johnfelstead

Just curious.... 2 questions....

What pressures did you run on track at oulton?

Did you go off at all?

Tim Taylor

35 psi all round on P Zero's 205/45/17
No overheating
No offs

Tim

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

35psi all round on standard MY99 wheels with SO2's - part worn & swopped insides to out (after 2 track days on one side). Negligable tyre wear.

Only went off when car in front span all over the place & I went to avoid him

dingy

32, Yoko A520, 195x45x15.......

Only went off cause i could slow down enough into chicanes....no offs on the bends...although i came close

[This message has been edited by dingy (edited 30 January 2001).]

PaulFisher

36 rear, 38 front.

Based on advise from Northampton tyre bloke. No offs, one close shave with strange understeer, then oversteer in the dip on *the* corner. Bizare.

Wont have them that way again, but I'm rear wheel drive... I'll try 40 rear, 38 front next time. Never had it do that before, it normally just carrys on understeering (Compensates for my crap driving) until you put power down to flick the back end out... then you can controll the drift with youre foot if you're quick enough, otherwise you just foot off the pedal and it snaps right back in. I'm going to do another airfield day, and take a hand-pump to play, and to work out the best combi for the M5...

///Paul.

Type R

I ran 40 all round with slicks on, 36 all round with RE010. (195 55 15). No offs except second lap, overran turn in point at Knickerbrock and trundled across a little grass.

GaryC

40 front/37 rear Bridgestone SO2 17"

No offs
No understeer
No outbraking

Lots of

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

35 f+r, I was going to try 40 but Elvis said NO!

No offs/understeer/braking probs.

Tyres still OK but only driving 85-95%

I'll try 38 all round next time.

F

Mike@PD

Question for jonfelstead!

When doing a special stages rally and you had to use forest tyres on a tarmac stage because the next service was three forest stages away, did you crash and burn or did you adapt your driving style accordingly and not crash ? Im not having a go mate as i think we bat on the same wicket. What i am trying to put over is that a good driver doesn't crash just because he has less grip i.e when running higher tyre pressures to enjoy cost effective track days or driving on sheet ice with 225/45x17s!

I agree with the poll and note the responses so far. Remember its a different story on airfield track days because they are much more abrasive and amateur drivers tend to use more lock (your 22b cornering with hardly any noticable steering endorsement is my case in point as what you stated was absolutely true to the letter)

As i said before, the proof of the pudding etc etc. Someone has remarked that they tried higher pressures and found them to disadvntage them however they went on the say that the tyre were cheap, hard crap about 135/70x13s !!!!

Bottom line is i do it, mike woods does it, bob garner does it and geoff painter too ! and they all swear by it. I guess we have flogged this out to be a difference of opinion that will remain unresolved and therefore i declair that i will comment no more and leave each to their own.

Remember, its good to talk.

Best Regards
Mike@PD

PS Am i right in believing it was a cold day and the track was damp ? If so i too would have used pressures around about the 40psi mark.

[This message has been edited by Mike@PD (edited 30 January 2001).]

harj

In the morning I ran 35psi then when it was dry I boosted upto 40psi and what a difference!!

Best thing is Stef and I had hardly and tyre wear at all and I was certainly giving it some running with Conti's part worns on the 22B

Great advice and it works!

johnfelstead

Hi mike, your absolutely right in what you say about running higher presures being better for tyre life and carcass control.

What i dont think got accross initially was that in doing this you will lose some of the grip from the tyre.

Also, in current weather conditions 40PSI is far more realistic due to the low grip available from a green track that will not allow much heat to build in the tread blocks as you would see during the spring/summer months.

You also spot on in that you should drive within the available grip. Driving on tarmac stages with forest suspension and tyres on is a right giggle, it gets very interesting when doing rallies like the somerset stages where you run up Porloc Hill tarmac stage on forest suspension but slick tyres, now that really is quite a challenge to get the maximun performance and not a huge amount of fun if you are trying hard.

Getting all these small facts accross to people who dont have a massive amount of experience is not an easy task at all, as the circumstances alter the advice you need to give.

I was just curious as to what people were doing diferently at oulton over previous days, as there seemed to be far more off track incedents than normal, running very low grip levels may have contributed to that, i dunno, just some thoughts going through my mind.

I am extremely pleased that someone of your experience is posting on here, we can all learn from what you have to say, myself included. So keep up the postings, its very much apreciated.

One of the most fundemental lessons to learn about getting the maximum from a tyre never, ever seems to be discussed, and you see people doing it wrong, even at F1 level.

The natural reaction of a driver if they start to have understeer is to apply more lock, all this does is increase the slip angle of the tyre and take even more grip away. What you should actually do is take some lock off, this brings the tyre back inside its working slip angle and gives more grip, increasing your turn in and reducing the understeer. Sounds freeky i know, but try it, what you should end up with is using hardly any steering input at all. It seems very common from what i see on track for AWD drivers to be pilling the lock on in wonderfully graphic understeer, take the lock off, youll be surprised what happens, trust me.

(but practice this where its safe and you arent going to go barralling into a wall or something!!! )

Gary Foster

I posted that I had tried higher pressures (nearly 50 psi) I found them substantially less grippy - not a little a *lot*.

Cornering speeds I found to be as little as half (with the same incompetent driver - me). The track had probably dried quite a bit by the time I got out with lower pressures however.

I then went on to point out - the track was wet it was cold and I was using very cheap and hard part worns, I have no idea how much difference this would make, but I thought it was probably important hence I mentioned it. This was on a Scoob with 205/50/16's

I did point all this out. I'm not trying to wind anyone up but this is what happened. I'm sure the wet / tyre combination have a lot to do with it, but I wouldn't call myself qualified to comment.

Phew, anyway I'm giving it another go when it's dry, but I'll try building my speed up gradually (rather than ploughing straight in like the complete moron I am).

Gary Foster

John

I don't seem to be getting understeer anymore - what am I doing wrong ? I'm sure all cars are supposed to understeer. I know I've had bump steer done + it has got Eibachs (make any difference ?).

I assume I am doing something wrong, have a tendency for the whole car to run towards the outside edge of the track if I apply a bit more power and to drift towards the apex if I reduce power a bit.

But it doesn't feel like understeer (not like it used to anyway), maybe it is but it's not so pronounced.

Oh well. I prefer it now, but it scares me when I get it wrong (I swear I'm not lifting off, but the back starts to come round anyway)

I don't understand this stuff.

I reckon we should have a 'Learner Drivers' forum added, I seem to be asking these questions a lot recently

Gary

Stef

I ran 40 psi in the morning when it was damp, and then upped it to 48psi in the afternoon. Slightly higher than I would normally run but I thought I'd try it after reading Mike's post.
I have to say I didn't notice any loss of grip and tyre wear was virtually zero. Never actually went off (for a change! ), but had a couple of close shaves, due mainly to entering the corner too fast rather than understeering.

Stef.

DIGGY

38 psi all round, seemed to work fine, No tire wear either which was nice!!

johnfelstead

guys, dont get too excited.

Oulton is a relatively low abrasion circuit, they are all diferent you know.

Gary, not all cars understeer, they are safer for a novice if they do, but ideally you want a neutral handling car.

Having the bump steer mod certainly makes the impreza more neutral, its then up to the driver to exploit that, however, if you are not quite sure what your inputs are going to do when the car is setup this way, it will feel more nervous and less predictable for you.

Maybe worth having some one on one tuition to see where your problems are coming from, it may be something as simple as the way you release the brakes on corner entry?

Gary Foster

John you offering ?

what about the 'novices day' that was being organised ? this would seem like the ideal opportunity , your too busy on normal track days, you know you'd never get the chance.

Funny you should say that, I was just watching my vids of Goodwood (haven't got the bits where it was slippy) and I swear I am not getting my foot on the throttle before I turn in. Tricky to tell from the engine noise, could just be applying a little to stop the car slowing down as I enter.

See I told you all John was allright, but would you listen

Andy Gough

Whats the 'Bump steer' mod?

TKH

Looked at a few posts pre saturday and upped pressure to 38 all round after covering 27 laps on / off tyre wear was minimal on rears but shoulder on N.S.F. is showing signs of wear and O.S.F. not much better but have to admit running higher pressures improved steering feel aswell as making break away dedectable alot earlier on ( SO 2 P.P.'S )

Regards

Tim


[This message has been edited by TKH (edited 31 January 2001).]

Stef

Andy.
Do a search for it and you'll find loads of info.

Stef.