0W-30 Oil!
03 February 2002, 09:16 PM
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Welcome to "Scoobynet". Well I am no expert but this sounds incorrect... Check your owners manual .This should give you the correct information. I dont know if you have posted your question in the "Drivetrain" section. There are some great members who will help you . I would suggest that you "limit" your driving until you are happy with the answer.
Can you organize a "Chocolate (Lindt!!) group buy!!!
Luke
I have noticed a post further down the page "Best oil or your Scooby" from FOZSTiV5.
[Edited by Luke - 3/2/2002 9:23:18 PM]
Welcome to "Scoobynet". Well I am no expert but this sounds incorrect... Check your owners manual .This should give you the correct information. I dont know if you have posted your question in the "Drivetrain" section. There are some great members who will help you . I would suggest that you "limit" your driving until you are happy with the answer.
Can you organize a "Chocolate (Lindt!!) group buy!!!
Luke
I have noticed a post further down the page "Best oil or your Scooby" from FOZSTiV5.
[Edited by Luke - 3/2/2002 9:23:18 PM]
03 February 2002, 10:08 PM
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Plums, welcome. Have a look in Drivetrain below. There have been some massive debates on oil, but the search is down at the moment so you'll have to search yourself (unless someone can post a hyperlink on here?).
To cut a very long story short, the conclusions were:
1) Use semi-synth until the engine is properly run-in (say 7,500 miles). Shell Helix?
2) Then use the best synthetic you can get with the right viscosity. Mobil MotorSport 15-50, Castrol RS 10-60, and some others by Silkoline and Redline (???). Sorry, can't recall exactly. Mobil and Castrol are readily available here, with Silkolene from Scoobysport and Redline from Demon Tweaks, if memory serves.
3) Never boot it from cold. Wait for the oil to get up to 70-80 degs, which usually takes about three times as long as it takes for the water to get up to temp, if you haven't got a gauge.
4) Change the oil every 4,000 miles.
5) Use an offical Subaru oil filter (it's a good filter, and keeps your warranty safe), and fill it to the brim before fitting.
6) After a thrash, allow the engine to idle for 1-3 minutes to cool the turbo.
Yes, this a great web-site. Try not to spend all day on here - it's bad for your business
Richard.
[Edited by Hoppy - 3/2/2002 10:10:54 PM]
To cut a very long story short, the conclusions were:
1) Use semi-synth until the engine is properly run-in (say 7,500 miles). Shell Helix?
2) Then use the best synthetic you can get with the right viscosity. Mobil MotorSport 15-50, Castrol RS 10-60, and some others by Silkoline and Redline (???). Sorry, can't recall exactly. Mobil and Castrol are readily available here, with Silkolene from Scoobysport and Redline from Demon Tweaks, if memory serves.
3) Never boot it from cold. Wait for the oil to get up to 70-80 degs, which usually takes about three times as long as it takes for the water to get up to temp, if you haven't got a gauge.
4) Change the oil every 4,000 miles.
5) Use an offical Subaru oil filter (it's a good filter, and keeps your warranty safe), and fill it to the brim before fitting.
6) After a thrash, allow the engine to idle for 1-3 minutes to cool the turbo.
Yes, this a great web-site. Try not to spend all day on here - it's bad for your business
Richard.
[Edited by Hoppy - 3/2/2002 10:10:54 PM]
02 March 2002, 08:53 PM
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I 've been following all the recent comment's about oils....
Mobil 1 being too thin (0W-40) and all that
Well my WRX MY01 had just covered 6000 kilometers when I bought it from a Subaru garage, before taking the car the garage manager informed me that they had just serviced the car,
He also told me that the oil won't need changing for......
25000 kilometers
The reason, they had chosen to use Castrol SLX 0W-30!!!!!!
Holy crapola batman that's a tad thin!
On cold mornings I start the car idle for around 1 min select reverse and slowly release the clutch......
What I hear frightens me.....
a loose knocking from the engine sounding like piston slapish!
Once warm no problem also like piston slap!
The car has been back to the garage and checked......
The result "they all do that sir, it's nothing to worry about"
I mentioned the oil issue possibly too thin?
"Not for this car sir...... tighter engine tolerences."
Is this garbage or what?
Should I go to another garage?
03 March 2002, 12:01 AM
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Wise words Hoppy....
Let's keep these sweet engines SWEET!
If I put Castrol RS 10W-60 or Mobil 15W-50 I guess it will take longer for the engine to warm up?
So is it better to maybe go for Mobil 5W-50 / RS 10W-60 during the winter months?
Is it at all possible that the new WRX engine may be capable of handling a thinner oil?
I find it pretty worrying that a Subaru garage would make such a choice as castrol SLX 0W-30!!!!
What I'm saying is if something does go bang then providing it happens under warranty they have to sort it out?
Plums.
Let's keep these sweet engines SWEET!
If I put Castrol RS 10W-60 or Mobil 15W-50 I guess it will take longer for the engine to warm up?
So is it better to maybe go for Mobil 5W-50 / RS 10W-60 during the winter months?
Is it at all possible that the new WRX engine may be capable of handling a thinner oil?
I find it pretty worrying that a Subaru garage would make such a choice as castrol SLX 0W-30!!!!
What I'm saying is if something does go bang then providing it happens under warranty they have to sort it out?
Plums.
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03 March 2002, 01:04 AM
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Plums, mate. I'm no oil expert, just re-telling what I've read.
There is an argument that says using thinner oil during winter months is good because it protects the engine better/quicker during warm-up. But what happens if you feel like a good thrash when the engine is hot? And the engine never feels hotter than it does on a cold, clear blue winter's day.
The difference is quite astonishing, between a dull, mild winter's day, and a cold frosty morning. When it's really cold and bright, ie high atmospheric pressure plus low temperatures, the car goes like the clappers (UK term relating to genital desease, but it translates as FAST). Makes me think a front-mount-inter-cooler is maybe a good idea
My conclusion is this: I use Castol RS 10-60 and change it every 4,000 miles. I never boot the car when cold, and always keep in negative boost until warm (this means slow accelleration, but you can cruise, if you're patient, at 90mph without any positive boost. Depending on your car, I guess).
My conclusion: Castrol RS 10-60 is good oil. Take it steady for the first few miles, but then you're okay to max it when there's a dull toon on Radio Too (UK joke for old farts like me ).
Richard. (only small Plums, I fear)
PS Edited to add that I don't think engine manufacturing tolerences have much to do with oil viscosity, which is vital to engine protection. It's all to do with engine temperatures and it doesn't matter how well an engine is screwed together, cold oil is bad, and so is cooked oil.
PPS Any experts care to comment? As I say, I know diddly about this, other than what you thickos have posted on ScoobyNet
[Edited by Hoppy - 3/3/2002 1:18:29 AM]
There is an argument that says using thinner oil during winter months is good because it protects the engine better/quicker during warm-up. But what happens if you feel like a good thrash when the engine is hot? And the engine never feels hotter than it does on a cold, clear blue winter's day.
The difference is quite astonishing, between a dull, mild winter's day, and a cold frosty morning. When it's really cold and bright, ie high atmospheric pressure plus low temperatures, the car goes like the clappers (UK term relating to genital desease, but it translates as FAST). Makes me think a front-mount-inter-cooler is maybe a good idea
My conclusion is this: I use Castol RS 10-60 and change it every 4,000 miles. I never boot the car when cold, and always keep in negative boost until warm (this means slow accelleration, but you can cruise, if you're patient, at 90mph without any positive boost. Depending on your car, I guess).
My conclusion: Castrol RS 10-60 is good oil. Take it steady for the first few miles, but then you're okay to max it when there's a dull toon on Radio Too (UK joke for old farts like me
).Richard. (only small Plums, I fear)
PS Edited to add that I don't think engine manufacturing tolerences have much to do with oil viscosity, which is vital to engine protection. It's all to do with engine temperatures and it doesn't matter how well an engine is screwed together, cold oil is bad, and so is cooked oil.
PPS Any experts care to comment? As I say, I know diddly about this, other than what you thickos have posted on ScoobyNet
[Edited by Hoppy - 3/3/2002 1:18:29 AM]
03 March 2002, 02:07 AM
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Drain it change to semi synthetic 10-15w Millers, Mobile 1, Motul, etc, Change to Fully synthetic after run in period. just read some of the threads for more informative advice.
regaards Bob.
regaards Bob.
03 March 2002, 02:23 AM
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Plums,
These 3 threads are a must to read. They talk about big end bearing failures and what oil you should use.
A lot of the best techies have posted on these threads. You will need a good hour or so.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002503.html
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002752.html
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002939.html
And this thread is for piston slap which includes the sound file of piston slap which was provided by Alan Leslie who is a member of this bbs.
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=74915
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Wrexy.
These 3 threads are a must to read. They talk about big end bearing failures and what oil you should use.
A lot of the best techies have posted on these threads. You will need a good hour or so.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002503.html
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002752.html
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/Forum9/HTML/002939.html
And this thread is for piston slap which includes the sound file of piston slap which was provided by Alan Leslie who is a member of this bbs.
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=74915
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Wrexy.
03 March 2002, 02:59 AM
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Most of that is right Richard. Just to put a little more "meat on the bones", regardless of engineering tolerances, the bores/bearings Etc, still need to smooth themselves out.
If you looked at a cross section of say a cylinder liner, a brand new one would have sharp peaks and deep(ish) troughs.
Through wear these reduce to softer, rounded radius peaks with a smaller distance between the peak and the trough.
Semi-synthetic oils are not as good at lubricating as fully synthetics[1] and allow this gentle wear/bedding in to happen, it needs some time to do that though so as close as possible around the 5k miles area, longer if possible. (The 1K running in period only deals with the first major part of this process).
Moving over to a fully synthetic too early will markedly reduce/stop the bedding in process, sometimes to the extent that the peaks can be sufficient so that the oil control ring on the piston allows a larger than normal (particuarly in the bores), amount of oil to sit in that trough.
This then gets burnt off in the cylinder during the combustion process, (we're talking minute amounts here so don't panic). Higher than average oil consumption can be an indication that the above process has not been followed religiously.
[1]
There are good and bad in everything, The best quality oils use High quality base stocks (PAO's),in there formulation, (Motul, Redline to name just a couple), though most don't.
I've included an extract that briefly explains the differences:
There are several synthetics on the market presently using many different base stocks. In 1999 the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the council of Better Business Bureau ruled in a debate of what is "synthetic". Mobil challenged Castrol's replacement of polyalphaolefins (PAO's) with hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulations. The Bureau ruled in Castrols favor and allowed them to call this hydroisomerized processed petroleum oil a synthetic. The NAD ruled that synthetic was just a marketing term since there was no true definition of what synthetic is.
Since then many oil companies have replaced their True Synthetics with this highly refined petroleum oil in place of the more expensive True Synthetic PAO's. These new highly refined petroleum oils are better in quality and performance than the cheaper refined oils, but only come close in some parameters to a True synthetic oil and are cheaper to manufacture.
There is a growing place in the market place for these new oils, as the bar keeps raising in regards to motor oil improvements required for new engines. They will never be able to measure up to the parameters of hot and cold temperatures that True Synthetics can safely handle though.
We will recommend these new generation petroleum synthetic oils in situations where the customer doesn't need the greater protection of a True Synthetic and is not interested in the extended oil change intervals or higher all around performance that a True synthetic can provide.
This of course is just a general overview of oils and there are many other elements to consider.
I will point out that we sell both Millers oils and Motul, (from a market choice of many, in my opinion these are the best available).
Mike.
[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 4/8/2002 11:39:48 PM]
Just to put a little more "meat on the bones", regardless of engineering tolerances, the bores/bearings Etc, still need to smooth themselves out.If you looked at a cross section of say a cylinder liner, a brand new one would have sharp peaks and deep(ish) troughs.
Through wear these reduce to softer, rounded radius peaks with a smaller distance between the peak and the trough.
Semi-synthetic oils are not as good at lubricating as fully synthetics[1] and allow this gentle wear/bedding in to happen, it needs some time to do that though so as close as possible around the 5k miles area, longer if possible. (The 1K running in period only deals with the first major part of this process).
Moving over to a fully synthetic too early will markedly reduce/stop the bedding in process, sometimes to the extent that the peaks can be sufficient so that the oil control ring on the piston allows a larger than normal (particuarly in the bores), amount of oil to sit in that trough.
This then gets burnt off in the cylinder during the combustion process, (we're talking minute amounts here so don't panic).
Higher than average oil consumption can be an indication that the above process has not been followed religiously.[1]
There are good and bad in everything, The best quality oils use High quality base stocks (PAO's),in there formulation, (Motul, Redline to name just a couple), though most don't.
I've included an extract that briefly explains the differences:
There are several synthetics on the market presently using many different base stocks. In 1999 the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the council of Better Business Bureau ruled in a debate of what is "synthetic". Mobil challenged Castrol's replacement of polyalphaolefins (PAO's) with hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulations. The Bureau ruled in Castrols favor and allowed them to call this hydroisomerized processed petroleum oil a synthetic. The NAD ruled that synthetic was just a marketing term since there was no true definition of what synthetic is.
Since then many oil companies have replaced their True Synthetics with this highly refined petroleum oil in place of the more expensive True Synthetic PAO's. These new highly refined petroleum oils are better in quality and performance than the cheaper refined oils, but only come close in some parameters to a True synthetic oil and are cheaper to manufacture.
There is a growing place in the market place for these new oils, as the bar keeps raising in regards to motor oil improvements required for new engines. They will never be able to measure up to the parameters of hot and cold temperatures that True Synthetics can safely handle though.
We will recommend these new generation petroleum synthetic oils in situations where the customer doesn't need the greater protection of a True Synthetic and is not interested in the extended oil change intervals or higher all around performance that a True synthetic can provide.
This of course is just a general overview of oils and there are many other elements to consider.
I will point out that we sell both Millers oils and Motul, (from a market choice of many, in my opinion these are the best available).
Mike.
[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 4/8/2002 11:39:48 PM]
03 March 2002, 04:03 PM
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Thanks for all the info guys!
I'm gonna buy castrol RS for now....
Then change to 15W-50 for the summer!
Over here I've never found the Mobil motorsport 15W-50 but looking through the motorcycle oils I have seen Mobil 15W-50 so there's still hope although it's only available in 1 litre bottles!
Otherwise I can nip into France and get the Motul 15W-50
P.S. I'm off to the Geneva motorshow this week......
lot's of tuning goodies on show and Castrol, Mobil,Yacco and Motul all have stands there..... It's question time!
I'm gonna buy castrol RS for now....
Then change to 15W-50 for the summer!
Over here I've never found the Mobil motorsport 15W-50 but looking through the motorcycle oils I have seen Mobil 15W-50 so there's still hope although it's only available in 1 litre bottles!
Otherwise I can nip into France and get the Motul 15W-50
P.S. I'm off to the Geneva motorshow this week......
lot's of tuning goodies on show and Castrol, Mobil,Yacco and Motul all have stands there..... It's question time!
03 March 2002, 04:54 PM
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Great Info guys,
Mike, Should I leave it for over 5K before I do my first trackday in the new STI?
(I asked this before but got no constructive answers, sorry for the hijack)
Andy
Mike, Should I leave it for over 5K before I do my first trackday in the new STI?
(I asked this before but got no constructive answers, sorry for the hijack)
Andy
03 March 2002, 06:03 PM
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Hi Andy.
Yes I would, get at least 5K out of the way, then switch to a high quality fully synthetic as described above.
In addition I've found a very interesting site which is worth exploring most of the sections of.
Oil information site
It's a fair bit of reading but it is intersting. (if you like that sort of thing).
Mike.
Yes I would, get at least 5K out of the way, then switch to a high quality fully synthetic as described above.
In addition I've found a very interesting site which is worth exploring most of the sections of.
Oil information site
It's a fair bit of reading but it is intersting. (if you like that sort of thing).
Mike.
03 March 2002, 06:04 PM
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as there is no search function on here I would recommend you going to I-club.com and searching for oil. You will find that the bigger the range i.e. 10-30W and 10-60W well the 10-60 is mmuch more likely to break down that the 10=30. Longer chains of polymers are used in 10-60 and are more at risk of breaking down.
03 March 2002, 08:38 PM
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You would think so wouldn't you!
Well I can't find any specifications in my handbook for type of oil.....
Although it does have a section on what viscosity covers what temperatures.
The most worrying is that my Subaru garage chose Castrol SLX 0W-30 for my car (MY01 WRX)!!!!
Naughty naughty very naughty!
03 March 2002, 09:29 PM
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Harvey, I'm sure Subaru do know what they're on about for standard cars, driven by standard people on standard roads.
Problem is, most of the cars on here are modified to some extent and we all push the performance envelope to the max, with the odd track day thrash thown in.
That's why we need the very best oil, uprated brakes, good tyres, stiffer suspension and dash full of gauges to keep an eye on things.
Richard.
Problem is, most of the cars on here are modified to some extent and we all push the performance envelope to the max, with the odd track day thrash thown in.
That's why we need the very best oil, uprated brakes, good tyres, stiffer suspension and dash full of gauges to keep an eye on things.
Richard.
03 March 2002, 11:04 PM
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Just as an asides, I mailed the guy who's site I refferred to earlier.
I've asked loads of additional questions mostly relating to the comparisons/benefits/disadvantages between semi and fully synthetics... the first line of his reply to me is shown below.
Semi synthetics are like being half pregnant. None of the benefits and all of the drawbacks.
Mike.
[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 3/3/2002 11:31:50 PM]
I've asked loads of additional questions mostly relating to the comparisons/benefits/disadvantages between semi and fully synthetics... the first line of his reply to me is shown below.
Semi synthetics are like being half pregnant. None of the benefits and all of the drawbacks.
Mike.
[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 3/3/2002 11:31:50 PM]
09 April 2002, 11:46 AM
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This is an official reply from Mobil when I questioned what oil my dealer was using -
If the dealer is supplied by Mobil then he will indeed be getting Mobil 1
5W-40 from us. We supply this grade to dealerships as Subaru have not yet
conducted tests with Mobil 1 0W-40 to give their approval.
Unfortunately we do not supply this grade retail in the UK so you would
have to obtain oil for top-up from your dealer while the vehicle is under
warranty. Out of warranty you should be able to use Mobil 1 0W-40 which is
, of course, readily available through Halfords, Esso Service Stations &
other specialist automotive retailers.
Regards
Fred Wells
Technical Advisor
Mobil 1 Help Desk
If the dealer is supplied by Mobil then he will indeed be getting Mobil 1
5W-40 from us. We supply this grade to dealerships as Subaru have not yet
conducted tests with Mobil 1 0W-40 to give their approval.
Unfortunately we do not supply this grade retail in the UK so you would
have to obtain oil for top-up from your dealer while the vehicle is under
warranty. Out of warranty you should be able to use Mobil 1 0W-40 which is
, of course, readily available through Halfords, Esso Service Stations &
other specialist automotive retailers.
Regards
Fred Wells
Technical Advisor
Mobil 1 Help Desk
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