Steve001

iTrader: (7)

I received a N.I.P. a week ago and sent this letter.

Dear ******

Please find enclosed the completed notice form. However, before you proceed can you please take a moment to consider that I may have or may not have committed the offence; there is not doubt that my car was recorded marginally over the speed limit on a road I travel at least 4 times daily.

On the morning in question both my wife and myself drove the same route within a 10 to 15 minute period. I had dropped my wife off at the ASDA Supermarket while she picked up a few groceries at this time I decided to visit the local CO-OP store to buy some cigarettes and my favourite onion rolls, after this I returned to ASDA and loaded the car with the shopping. My wife then decided she wanted to drive back to ****** taking the same route I had just taken through ******* towards *******. I must admit on both occasions I did not notice the speed camera flash! I also cannot give an exact time either my wife or myself actually passed the camera location, I simply don’t know (sorry).

Please see attached map showing the routes taken on that morning.

I have now received yet another NIP form to fill in, what do i do now? it seems that to avoid a court hearing (that i haven't got the time OR money to attend) i must incriminate myself.

cheers

steve

BTW they have included a nice picture of my car but i still cant see from that who was driving!!!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

That's about the top and bottom of it. The Scammers are DESPERATE for your money. If you try and be clever, they will ignore your every plea, just keep asking you to incriminate, and finally, when it goes to court you'll get a bigger fine and more points.

Take it from one who's been there: just take the fine/points.

Alcazar

DYK

mmmm tricky one m8,cuz basically you wanna blame it on the wife..if you use that route regular like you say,then unlikely you were speeding..but what kind of speed camera was it,as the truvelo do not flash,they use an invisible flash and can flash you from the front of the vehicle aswell..normally with truvelo cameras you need actual visual photo ID,proof as to who was driving for a conviction..but that only applies in some countries...

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

it was a standard gatso

it could well have been me OR WAS IT?? I just dont know, who keeps a minute by minute record of thier activities? i just know it was one of us. I deffo ain't gonna get in a big row with the missus over this!


steve

GC8

Blame your wife and then see that she doesnt respond to the letter, or have her blame you in return. Leave it to the last moment and youll be out of time before they can nick you.

corradoboy

Does the unfilled in NIP with attached statement still work, whereby you would supply the information requested on a separate letter, but point out that as you have not been formally cautioned and charged by the prosecuting officer, that the information you willingly provided upon request is inadmissible in a court of law ?? Or did they manage to close that loophole ??

Nigel H

peppipoo.com

It's known as the Hamilton defence IIRC

340BHP-WRX

iTrader: (6)

I know someone who recently got away with this by writing a letter saying that his wife was driving and there was a car following her with 4 guys in that she was trying to put some distance between.

I said he'd never get away with that but he got a letter saying on this occasion they will be taking no further action

Get A Grip

You can either plead guilty or not guilty.

If it is guilty, then you accept the case brought by the police. Take the fine, and remember that points and a disqualification are discretionary penalties the bench can hand down.

If you plead not guilty (on the basis, it appears, that you do not know who the driver was) you have to present that defence to the court.

The court should only convict if the evidence of speeding by the driver is proved beyond reasonable doubt. If there is doubt as to the identity of the driver, the Bench should not convict. You may not get your defence costs.

There you are, in a nut shell.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Take it on the chin and except the 3 points, get a camera locator like road angel or tom tom and concentrate next time

Tony

DANGEROUS DAVY

Try contacting this guy he may be able to help you Adam Blair @ BTST <tips@beatthespeedtrap.co.uk>

PantsUK

iTrader: (1)

I got away with one by saying I didn't know who was driving it could be me or the wife can you check.. or let me check the photo. They said the photo wasn't clear therefore couldn't be sure who it was ....

Dont do it again was the final response they gave me !!

cster

I'm not sure on this.
However I don't think you can sign a document to say you knew who was driving if you in fact do not.
If you did and were later proved incorrect, you would be guilty of the far more serious offence of perverting the course of justice.
Why don't you just say you are prepared to say for the sake of argument you think you were driving the car, but are not prepared to swear in court or indeed sign any document that may be used in evidence that you were.
Might present them with a conundrum.
BTW I gather it is in Chester that this happened. 35 seems a bit harsh.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Standard procedure is to send you another NIP out & include the Gatso images ...Just send another letter back stating that you still cant make out who is driving & would appreciate some advice as to how to proceed

That's what i had to do with the Derbyshire Constabulary, I never got a 2nd reply but assume they have dropped my 55 in a 50, as I haven't heard from them in over 2 years!

If it does go to court (which i very much doubt for 35 in a 30), you'll both have to go & state you can't remember who was driving & depending on the magistrates mood you'll either get let off or the named driver will get 3 points & a maximum £1000 fine ...but it's usually about £60 plus court costs

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

thanks for the replys guys

i will prob (in the end) take the 3 & £60, but not just yet, as i said i cant afford the time and take the chance (depending on the mood of the magistrate) a bigger fine! as for the picture, the image does NOT show anyone in the car, just the back end of the car.

they have said that my original letter is now stored on file, i think i will send back my own form and an SAE for them to sign! with a copy for them something like......

'please sign below (with name and possition) to acknowlege that i return the completed NIP under threat of court action BUT still cannot confirm who was driving at the time of the offence.'

usually i would say well 'fair cop' but its the principal of the thing

steve

CHUNKY.MONKEY.

dont be a mug mate leave it to the last minute try n get away with it robbing ba*tards they rely on people just giving in get some advice n good letter from motoring solicitor normally works for this sort of case few phonecalls thats all goodluck

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

the 'last minute'??? explain??

thanks

andy97

iTrader: (1)

You have 28 days from receiving the NIP to identify the driver. If you cannot genuinely name the driver you must excercise reasonable dilligence in trying to find out who was the driver. If you dont name a driver then, best cousre of action is name the possible drivers and stick to this defence only(dont mix defences, you'll lose credibilty if it goes to court.)By not naming the driver, you invite the charge of failing to furnish, which if found guilty is 6 points.The speeding charge if you decided to take it to court would carry 3 points, due to the minor level over the limit.The previous methods of defence by using pace or not signing are non starters, these have all been defeated in the high court or the ECHR.Either name the driver and fight the allegation if you so wish orIf you cant remember who was driving list the possible drivers and stick to the Sub section 4 defence sec172 RTA1988Andy

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

looks very likley that i will eventually have to name myself as the driver even though im not sure we all know what will happen if i go to court, 'performance car driver, must be as guilty as sin' and throw the book at me


is it worth adding this to my letter?..............

Quote.... ACPO (association of chief police officers) recommends speed limit plus 10% + 2mph which means I would fall into the guidelines for a 30mph

steve

corradoboy

It's not a guideline for how much you or I can break the law, but a guideline for a recommended amount of reasonable discretion when enforcing the law. Technically, 30.1mph is as illegal as 35 or more, but they allow for minor oversights and discrepancies in equipment (theirs and yours).

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

I have never denied that my car was over the limit (breaking the law) so its all down to reasonable discretion when enforcing the law vs. making a few quid for the government. but we all know that anyway

Steve

BTW on the subject of reasonable discretion. i forgot to say that its North Wales Police im dealing with here.....nuff said

daddyscoob

From experiance - I went down a similar route when flashed on my motorbike and then the car 4 weeks later. I took the first ponits on the chin but then thought f**k it I didn't want 6 points.
So I wrote a very similar letter ( lived near Cannock then so South Staffs force ). Got a letter back with a pic from the back of the car not really showing who was driving.
My intention was to reply saying sorry still can't tell. However I left it and left it and approx 3 mths later had a letter back saying don't do it again.

Since then a friend and the wife tried similar and got done. The wife got 3 points and a £185 fine. The offence code is really nasty not just an SP.

She didn't take my advice on the wording of the letter so it's hit and miss....

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

give your wife the points job done!!

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Check peppipoo, its something like the section 4 defense, where you show due diligence in trying to identify the driver, but are still unsure, so sign the NIP and state the driver is one of either you or the wife. Say you cannot be more precise and if they have any evidence to help identify then please submit it.

There is a standard letter on peppipoo to help in this case

Turbo2

I'm intrigued by these onion rolls. I've never noticed them in my local Co-Op before so I'll keep a look out for them next time I'm there. Fortunately it's only walking distance for me, so I shouldn't get into any trouble with the law.

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

I wondered when someone would ask

The CO-OP make there own baguettes baked fresh on the premises they are boooootiful with a nice curry (yum)