability get blurred by the fact that more than one company has an involvement in an engine build that ultimately goes pop.

Can't help but agree with the Stig too. If the entire topic of your thread is a remark on what you consider is the poor attitude of two separate companies, only mentioning one by name seems almost unfair - not so much to Pennine, but to the readers who'd like to use your experience to inform their own choices.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Trust me had the other company made me feel like pennine did today they'd hav got a mention too.

As for Chy not willing to do work because it might damage is reputation if i f*ck the rest job up is like cosworth not selling me pistons in case I damage their reputation.

+Doc+

I think this is you best option.
At the end of the day an engine builder will want to build an engine, a specialist in re boring just wants to re bore, etc etc stick with what people know and prefer to do and you can't go far wrong.

bigsinky

**** me pennine seem to be having a torrid time at the moment.

Mus

iTrader: (2)

i have a lot of friends that get there cars tuned i have heard horror stories where companies put the phone down on people and over qoute if they dont want to deal with the customer for what ever reason. for some reason in the subaru scene customer service is so poor that i sometimes get a better service from tesco staff. theres only 3 tuners i would deal with and to be honest once youve found some one good stick to them rather than always changing. Good luck with your build mate

i am suprised about chy ive delt with him before and he seemed really cool to deal with.

mus

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Perhaps he should get his fooking act together then.
By practically telling me to get lost for fear of me damaging his reputation if I **** the build up of a block he's modified has probably done his reputation more damage than the remote possibilty of my build actually going wrong.

Don't get me wrong Chy was polite enough. I just found it offensive that he thought I'd **** the build up. The only way he'd get the blame for anything going wrong is if the liners dropped or there was a flaw in his workmanship. Also the only way he'd do the engineering work I wanted was if he would do the actual full engine build that would probably of cost me atleast another thousand pounds or so.

I'll get it sorted one way or the other.

Zod.

Daz, ditch the car, mate.

Time for another gixxer

wrighty338

iTrader: (33)

like tuners dont charge enough anyhow...then they wana rob you off even more.

G00ner

I can fully understand why he (Chy) only wants to do all the work, his engine would only be as good as the weakest link, then the mud slinging starts etc.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like you need a pure machinists rather than a tuner with machining capabilities.

If Chys machine shop is only geared up to work on small batches of work that fit in with engine building, then perhaps the margins for your work weren't seen as very high and so it was built up into a full build job?
If that was the case though, a simple admission that the job wasn't worth it may have been more helpful to you.

Nick

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

daz,i wont even begin to tell you the problems i have had with an engine build with chy and beleive me when you walked away you made the best move you will ever make.as for customer service goes i once phoned him to ask how far he was with rebuilding my engine(for the third time)and he said he had more important people to deal with first and it would get done when it got done.now if that is how you talk to your customers then i must be doing something wrong.the trouble with chy is he has so many people bigging him up that he gets all the buisness he needs so he thinks he can talk to you however he wants.

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Daz I have no connection with Chy but look at it from his perspective I know people have bits done here and there and then get a third party to do the build but could it just be that he is a perfectionist and has a genuine passion for building engines and likes to see a build from start to finish if it works well and delivers he can put his name to it.On another side to the coin I know when I have been away I come back to work my mail box is chokka with production/safety problems which I have to deal with straight away and this is still with people coming in on the day to day work and its very hard to juggle both together.

bugeye69r

I am new to the scooby family but have spoke to Graham Good Racing an a few occasions they seem to be very good, any news or advice with these chaps

n one

iTrader: (5)

I`m looking to have some work done and have researched a few `specialists` so here`s another one to cross off the list then, Pennine along with the chavly named Area52. I once made the mistake of using ScoobyClinic too with the thinking "Ah it wont happen to me" . . but it did Having used PowerStation and RCM in the past I think I know where I`ll be spending my money. It`s always good to hear about other peoples experiences with these so called `tuners / specialists` either good or bad

ScoobyNudge

iTrader: (4)

well I have used graham gode racing for some servicing parts which I bought from their site on ebay and service was excellent I bough oil filter/sump washer, fuel filter and air filter all for £17 delivered.

No experience on them with engines though!

To be honest I think that if chy was just gonna do the machining work he could have had said in a written agreement that if the build goes wrong he would only be liable for parts or failiures that he had done nothing more and had got you to sign it surley that is problem solved!

Then his reputation could remain intact with regards of anything else other than what he done that had failed if this makes sense.

stuart2008sti

iTrader: (1)

Dont these people realize that they are in the service industry and providing a service,but are clearly not doing this.So what else do they have to offer.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Have to agree with Daz on this one. Quite a while ago I was exploring engine rebuild options and among others, was strongly recommended to contact Chy at Pennine. When I finally tracked him down on the phone, he (to be fair) spent a bit of time discussing what he could do although was a bit vague on costs (something that's actually quite important to us non-millionaires out there!). The problem came when I asked for some kind of actual quote - it just never came despite me chasing it up endlessly with numerous calls and emails. A year and 3 months on, guess what - still no quote! Of course, I'd long decided against using him anyway because IMO, if you're thinking of spending well in excess of £5K, the least you can expect is something in writing...

p1doc

i have dealt with tsl and they are spot on but are by their own admissions a bit expensive but worth it for the quality-my scooby has near 90,000 miles on a tsl chargecooler with no probs
thought well of powerstation but having to wait 3 weeks for 1 ast strut to be rebuilt instead of promised 2 day turn around has p*ssed me right off
lateral seem spot on with mark giving honest advice-just dont ask for discounts lol
martin

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Daz, to be fair, it sounds like you just pitched up and expected Chy to drop everything to talk to you. Despite that and the fact that he was clearly busy after just getting back from holiday, he still came out to chat to you after 10 minutes. Would Matt or Olly at RCM have dropped eveything within 10 minutes to chat to you if you just arrived without calling ahead first?
I also understand his reluctence to only do part of the work, as we both know how the crap gets thrown around when something goes wrong and all parties involved are likely to get covered whether they are at fault or not. He was honest with you about this, so I am not sure why it has upset you so much.

TBH, a company not returning my calls or emails when I was ordering £5k of parts would have pissed me off a whole lot more.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

the reason you didnt get that quote is so he can do what he did to me.he told me the price of the build,and with his own words he said that will be to the nearest penny as he has done this so many times.when the build was finished and i had paid him the cash he said he couldnt work out how he had worked out the price and needed another £500.now like an idiot i didnt want him to be out of pocket and i paid him the extra cash,if only i had known how much trouble i was going to have with the engine he built me he wouldnt have got nothing.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Sorry but I agree with the Cosworth argument, Chy could liner my block and a local muppet COULD screw up the honing.... and the COSWORTH name would be irrelevant.

As for the way you treat potential customers, that's the MOST important detail, I've been annoying Alan J. @ Enginetuner about a 2.1 engine build, and he's replied at all times of the day and night. Worth the hundreds of miles to get down there, IMHO.

As for a quote, Alan J. can recite from memory the prices of most of the components used, and he's all to willing to specify details like, block painting and head work.

dunx

P.S. I feel a project coming on....

mak24seven

iTrader: (1)

A large number of garages use the bull sh*t baffles approach which inturn impresses the uninitiated into a sudden uncontrollable brown toungeing of said company, it seems to me you no your stuff and a lot of companys in whatever trade tend to fear the more knowledgeable people and hence an attitude of "get lost" can be experienced.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Five minutes of his time was all i wanted. He's already had said to jut pop over and see him, I did just that. It was an engineering job not an engine building job. What would you do if you went to an engineering firm for a hone of some cylinders and they said sorry we wont do it unless we buil the whole engine?? It's like going to tescos to buy all the ingredients for a meal and them turning round and saying sorry we won't sell you that unless we prepare it and cook it for you.

To be honest what's pissed me off more is that we discussed my requirements on the phone. He had his chance to tell me then. Its the fact i drove over there and it was a complete and utter waste of time.

It's also the very point I am making, both Matt and Olly would take the time to talk to me. They have done such a thing many times. Even at Time Attack they both take the time to say hello and have a quick chat. To me that's the difference between the best in the business and the arsehole tuning companies out there.