Ferking Tuning Companies
22 August 2009, 04:16 PM
#31
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Would you go in to restaurant and ask them to cook the ingredients that you have brought in?
You will find that they will probably tell you to get lost.
You really need to compare it with like for like.
The question for everyone out there is "Would RCM offer you the service of pure machine work or would they prefer to do the whole build"
This is not having a dig at RCM or there capabilities,I'm just using them as a example.
22 August 2009, 04:37 PM
#32
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I was not going to bother mentioning this but it's been eating away at me and today the balance has been tipped.
About a month ago I spoke to Chy @ Pennine Subaru with regard to having a closed deck 2.0L I have converted to a closed Deck 2.5L
On the phone he was very helpful but was trying to convince me to have a full engine build done. This wasnt just building the block but completely overhauling the heads too. Anyway the conversation ended with me agreeing to go and see him and discuss things with him. I said I'd drop in at some point as I have a client over that way. Today I did just that (100mile round trip).
Long story short the fella couldnt have been more un willing to help if he tried. I got there and his first words were "you've caught me at a really bad time, I've only been back from holiday five hours" He also said he had a break down to go to but was pissing about grinding some material off a new intercooler pipe. (hardly urgent breakdown behaviour)
He asked me to bare with him which I duly did. Anyway after waiting 10 minutes or so he came out and wanted to know what I wanted.
Basically I told him that I wanted a closed deck block bored and sleeved to 2.5L, converted to rear thrust and machined for 14mm Head studs.
I then got the sales patter about it would be better if he built the whole engine. I told him all I wanted was the engineering work done.
I mentioned that I would get the bores honed locally when I had bought the pistons. Chy then began backing away from the job making excuses about not letting third parties hone the bores etc. So I said OK I'll provide pistons too so you could hone the bores yourself to match the pistons.
It was at this point I got the sales patter again about how it would be better if he built the engine and he wouldnt like anyone to build it because it was their reputation on the line.
Basically he was saying that anyone else apart from him wasnt capable of building a subaru engine.
It proper pissed me off. There I was wanting about £1500 worth of work doing and he wouldnt do it because i wouldnt spend another £2-3K for him to do the whole job. I could have talked him into it but my attitude to that is why on earth should I have to talk someone into doing some work for me? I realise the bloke just couldnt be arsed so I looked him in the eye said "no problem" and got in my car and drove off.
That's one gripe out of the way. The other I wont name but they quoted for about £5k's worth of bits for me. I've rang a couple of times (no answer) and sent a couple of emails to make sure they've got the parts in for my visit as its a 240mile round trip for me to go and get them. No reply to the emails either.
I'm not wanting the earth from these companies but I would like them to get the fecking basics right. i.e be willing to do the work they are capable of even if I don't want a full engine build. I would also like them to have the courtesy to return phone calls and reply to fecking e-mails. It's not difficult to do.
In the past I've always recommended these to other people but that aint happening anymore.
From now on I'm sticking with the one company that's always, replied to emails, returned phone calls, shared their knowledge and given advice sometimes for nothing in return and often over the phone when they know they aren't really going to benefit from it. They've also always delivered the right parts and on time. RCM really do take some beating.
There's a reason RCM have the fantastic reputation they have and that's because they get the basics right and treat every customer like you're their only one. Whilst I have bought a fair few parts from them over the years I've never spent massive amounts of money there but they have always given me exemplary service no matter how small or how trivial my enquiry.
As for Chy @ Pennine and A.N Other I would have been spending a fair amount of money with both outfits but why on earth should I give them a penny of my hard earned.
If they can't be arsed then neither can I.
A very disgruntled Daz
About a month ago I spoke to Chy @ Pennine Subaru with regard to having a closed deck 2.0L I have converted to a closed Deck 2.5L
On the phone he was very helpful but was trying to convince me to have a full engine build done. This wasnt just building the block but completely overhauling the heads too. Anyway the conversation ended with me agreeing to go and see him and discuss things with him. I said I'd drop in at some point as I have a client over that way. Today I did just that (100mile round trip).
Long story short the fella couldnt have been more un willing to help if he tried. I got there and his first words were "you've caught me at a really bad time, I've only been back from holiday five hours" He also said he had a break down to go to but was pissing about grinding some material off a new intercooler pipe. (hardly urgent breakdown behaviour)
He asked me to bare with him which I duly did. Anyway after waiting 10 minutes or so he came out and wanted to know what I wanted.
Basically I told him that I wanted a closed deck block bored and sleeved to 2.5L, converted to rear thrust and machined for 14mm Head studs.
I then got the sales patter about it would be better if he built the whole engine. I told him all I wanted was the engineering work done.
I mentioned that I would get the bores honed locally when I had bought the pistons. Chy then began backing away from the job making excuses about not letting third parties hone the bores etc. So I said OK I'll provide pistons too so you could hone the bores yourself to match the pistons.
It was at this point I got the sales patter again about how it would be better if he built the engine and he wouldnt like anyone to build it because it was their reputation on the line.
Basically he was saying that anyone else apart from him wasnt capable of building a subaru engine.
It proper pissed me off. There I was wanting about £1500 worth of work doing and he wouldnt do it because i wouldnt spend another £2-3K for him to do the whole job. I could have talked him into it but my attitude to that is why on earth should I have to talk someone into doing some work for me? I realise the bloke just couldnt be arsed so I looked him in the eye said "no problem" and got in my car and drove off.
That's one gripe out of the way. The other I wont name but they quoted for about £5k's worth of bits for me. I've rang a couple of times (no answer) and sent a couple of emails to make sure they've got the parts in for my visit as its a 240mile round trip for me to go and get them. No reply to the emails either.
I'm not wanting the earth from these companies but I would like them to get the fecking basics right. i.e be willing to do the work they are capable of even if I don't want a full engine build. I would also like them to have the courtesy to return phone calls and reply to fecking e-mails. It's not difficult to do.
In the past I've always recommended these to other people but that aint happening anymore.
From now on I'm sticking with the one company that's always, replied to emails, returned phone calls, shared their knowledge and given advice sometimes for nothing in return and often over the phone when they know they aren't really going to benefit from it. They've also always delivered the right parts and on time. RCM really do take some beating.
There's a reason RCM have the fantastic reputation they have and that's because they get the basics right and treat every customer like you're their only one. Whilst I have bought a fair few parts from them over the years I've never spent massive amounts of money there but they have always given me exemplary service no matter how small or how trivial my enquiry.
As for Chy @ Pennine and A.N Other I would have been spending a fair amount of money with both outfits but why on earth should I give them a penny of my hard earned.
If they can't be arsed then neither can I.
A very disgruntled Daz
You cant excuse bad manners, but i bet they deal with loads of wannabes all day.
The last thing you want is various bitsa's when your machining. I bet they only know what they do. ie how to machine for the parts they use/supply, mainly from their own experience rather than anything else.
I aggree about RCM tho, A1
22 August 2009, 07:31 PM
#33
Firstly, If I went to RCM and asked them to do only engineering work for me they would do. To be honest I should have gone straight to them but because Chy is well known for the 2.5's that he's doing I thought I'd give him a whirl.
I'm also hardly a wanabee at this stuff and this isn't an engine that's going to be thrown together he knew that.
Chy knew the levels I was working at and the components I am going to be using as this was discussed over the phone and during yesterdays conversation.
It just pissed me off because it was a complete waste of my time and he blatantly couldn't be arsed.
I'm also hardly a wanabee at this stuff and this isn't an engine that's going to be thrown together he knew that.
Chy knew the levels I was working at and the components I am going to be using as this was discussed over the phone and during yesterdays conversation.
It just pissed me off because it was a complete waste of my time and he blatantly couldn't be arsed.
22 August 2009, 08:58 PM
#35
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Daz,
Obviously he does not know you.... if he did, he would of realised that the engine would never turn over in 2+yrs, so the engine would be safe anyhow.
If you think you are stressed now..... you wait until you actually start running and using the car!
Chin up.... it will soon be Christmas.
Obviously he does not know you.... if he did, he would of realised that the engine would never turn over in 2+yrs, so the engine would be safe anyhow.
If you think you are stressed now..... you wait until you actually start running and using the car!
Chin up.... it will soon be Christmas.
22 August 2009, 09:11 PM
#36
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That is a very unfair comparison...
Would you go in to restaurant and ask them to cook the ingredients that you have brought in?
You will find that they will probably tell you to get lost.
You really need to compare it with like for like.
The question for everyone out there is "Would RCM offer you the service of pure machine work or would they prefer to do the whole build"
This is not having a dig at RCM or there capabilities,I'm just using them as a example.
Would you go in to restaurant and ask them to cook the ingredients that you have brought in?
You will find that they will probably tell you to get lost.
You really need to compare it with like for like.
The question for everyone out there is "Would RCM offer you the service of pure machine work or would they prefer to do the whole build"
This is not having a dig at RCM or there capabilities,I'm just using them as a example.
Apples....Pears....Apples....Pears....
pmsl!
22 August 2009, 09:17 PM
#37
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Firstly, If I went to RCM and asked them to do only engineering work for me they would do. To be honest I should have gone straight to them but because Chy is well known for the 2.5's that he's doing I thought I'd give him a whirl.
I'm also hardly a wanabee at this stuff and this isn't an engine that's going to be thrown together he knew that.
Chy knew the levels I was working at and the components I am going to be using as this was discussed over the phone and during yesterdays conversation.
It just pissed me off because it was a complete waste of my time and he blatantly couldn't be arsed.
I'm also hardly a wanabee at this stuff and this isn't an engine that's going to be thrown together he knew that.
Chy knew the levels I was working at and the components I am going to be using as this was discussed over the phone and during yesterdays conversation.
It just pissed me off because it was a complete waste of my time and he blatantly couldn't be arsed.
good luck with the car
22 August 2009, 09:33 PM
#38
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That is a very unfair comparison...
Would you go in to restaurant and ask them to cook the ingredients that you have brought in?
You will find that they will probably tell you to get lost.
You really need to compare it with like for like.
The question for everyone out there is "Would RCM offer you the service of pure machine work or would they prefer to do the whole build"
This is not having a dig at RCM or there capabilities,I'm just using them as a example.
Would you go in to restaurant and ask them to cook the ingredients that you have brought in?
You will find that they will probably tell you to get lost.
You really need to compare it with like for like.
The question for everyone out there is "Would RCM offer you the service of pure machine work or would they prefer to do the whole build"
This is not having a dig at RCM or there capabilities,I'm just using them as a example.
I agree with Daz on this they could have said on the phone that unless they do the full build their not interested, my opinion and it is only an opinion is they thought they could talk him into it.
Aaron
22 August 2009, 11:12 PM
#39
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My pal Ben builds 2.3 Ev* motors.... he uses a company in Hull who destroyed one of engines in the past, and washed their hands of any blame.
So would I trust Ben to build me an engine, yes !
Would I expect him to triple check the machining done, yes !
Would I recommend said company, NO !
If Chy doesn't want to do a "cheap" sub-£2K job then fine, he should just say no. I suppose the wealthy "blank cheque book tuner fans" will still be queueing up to get theirs.
I would also have tried for a 2.5 block from Chy, but I'd like Ben to build it for me... so no deal.
dunx
So would I trust Ben to build me an engine, yes !
Would I expect him to triple check the machining done, yes !
Would I recommend said company, NO !
If Chy doesn't want to do a "cheap" sub-£2K job then fine, he should just say no. I suppose the wealthy "blank cheque book tuner fans" will still be queueing up to get theirs.
I would also have tried for a 2.5 block from Chy, but I'd like Ben to build it for me... so no deal.
dunx
22 August 2009, 11:31 PM
#40
I've just looked back through my emails from Chy, he makes no mention of not wanting to do it in any of them.
Jag, Chy isn't the only person capable of building a "powerful" Subaru Engine.
Whilst it would be the easiest option for me to say OK Chy no problem you do the lot. I actually want to build it myself. I enjoy building them so why should I not be able to go to a specialist to have the bit of work that I cannot do.
I'm not some numpty cheque book tuner that has no idea how to build an engine!
To me this is the same as Chy knocking me back for a 10,000 mile service because it's not worth his while.
As for all this ruin his reputation bollocks. My project is very well documented on here and it would be widely known that I had built the engine. If it fails people's conclusions would have been that I'd not assembled it properly not that the engineering on the block was at fault. So in my eyes he had nothing to worry about and thus his reasons for not doing the work dont hold much water.
I think Azz has hit the nail on the head. He invited me over because he thought he could talk me into letting him do the lot. When I told him that wasn't going to happen that's when he proper changed his tone.
Anyway I've said my bit, expressed my discontent. It matters not now. I'm sure someone else will do the work and the build will reach the figures expected which will be just under the 600bhp mark.
Jag, Chy isn't the only person capable of building a "powerful" Subaru Engine.
Whilst it would be the easiest option for me to say OK Chy no problem you do the lot. I actually want to build it myself. I enjoy building them so why should I not be able to go to a specialist to have the bit of work that I cannot do.
I'm not some numpty cheque book tuner that has no idea how to build an engine!
To me this is the same as Chy knocking me back for a 10,000 mile service because it's not worth his while.
As for all this ruin his reputation bollocks. My project is very well documented on here and it would be widely known that I had built the engine. If it fails people's conclusions would have been that I'd not assembled it properly not that the engineering on the block was at fault. So in my eyes he had nothing to worry about and thus his reasons for not doing the work dont hold much water.
I think Azz has hit the nail on the head. He invited me over because he thought he could talk me into letting him do the lot. When I told him that wasn't going to happen that's when he proper changed his tone.
Anyway I've said my bit, expressed my discontent. It matters not now. I'm sure someone else will do the work and the build will reach the figures expected which will be just under the 600bhp mark.
Last edited by dazdavies; 22 August 2009 at 11:35 PM. Reason: spelling
23 August 2009, 12:30 AM
#41
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Got to agree with Daz where RCM are concerned,you will not find two more helpful guys than Matt and Olly Clark,I have used them for over 5 years now and all my friends do aswell,nothing is to much trouble for them,I have known them to fix peoples cars at time attack meetings,they are always very helpful and ready to go the extra mile,they will do part builds if thats what you want,and I know they build engines for other tuners,and its their great service that keeps customers from Kent,Cornwall,and right up to Scotland coming to see them.
RCMs engine builds are the stuff of dreams.....
Remember this is not OEM this is RCM.
RCMs engine builds are the stuff of dreams.....
Remember this is not OEM this is RCM.
Last edited by chunkb; 23 August 2009 at 05:03 PM.
23 August 2009, 12:55 AM
#42
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very nice pics mate. its like if you have you car built by someone then you get it mapped by someone else theres always that chance it could go wrong so who do you blame.
Daz in a perfect world what your saying makes sense but if the build goes **** up then by the looks of chy doesnt want to hear about it. which is fair enough but hey if rcm want to do it then by looking at the pics above and the results on time attack they seem to know what there doing. good luck with you build
who is the other tuner and as this is a public forum it will only help as people will stop using them and then maybe the tuner can start improving there service?
mus
Daz in a perfect world what your saying makes sense but if the build goes **** up then by the looks of chy doesnt want to hear about it. which is fair enough but hey if rcm want to do it then by looking at the pics above and the results on time attack they seem to know what there doing. good luck with you build
who is the other tuner and as this is a public forum it will only help as people will stop using them and then maybe the tuner can start improving there service?
mus
23 August 2009, 08:23 AM
#43
Just a further vote for Matt and Ollie - and for the benefit of the guy wondering whether he could call them about his used RCM 400 - I bought a secondhand engine from someone who had a full build at RCM a couple of years before, had it fitted to my car by someone else (as RCM were booked solid), and then took it back to Matt and Ollie who, for no cost, checked it over, made a couple of suggestions for tidying, got under the car and sorted a couple of minor issues. In the weeks following I had a few additional questions which Ollie answered by email/phone every time and, in one case, while they were driving the RCM transporter to a Time Attack round. Any parts ordered arrive beautifully packaged and when promised. They are not cheap, perhaps like Stella "reassuringly expensive", but if I had the money I would use them every time. There are a couple of other operators out there, in different spheres, like Bob Rawle for instance, who I feel equally certain about and I personally think that Paul/Zen are hard to beat, but Matt and Ollie are the daddies.
Just to back up Daz's point, RCM would definitely be happy to do "just the engineering work and not worry about their rep" but then perhaps that's because you never hear of any horror stories from dissatisfied customers in the way that we have recently experienced on here re the likes of Pennine and others.
Just to back up Daz's point, RCM would definitely be happy to do "just the engineering work and not worry about their rep" but then perhaps that's because you never hear of any horror stories from dissatisfied customers in the way that we have recently experienced on here re the likes of Pennine and others.
23 August 2009, 08:47 AM
#44
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wow daz you have started a good debate with htis one. A long time ago i was in to the ford RS thing (mexico and rs2000) the man of the moment was a chap called Ian Furguson his place was in Leeds, getting to the point I recomended a fried to have a full build done, which he did I visited one weekend just for a look round and he always had the time to spend chatting even if it was to say "will have to be quick today got loads on yadda yadda yadda. One of the other lads has said when people are good they seem to be a little short od time I would agree with that as well, any way let me pick your brains a little as it seems you are tuned in to the scooby thing. I got a 51 bug eye and want some quick improvements, standard at the moment so what first ??
23 August 2009, 11:12 AM
#45
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Daz -
I think you seem to have missed my point. I have never claimed that Chy is the only one who can build a high powered engine. I have also not doubted RCM whatsoever in both their engine and tuning abilities.
Infact, having used RCM personally, I rate them very highly and I am using some of their parts on my build including 14mm head studs, RCM catch can, Adjustable Titanium Vernier Pulleys etc.
Question is, I wonder whether Olly or Matt would encourage anyone to publicly slate off other tuners/engine builder on here, particularly those tuners who actually buy certain parts off RCM and where no physical build has even been carried out?!
As MUS says above and to be consistent in your approach, please can you mention the other party since you have already mention Pennine Subaru.
I believe you have also mis-interpreted Chy's words concerning "reputation", which ofcourse now is being taken the wrong way! This is nothing about pride or greed but wanting to ensure that as an engine builder, Chy oversees the whole work through from sleeving to building of the short and long engine - this way he is able to provide a full guarantee on his work.
With all due respect, I would also like to find out whether RCM or Zen carry out sleeving of liners inhouse when going for a 2.5??
Ayhow, I do hope you get it all sorted in the end.
I think you seem to have missed my point. I have never claimed that Chy is the only one who can build a high powered engine. I have also not doubted RCM whatsoever in both their engine and tuning abilities.
Infact, having used RCM personally, I rate them very highly and I am using some of their parts on my build including 14mm head studs, RCM catch can, Adjustable Titanium Vernier Pulleys etc.
Question is, I wonder whether Olly or Matt would encourage anyone to publicly slate off other tuners/engine builder on here, particularly those tuners who actually buy certain parts off RCM and where no physical build has even been carried out?!
As MUS says above and to be consistent in your approach, please can you mention the other party since you have already mention Pennine Subaru.
I believe you have also mis-interpreted Chy's words concerning "reputation", which ofcourse now is being taken the wrong way! This is nothing about pride or greed but wanting to ensure that as an engine builder, Chy oversees the whole work through from sleeving to building of the short and long engine - this way he is able to provide a full guarantee on his work.
With all due respect, I would also like to find out whether RCM or Zen carry out sleeving of liners inhouse when going for a 2.5??
Ayhow, I do hope you get it all sorted in the end.
23 August 2009, 11:36 AM
#46
How on earth does this go from me moaning about the sh*t treatment I've recieved to RCM condonding that I slate said tuner that gave me the sh*t treatment
STOP TWISTING THINGS.
What has my complaint got anything to do with RCM other than me using them as a reference because they have always been incredibly helpful and have got things right time and time again. Others have asked if RCM would go the extra mile. I think the responses here back that up, very well infact.
I'm not going to name the other company for a few reasons:
1, not replying to an email is not as bad as implying that I cant build an engine for **** so we won't put our name to it.
2, I have no interest in any sort of future customer/tuner relationship with Pennine where as I do with the other tuner.
3, This was my first and last encounter with Pennine, I have used the other tuner a good few times for parts etc and they've been ok in the past. So they have some slack based on past performance.
Just for reference had the tuner not named here done what Pennine have done and implied I couldnt build an engine for sh*t then they'd have been named too. All they are guilty of is not replying to my enquiries, there could be numerous reasons for that. There's no excuse for the face to face refusal I experienced at Pennine.
Finally for the vultures here waiting to pounce just so there's no misunderstanding I will NOT be naming the other tuner.
STOP TWISTING THINGS.
What has my complaint got anything to do with RCM other than me using them as a reference because they have always been incredibly helpful and have got things right time and time again. Others have asked if RCM would go the extra mile. I think the responses here back that up, very well infact.
I'm not going to name the other company for a few reasons:
1, not replying to an email is not as bad as implying that I cant build an engine for **** so we won't put our name to it.
2, I have no interest in any sort of future customer/tuner relationship with Pennine where as I do with the other tuner.
3, This was my first and last encounter with Pennine, I have used the other tuner a good few times for parts etc and they've been ok in the past. So they have some slack based on past performance.
Just for reference had the tuner not named here done what Pennine have done and implied I couldnt build an engine for sh*t then they'd have been named too. All they are guilty of is not replying to my enquiries, there could be numerous reasons for that. There's no excuse for the face to face refusal I experienced at Pennine.
Finally for the vultures here waiting to pounce just so there's no misunderstanding I will NOT be naming the other tuner.
23 August 2009, 12:07 PM
#47
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i do agree with you daz,
alot of people have had probs with chy over the past year,probebly me being the main one,
i am not going to bore you with the problems that i had with my full build 2.5, all i can say on the plus side for chy, my engine failed at the off 3 times and he took it back off me and tried to repair it for me, so he is willing, just maybe a bit of an attitude problem with customers,
however, i got there in the end with mine (9 months late )
ps, if i was to do this all over again i would of bought a engine stand and done the lot myself, i would of saved a load of cash and i am quite sure i would of got it right before chy did for me, ie 4th time
you live and lern
alot of people have had probs with chy over the past year,probebly me being the main one,
i am not going to bore you with the problems that i had with my full build 2.5, all i can say on the plus side for chy, my engine failed at the off 3 times and he took it back off me and tried to repair it for me, so he is willing, just maybe a bit of an attitude problem with customers,
however, i got there in the end with mine (9 months late )
ps, if i was to do this all over again i would of bought a engine stand and done the lot myself, i would of saved a load of cash and i am quite sure i would of got it right before chy did for me, ie 4th time
you live and lern
23 August 2009, 03:34 PM
#48
i do agree with you daz,
alot of people have had probs with chy over the past year,probebly me being the main one,
i am not going to bore you with the problems that i had with my full build 2.5, all i can say on the plus side for chy, my engine failed at the off 3 times and he took it back off me and tried to repair it for me, so he is willing, just maybe a bit of an attitude problem with customers,
however, i got there in the end with mine (9 months late )
ps, if i was to do this all over again i would of bought a engine stand and done the lot myself, i would of saved a load of cash and i am quite sure i would of got it right before chy did for me, ie 4th time
you live and lern
alot of people have had probs with chy over the past year,probebly me being the main one,
i am not going to bore you with the problems that i had with my full build 2.5, all i can say on the plus side for chy, my engine failed at the off 3 times and he took it back off me and tried to repair it for me, so he is willing, just maybe a bit of an attitude problem with customers,
however, i got there in the end with mine (9 months late )
ps, if i was to do this all over again i would of bought a engine stand and done the lot myself, i would of saved a load of cash and i am quite sure i would of got it right before chy did for me, ie 4th time
you live and lern
Andy, that's the very reason I'm doing things myself. The one thing I cant do is the engineering work on the block. That's why I went to Chy because he does have a good reputation for them. A few months ago he was dead keen on doing it. I wish he'd have just said at the outset he didnt want to do it. That wouldn't of pissed me off half as much as driving over to be practically told I cant build an engine. His dreadful attitude will probably do his reputation more harm than any failures he has.
Right as far as the other tuner. I'm getting loads of pm's asking who it was and just about every company has been suggested. Loads of people jumping to conculsions.
Some people are making a connection between Pennine and Lateral because of the fact i've recommended Lateral on numerous ocasions and I mentioned earlier that i'd recommended the company concerned. Just to Clarify it's not Lateral Performance as Mark has always been very helpful and has always come up trumps if I've needed anything.
Please stop this silly speculation. I shall not be naming anyone and I shall not be saying it's not anyone now either as people will think if we can discount anyone we will eventually narrow the list down. That isn't going to happen. I've had my gripe as far as I'm concerned the matter is closed.
23 August 2009, 06:19 PM
#49
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Andy, that's the very reason I'm doing things myself. The one thing I cant do is the engineering work on the block. That's why I went to Chy because he does have a good reputation for them. A few months ago he was dead keen on doing it. I wish he'd have just said at the outset he didnt want to do it. That wouldn't of pissed me off half as much as driving over to be practically told I cant build an engine. His dreadful attitude will probably do his reputation more harm than any failures he has.
Right as far as the other tuner. I'm getting loads of pm's asking who it was and just about every company has been suggested. Loads of people jumping to conculsions.
Some people are making a connection between Pennine and Lateral because of the fact i've recommended Lateral on numerous ocasions and I mentioned earlier that i'd recommended the company concerned. Just to Clarify it's not Lateral Performance as Mark has always been very helpful and has always come up trumps if I've needed anything.
Please stop this silly speculation. I shall not be naming anyone and I shall not be saying it's not anyone now either as people will think if we can discount anyone we will eventually narrow the list down. That isn't going to happen. I've had my gripe as far as I'm concerned the matter is closed.
Right as far as the other tuner. I'm getting loads of pm's asking who it was and just about every company has been suggested. Loads of people jumping to conculsions.
Some people are making a connection between Pennine and Lateral because of the fact i've recommended Lateral on numerous ocasions and I mentioned earlier that i'd recommended the company concerned. Just to Clarify it's not Lateral Performance as Mark has always been very helpful and has always come up trumps if I've needed anything.
Please stop this silly speculation. I shall not be naming anyone and I shall not be saying it's not anyone now either as people will think if we can discount anyone we will eventually narrow the list down. That isn't going to happen. I've had my gripe as far as I'm concerned the matter is closed.
He has also said that he won't be dissclosing the "other" tuner so as far as I see it end of no point asking, stick to your principles Daz!!!
24 August 2009, 11:26 PM
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Whilst the customer if of course always right I am also sure that in most establishments the management reserve the right to refuse admission.
The only 'crime' I see here is that a tuner tried to persuade you to buy another service you did not require. Just because the tuner can sleeve a block does not mean to say he has to do it for you.
Also, not knowing any of the people mentioned, I read this is interpreted as an insult into the customers engine building ability. My illusion is that is all about the customer not the vendor. The vendor is trying to sell you what he sells and nothing more or nothing less.
Whether he was right to do it in such a way is clearly open to question.
Everyone wants what they want - however there is no law that says that someone has to take your money no matter how much you want to give it to them.
The only 'crime' I see here is that a tuner tried to persuade you to buy another service you did not require. Just because the tuner can sleeve a block does not mean to say he has to do it for you.
Also, not knowing any of the people mentioned, I read this is interpreted as an insult into the customers engine building ability. My illusion is that is all about the customer not the vendor. The vendor is trying to sell you what he sells and nothing more or nothing less.
Whether he was right to do it in such a way is clearly open to question.
Everyone wants what they want - however there is no law that says that someone has to take your money no matter how much you want to give it to them.
25 August 2009, 02:49 PM
#52
Apparently its because of reasons that have **** all to do with me that Chy is reluctant to do anything but full builds because of bad publicity he's getting when things go wrong.
Personally I couldn't give a f*ck about all that. All I wanted was some engineering work which Chy is alledgedly very good at and can provide.
His excuse for not doing the work for me was because IF things went wrong it might jeopardise his reputation. Not only is that paranoid but in all fairness my build as been very well documented and if anything does go wrong with my build it will more than likely go wrong because of something I've done wrong and no one else.
Personally I cannot for the life of me see why he wouldnt just take the job on. The only reason I'd have cause to go back to Chy is if there was a fundemental flaw with the work he'd done. Even if that was the case I'd go back to him and wouldnt mention it on here. (perhaps that's what he's worried about because non of this makes sense)
It seems the fella is just paranoid about destroying his reputation. Self fullfilling prophecy if you ask me because the bloke is doing a pretty good job of ruining it himself.
It's not like I was going to pass the build off as one of Chy's and if it went wrong I would be blaming him for all of it.
All I wanted doing was a simple engineering job that ordinarily any company would undertake.
I've decided to go another route for the time being and have my EJ257 strengthened. Funnily enough, another very well known tuner has agreed to do me the engineering work on my block and are happy to let me do the build yet they havent said no for fear of their reputation being damaged based on a very slim chance of things going wrong.
This is the difference between a proper tuning company and some outfit that's up a back street in the **** end of nowhere.
Personally I couldn't give a f*ck about all that. All I wanted was some engineering work which Chy is alledgedly very good at and can provide.
His excuse for not doing the work for me was because IF things went wrong it might jeopardise his reputation. Not only is that paranoid but in all fairness my build as been very well documented and if anything does go wrong with my build it will more than likely go wrong because of something I've done wrong and no one else.
Personally I cannot for the life of me see why he wouldnt just take the job on. The only reason I'd have cause to go back to Chy is if there was a fundemental flaw with the work he'd done. Even if that was the case I'd go back to him and wouldnt mention it on here. (perhaps that's what he's worried about because non of this makes sense)
It seems the fella is just paranoid about destroying his reputation. Self fullfilling prophecy if you ask me because the bloke is doing a pretty good job of ruining it himself.
It's not like I was going to pass the build off as one of Chy's and if it went wrong I would be blaming him for all of it.
All I wanted doing was a simple engineering job that ordinarily any company would undertake.
I've decided to go another route for the time being and have my EJ257 strengthened. Funnily enough, another very well known tuner has agreed to do me the engineering work on my block and are happy to let me do the build yet they havent said no for fear of their reputation being damaged based on a very slim chance of things going wrong.
This is the difference between a proper tuning company and some outfit that's up a back street in the **** end of nowhere.
Last edited by dazdavies; 25 August 2009 at 02:51 PM.
25 August 2009, 05:55 PM
#54
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I do agree that specialists should reply to inquiries promptly. If their business has expanded to the point where they cannot do that anymore, then they need to hire help. Simple as.
I do sympathise with Chy slightly though, mainly because I've seen how people respond to engine failures on here. They'll blame anyone but themselves or the corner cutting that they've undertaken for the failure, and it's the specialist that has contributed to the job, but not taken responsibility for the whole thing that, undeservedly, gets it in the neck because a job they contributed to gets f*cked up by someone else. Not everyone is a forthright as Daz and the last thing you want as a "smaller" business is getting a right old slagging off for something that isn't your fault.
Unfortunately, this means that people like Daz, who know what they're doing, are probably in for some frustration.
RCM are a bit of a different kettle of fish as they have a big parts business so are known for selling quality products with the implicit disclaimer: "We'll sell you the good stuff, but what you do with it is up to you" and they also have a cast iron reputation.
It's difficult for all involved and each specialist has to reach their own judgment based on their existing reputation, and the nature and value of the job.
From what I've heard Chy is a very decent bloke and an A1 engine builder and probably just wants sole responsibility for the build for his own piece of mind rather than being motivated by extra £££. I'm not sure I agree with his position, and I think there are things that can be done legally to prevent any kind of illegitimate criticism being banded around e.g. a receipt explicitly saying that the specialist provided only the parts or a specific part of the build and therefore accepts no overall liability for the longevity of the finished engine.
I can totally understand how this would be frustrating to Daz though.
Ns04
I do sympathise with Chy slightly though, mainly because I've seen how people respond to engine failures on here. They'll blame anyone but themselves or the corner cutting that they've undertaken for the failure, and it's the specialist that has contributed to the job, but not taken responsibility for the whole thing that, undeservedly, gets it in the neck because a job they contributed to gets f*cked up by someone else. Not everyone is a forthright as Daz and the last thing you want as a "smaller" business is getting a right old slagging off for something that isn't your fault.
Unfortunately, this means that people like Daz, who know what they're doing, are probably in for some frustration.
RCM are a bit of a different kettle of fish as they have a big parts business so are known for selling quality products with the implicit disclaimer: "We'll sell you the good stuff, but what you do with it is up to you" and they also have a cast iron reputation.
It's difficult for all involved and each specialist has to reach their own judgment based on their existing reputation, and the nature and value of the job.
From what I've heard Chy is a very decent bloke and an A1 engine builder and probably just wants sole responsibility for the build for his own piece of mind rather than being motivated by extra £££. I'm not sure I agree with his position, and I think there are things that can be done legally to prevent any kind of illegitimate criticism being banded around e.g. a receipt explicitly saying that the specialist provided only the parts or a specific part of the build and therefore accepts no overall liability for the longevity of the finished engine.
I can totally understand how this would be frustrating to Daz though.
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 25 August 2009 at 06:02 PM.
25 August 2009, 06:02 PM
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I'm commenting here as a complete outside to this entire situation. However, I'd also like to say that Daz has put his point across here very well indeed. Not often people are calm and composed and allow us the chance to see the other side to certain companies. I, for one, certainly appreciate being privvy to threads like these, because when things go wrong, its so expensive, that threads like these need to considered when choosing who you are going to trust with your pride and joy. If no one posted threads such as these, we would be non the wiser.
I think Daz has also been very fair and to the point in describing exactly what happened, and I can see why this would have caused him to be frustrated. If I drove a fair whack after numerous discussions with a specific company to go and discuss in more details what I had outlined in a previous telephone conversation, to find I was hearing sales patter, and that what I had outlined was now no longer do able, and with the reason given, I can see why he feels the way he does. I'd be very annoyed and feel like not only was my time and effort wasted, but I think it'd be thinking it was simply because it wasnt worth his effort. Why not say that over the phone initially or was Chy just too confident in being able to talk Daz round into a full build?
He hasnt said the guy cant build engines, he's just explained his experiences and what he found, and I think if there were more people on here with that attitude, and told people what their true experiences were, and not worried about upsetting the "scooby massive" then I think its fair to say that not only could people make more informed choices, but there would be alot less threads in the vein of; My engine has blown after a rebuild, Ive done 300 miles etc.
No offense meant to any involved, just my opinion as an outsider.
I think Daz has also been very fair and to the point in describing exactly what happened, and I can see why this would have caused him to be frustrated. If I drove a fair whack after numerous discussions with a specific company to go and discuss in more details what I had outlined in a previous telephone conversation, to find I was hearing sales patter, and that what I had outlined was now no longer do able, and with the reason given, I can see why he feels the way he does. I'd be very annoyed and feel like not only was my time and effort wasted, but I think it'd be thinking it was simply because it wasnt worth his effort. Why not say that over the phone initially or was Chy just too confident in being able to talk Daz round into a full build?
He hasnt said the guy cant build engines, he's just explained his experiences and what he found, and I think if there were more people on here with that attitude, and told people what their true experiences were, and not worried about upsetting the "scooby massive" then I think its fair to say that not only could people make more informed choices, but there would be alot less threads in the vein of; My engine has blown after a rebuild, Ive done 300 miles etc.
No offense meant to any involved, just my opinion as an outsider.
25 August 2009, 10:06 PM
#56
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Where tuners are based has no relevance as to their ability - I think you are being a little bitter here. Lets face it, tuners premises are not a palace, gym nor a hotel.
You also forget to mention that Pennine Subaru have machinery which a lot of tuners do not have inhouse - funny how you have not given any credit to Chy/Pennine Subaru on that ground but then again as you say, they are based up a back street so what would they know?! pmsl!
You should by now know that all those who are having a build carried out by Pennine subaru (quite a few including I) have the whole engine built there. That's the way he works -its nothing personal against you Daz!
25 August 2009, 10:36 PM
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i think you have a very good point jag and i agree
i do think that chy should make it clear thow that he does not want to do half a job before customers spend money on fuel and time coming to pennine
i have found out eventually that chy has got the abillity to build a good engine.
mine is a peach now
andy h
i do think that chy should make it clear thow that he does not want to do half a job before customers spend money on fuel and time coming to pennine
i have found out eventually that chy has got the abillity to build a good engine.
mine is a peach now
andy h
26 August 2009, 12:56 PM
#59
Some good points Jag, but if we're being pedantic.
Chy's premesis with unpainted oil stained floors and racks and racks of old rusting second hand parts is nothing like the white tiled floor RCM workshop now is it? The operating theatre cleanliness of the RCM engine build room there speaks volumes too. Zen's place is also top notch.
I've not once questioned Chy's abilities that's why i went there in the first place.
You're right I am bitter as he just completely and utterly wasted my time. Had he said what he did in person on the phone and saved the time and fuel etc to go over there then I probably wouldn't have written this thread.
Just one question for those that know Pennine and Chy better than I. Does he only do full engine builds? He doesn't do repairs, servicing etc?
If he does offer other services what's the difference in him working on cars he hasn't built thus putting his name to them so to speak and him supplying me with the service of working on my block.
That's why I'm so pissed off with this because it doesn't make any sense and is just complete double standards.
I would just like to add that some good has come out of this thread. I have taken delivery of a box full of parts this morning from the other tuner. They finally pulled their finger out
Chy's premesis with unpainted oil stained floors and racks and racks of old rusting second hand parts is nothing like the white tiled floor RCM workshop now is it? The operating theatre cleanliness of the RCM engine build room there speaks volumes too. Zen's place is also top notch.
I've not once questioned Chy's abilities that's why i went there in the first place.
You're right I am bitter as he just completely and utterly wasted my time. Had he said what he did in person on the phone and saved the time and fuel etc to go over there then I probably wouldn't have written this thread.
Just one question for those that know Pennine and Chy better than I. Does he only do full engine builds? He doesn't do repairs, servicing etc?
If he does offer other services what's the difference in him working on cars he hasn't built thus putting his name to them so to speak and him supplying me with the service of working on my block.
That's why I'm so pissed off with this because it doesn't make any sense and is just complete double standards.
I would just like to add that some good has come out of this thread. I have taken delivery of a box full of parts this morning from the other tuner. They finally pulled their finger out
Last edited by dazdavies; 26 August 2009 at 12:59 PM.
26 August 2009, 01:00 PM
#60
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daz not saying this to start a big row, but have you thought your reputation may procede you? you have had some, how can i put it genericly, run ins with some tuning companies and they do talk to each other.