View Poll Results: What do dump valves do
Allows the turbo to keep spinning, so reducing lag
18
69.23%
Prevents compressor surge
4
15.38%
Prevents surge at the expense of some added lag
4
15.38%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll
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#1
Dump valves
Just wondered what people actually think they are fitted for.
been doing some research for a while and I think I know the answer (roughly)
been doing some research for a while and I think I know the answer (roughly)
Last edited by Gary C; 13 November 2008 at 08:35 AM.
#5
ooops, sorry, dont want to be a smarty pants. Just been tying to really get a handle on the reason.
I believe its compressor surge.
Given a compressor at maximum flow and at a constant speed for ease of description. When the flow through the compressor is reduced, ie closing the throttle (), the pressure rise across the compressor initially rises and remains stable up to the surge line.
Now the interesting bit.
After the surge line, a reduction in flow results in a reduction in pressure rise across the compressor.
A reduction in pressure rise leads to a reduction in flow
A reduction in flow leads to a reduction in pressure rise.... and therfore the flow collapses to zero.
At this point, the compressor comes out of stall, flow is re-established feeding the plenum until this is pressurised, the flow then falls below the surge line and the cycle repeats itself.
The dump valve ensures that even with the throttle closed, enough flow is maintained through the compressor to keep it above the surge line.
Last edited by Gary C; 13 November 2008 at 12:16 PM.
#6
Thing is, with a dump valve allowing a flow path, the compressor is doing work moving a mass of air. This must take some energy from the spinning compressor/turbine and therfore slow it down.
I think that some competition cars (Audi sport quattro being the first I remember making strange 'squeaking' noises on overrun) dont have a dump valve and allow the compressor to run in stall/surge reducing the amount the compressor spins down by thus reducing lag.
I think that some competition cars (Audi sport quattro being the first I remember making strange 'squeaking' noises on overrun) dont have a dump valve and allow the compressor to run in stall/surge reducing the amount the compressor spins down by thus reducing lag.
#7
Dump valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Blowoff valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I would agree, loads more in that link above aswell.
Dump valves are fitted to the engines of turbo charged cars and sit between the turbo outlet and the throttle body. When transitioning from a boosted state to a closed throttle state (as in between shifts), due to inertia, the turbo continues to pressurize air, but the closed throttle prevents the compressed air from entering the engine. In this case the pressure exceeds the preset spring pressure in the dump valve and the excess pressure is bled off to atmosphere.
Even with a dump valve the compressed air acts as a brake on the turbo (slowing it down), because the pressure on the backside of the turbo is at a higher pressure than on the front side (and the air actually wants to flow through the turbo backwards). A blowoff valve is a more elegant solution to this problem by allowing the turbo to "freewheel" when the throttle is closed (equalizing the pressure on both sides of the turbo). Unlike a dump valve a blowoff valve can be used at multiple boost settings without reconfiguration.
Blowoff valves are sometimes incorrectly called dump valves because they serve a similar function, but they are very different solutions to the same problem.
Even with a dump valve the compressed air acts as a brake on the turbo (slowing it down), because the pressure on the backside of the turbo is at a higher pressure than on the front side (and the air actually wants to flow through the turbo backwards). A blowoff valve is a more elegant solution to this problem by allowing the turbo to "freewheel" when the throttle is closed (equalizing the pressure on both sides of the turbo). Unlike a dump valve a blowoff valve can be used at multiple boost settings without reconfiguration.
Blowoff valves are sometimes incorrectly called dump valves because they serve a similar function, but they are very different solutions to the same problem.
Blowoff valves are used to prevent compressor surge. Compressor surge is a phenomenon that occurs when lifting off the throttle of a turbocharged car (with a non-existent or faulty bypass valve). When the throttle plate on a turbocharged engine running boost closes, high pressure in the intake system has nowhere to go. It is forced to travel back to the turbocharger in the form of a pressure wave. This results in the wheel rapidly decreasing speed and stalling. The driver will notice a fluttering air sound.
So I would agree, loads more in that link above aswell.
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#8
But I belived that neither are really correct.
The high pressure is not forced backwards and does not cause the wheel speed to decrease.
If you look at a compressor map, you will see that for a given wheel speed, the pressure rise increases then falls as the flow reduces leading to flow collapse & surge. I believe that some competion cars allow the compressor to enter surge to reduce lag.
Try it with a leaf blower, if you block the exhaust pipe, the engine speed increases as the load (ie moving the air mass) has reduced.
The high pressure is not forced backwards and does not cause the wheel speed to decrease.
If you look at a compressor map, you will see that for a given wheel speed, the pressure rise increases then falls as the flow reduces leading to flow collapse & surge. I believe that some competion cars allow the compressor to enter surge to reduce lag.
Try it with a leaf blower, if you block the exhaust pipe, the engine speed increases as the load (ie moving the air mass) has reduced.
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