Dream Weaver

OK Here's the deal

I have £10,000 to spend on a new car in February, which has to include insurance for the first year.

My final choice has come down to either a Pug 306 Rallye/GTi-6 or a Scooby. What do I do?

A 99T Rallye with 12k miles is about £9k, and I could get a MY97-ish UK Scooby for the same money but higher mileage and no warranty. Insurance is about £1k for both. Therefore not much difference in actually buying and insuring either.

The problem is servicing and MPG. I will be doing 1500 miles per month, half mway, half A/B Roads.

Which do I buy. I need "relatively" cheap running costs, so anyone know the difference per annum in owning the 2?

Simon

mattski

just one word.... Impreza

McMiata Man

I have a 306 XSI and an MX5. I could sell both and get a Scooby. The only thing stopping me (at the moment)is the running costs. I could not enjoy my Scooby knowing that if I broke it I couldn't afford to fix it, unless it was done on the cheap, which is just not an option when it comes to these cars.

So I'll be keeping the 306 for a while. So far it's been great. Handling is superb, brakes are responsive (ABS too) and the drive is comfortable.

And of course the 306 looks tasty (3 door of course)

My insurance for the 306 - £350 fully comp
Costs £45.00 to fill her up!!

Hope this helps

David.

Dave T-S

I've had both (GTI-6) - if running costs are the first priority, go for the 306....

Dream Weaver

Come on chaps

One of you must have the knowledge????

IntegraR

Firstly, the Pug is French, and the Scooby is Japanese.
The Subaru holds its value better, is faster, handles better, and commands more respect from fellow road users.
I would say the Scooby is worth the extra money, though I am saying this as someone who has done research on both cars, but I have owned neither (opted for the Honda Integra Type-R instead, though cost £13400 and over £2000/year to insure).
The real prob comes with the running costs. I know the Scooby drinks petrol at a huge rate of knots, and the servicing costs, in my research, are high. Why not bring a few other cars into the equation? like a Honda Civic VTi 3 door or something, I know Honda's are for retired people, but those are damn quick cars, and they are cheap to run and reliable, or a Golf GTi, there are a few options, unless you have your heart set on those two.
Its a difficult compromise, you dont get low running costs with high performance, so you have to balance the two. Find out what the Pug would cost you to run, phone them and get quotes for servicing etc, and see how much cheaper it would be to run against the Scooby. If the Scooby is not all that much more expensive, then that would be my choice.
Some specs:
Pug Rallye (slightly faster than GTi-6)
0-60 - 7.8s
0-100 - 20.7s
Top Speed - 130MPh
Scooby
0-60 - 5.3s
0-100 - 14.9s
Top Speed - 143MPh
All figures as tested by Autocar
3 door Civic, matches the 0-60 of the Pug, and is quicker to 100MPh, just in case you're interested.
The performance figure differences are pretty big, and if you want to dip into the 6 seconds (to 60) bracket for that money, the Scooby, or maybe, if you could find one for that price a Fiat Coupe' Turbo, except they are Fiat, so they are relatively cr@p.
Original message, before editing, had a Saxo mentioned in the 0-60 bracket, which is untrue, as they are slower than that, and also have a "fall apart" clause included.

[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 08 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 08 January 2001).]

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

From personal experience I would never buy a French car again!!

I had a Citroen ZX 1.8 Furio M-reg. The ZX and 306 shared a lot components. Mine had an ECU failure and cost me £1200 to repair!!

I know of 2 ZX's, 1 XSI and 3 other 306 GTI-6 which had their ECU's fail just after the warranty period. As well as the documented car that Evo had!!

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy one, but get a good warranty, and extend it if you have to!!

Cheers
Andy

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

A difficult decision, but for running costs it will be the pug that comes out on top, the scoob is a thirsty monster and needs servicing every 7.5k compared to 20k on the pug. Fuel will kill you in the scoob, were as you may get 30mpg on the m/way in a scoob you should get 35ish in the pug and in town 17 for the scoob and 20+ for the pug.
Basically the pug is cheaper to run, by a fair margain too but if your on a budget then the scoob aint the one to have sorry

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Oh if you go for the pug then get the gti and not the rallye, the aircon is great in summer

Well another quick story for you lot, ive owned both gti-6's and a scoob so when i went car shopping yesterday at carcraft in sheffield with a friend of mine who has her heart set on a cabriolet i pointed out a gold 306 (yuk colour, dont get one in this!!) oh she was impressed then i saw a white one just down the row and said to her that my last one was white, and guess what??!! it WAS my old car some lucky bugger got themselves a great motor there (sold unfortunately or i would have had it back!!) ahhhhh 8 months and not sold <sniff>

buy the gti-6, more value for money

Tony

DavidRB

It boils down to what are you prepared to give up to own the Impreza.

I had a 306 XR for a while. A great car, good handling, lovely ride, but a bigger engine and stiffer springs wouldn't have turned it into an Impreza.

Personally, I think the 306 looks dated against other cars, it's all straight lines, so a 99 Pug won't look any newer than a MY97 Impreza. It's also about to be replaced by the 307, so it's no better off than the Scooby in that respect either.

If you want a good car that will be a lot of fun and offer some good thrills, buy the 306.

If you're prepared to scrimp and save extra pounds, maybe give up a new TV or stereo, but you want to buy a car that grabs your soul and demands to be driven, a car that makes you feel like Richard Burns or Colin McRae, a car that flatters your ego and calls you "wuss" in the same breath, a car that you look over your shoulder at <I>every damn time</I> you walk away from it, then there is only the Impreza.

longun

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by McMiata Man:
<B>I have a 306 XSI. [/quote]

I have one of these as well and I'm impressed with it, for a front wheel drive car it handle's well, cheap to run and I havn't had any prob's with mine yet, but it's only 3 months old so I'll have to wait and see for long term results.

Well the scooby what can I say except if you have got the money to get one and you think you could insure it and afford to run it then GET IT!!!!

I had the choice at the time I got mine and for me it came down to I needed a warrenty really because of the mileage I do(35,000 per year) and no one would give me a sensible insurance quote. I do wish I had got the scooby tho.


[This message has been edited by longun (edited 08 January 2001).]

Gussie Cup

I had the same sort of budget/concerns when I was looking for my next car. Having been a Scooby fan for a while I knew that buying anything less would be denying myself what I REALLY wanted. Having driven it, there was no other option.

I couldn't have made a better choice - 12 months down the line and every time I look at it let alone drive it, I get such a buzz.

There are Impreza Turbos, and there are 'all the others'. They are a class on their own.

Go for the Scoob - You won't regret it.

Martin Stirling

Scooby Dooby Doo..

IntegraR

Like, ok scoob.
Well, if the Scooby is too high on running costs, I will give you my 2nd choice. Just think on it, though its purely my opinion:
Honda Civic 1.6 VTi 3 dr, for a mint R reg, under 20000 miles, w/ FHSH, you will only pay about £8500 from a Honda dealer (hagling may be necessary, but they are out there, and that means £1500 for insurance, better radio? etc).
This will give you lower running costs to the GTi-6, less fuel bills (1.6 4 as opposed to 2.0 6 = big savings!!), less insurance (1.6 as opposed to 2.0), equivalent straight line performance with better handling, so better overall performance (Civic has double wishbone all round, very tight handling).
An added benefit is the fact that the car is virtually a sleeper, no one knows the potential, so you can kill smug gits from all sides. Residuals are stronger, and reliability and build quality are legendary. Plus V-TEC, so you get to make lots of noise.
These cars are getting bigger in tuning circles, so expect lots of add on parts soon, it gives you something a little more unique than the Pug.
Not taking anything away from the Pug, great car, but on a performance per buck basis, the Civ would be my choice in the under £10000 catagory.
Im on my 4th Honda, and I really battle to go for anything else, because they are that good. My next will be the new Civic Type-R or an S2000, but whatever, that 3 dr VTi will give the GTi-6 a good run for its money, and probably win.
Oh god, I should probably put the flame suit on, and before you ask, Im old, but not that old (28), so no old man jokes thanks.

camk

Sorry to dampen our usual enthusiasm but if you've got just 10grand and no reserve then I'd avoid the scoob for running costs and future repair costs not to mention insurance.
Insurance,parts and petrol are all expensive for Scoobs and if your buying in at that level you will need parts because despite what people say they do break down(clutch,heat shields, tyres,knock sensors etc) can all be considered needed relatively frequently.(mode \Flame Suit on)
I would also agree with earlier poster on French cars, I've had a Renault 19 and its one of the shoddiest cars I've owned so I'd go German or Jap. VW or Honda are the only sensible option if your on a budget that tight and need something reasonable to drive.

Regards
Cammy

Missing Details

Nobody has suggested keep hitching the rides with your Scooby buddies, save up for longer and get the scoob later.
If you buy anything else you know you'll always look twice when you see one!!

ed the dead

Three words :

PUGS ARE PANTS

JoeyDeacon

Get the scoob, otherwise you will regret it EVERY time you see one...

"Buy cheap, Buy twice" as my gran probably said...

You NEVER regret going for the more expensive option.

teknopete

Yeah the Scoob will get u totally skint but they r well worth it. I`ll tell ya its a belter when u r m8s r gasing in the pub an some1 who`s been blurtin off bout their motor asks "what d u drive"? An impreza WRX.... Thats it end of conversation. It`s the pub equivalent 2 "SHUT THE ***** UP"

Remember it`s better 2 b able 2 say I had 1 than everybodys line of I could`ve had 1



[This message has been edited by teknopete (edited 08 January 2001).]

muddy

I had owned a series of 309 Gti's for 7 years, THEN I bought the scooby, never ever again will I buy FRENCH cars, they are shoddy, plasticy, unrealible, and just not up to the job whatsoever!!!.
Stick to Japanese or German !!!!!.


Muddy.

Kussimurran

I have a 306 Rallye. And an Integra Type-R. After the EVO and the Scoob.

Bought the Rallye as an interim car whilst deciding what else to get, but was so impressed by its handling we decided to keep it. Have now done 20000 miles in it.

On paper, its performance is humble compared to the Scoob, but f..k me what a driver's car!

It is more difficult to drive at the limit than the scoob, but if anything more rewarding in a way, fanstastically controllable lift-off oversteer, good brakes, and great ride. And it goes well, with a punchy, immediate feel.

On the down side, quality isn't by any means as good as the Subaru, it has a positiveley dreary interior, and little niggling faults.

A hoot to drive, and( I have to be careful on this one ), possibly one of the most entertaining cars I have had( when driving short distances ).

Whatever you choose, you'll have fun.

Neil Vickers

In the last 4 years I have run a Pug GTI-6, Scooby, Integra-R and now a Scooby again.

My advice, if money and running costs are ultimately an issue buy the Pug and have a scream. That said it won't be as reliable or hold it's value as well.

BUT I suggest you don't even test drive a Scooby :-) otherwise you won't want to go back.

Dave T-S

"Peugeots are crap" - boy this is Blinker City isn't it!!!

- but it's up to the individual. I personally think my MY00 is not "a car that you look over your shoulder at every damn time you walk away from it" - I think from some angles it looks really dated.

Dream Weaver, it's your money, do what YOU think is right

Dales

"Fantastic lift off oversteer?" - not so fantastic when you're going backwards into a wall - been there and done that in my old 306 XSI.
I seem to remember one in revs magazine a year or two ago doing exactly the same thing on the front page of the magazine.

Great handling up to a point, but very tricky to catch once they go, especially on a twisty piece of road.

The 8V engine in the XSi is no ball of fire either.

Go for the Scoob, you won't regret it...

Dales

GM

I've had three Pugs over the years - a 1.6 205 Gti, a 1.9 205 Gti and a 1.3 106 Rally. I never had any problems with any of them (apart from the 1.6 needing a new shell )

I had a look at a 206 gti last autumn and briefly considered getting a 306 gti-16 as I expected that there might be reasonable deals on them with the 307 imminent.

If you choose with your head you'll buy the Pug for all the sensible reasons people have already mentioned. If you choose with your heart you'll do what I did....and get the Impreza

G

Dave T-S

50,000 miles between a 306 S16 and 306 GTI-6 - no lift off oversteer problems.....(and only 13,000 miles per set of tyres...

mattski

right...definately gonna need anti-flame for this...

I am of the opinion the an Impreza will be the best bet, why?

1. If you are looking at one, you want one, the Peugeot is not anything like an Impreza and falls quite short of the mark. You get the Peugeot and you will always have something saying 'wish I had got the scoob'.

2. It *IS* worth spending the money on a scoob, they are fantastic and you will be grinning for months to come. I've had mine since June and it is still superb to drive and makes me get up at daft hours to drive the thing, I doubt the Peugeot would do that.

3. Look on a long-term basis. The Impreza is special, it is something that will remain special for a long time to come. The Peugeot (anti-flame ) is, lets face it, not special. Don't get me wrong, I rate them as a 'performance' car, but they are just not that special. I did consider a GTi-6 and a mate has an S16 and nice as they are I wouldn't give you a thankyou for them.

4. They are french, is that not reason enough?

5. French! Seriously tho, in my experience French cars are nothing but trouble, my Renault 19 16V was a nice car but had completely crap reliability. Apparently even the AA and RAC say that french cars have the worst reliability of the lot.

So go and buy an Impreza, believe me you won't regret it and you'll have a huge grin for ages and ages. Prob is you'll get used to it and want a quicker one

Matt

Dream Weaver

Cheers chaps, some excellent advice there.

And the decision is....not sure yet

I disagree on some of the Peugeot slatings. I had a 205 GTi for 18 months, and absolutely caned it all the time for 30,000 miles. I only spent £300 on repairs in that time and that was for normal stuff like water pump, radiator etc, though it did need Synchro on 2nd when I sold it.

IntegraR

I also think Hondas are great - I have a Rover at the moment with a Honda engine and it is the dogs bolls - revvy, very reliable, & fast. I did think about the Civic or Integra Type R but the insurance was too much. Out of principle I wont pay more than £1200 per year (Scoob quote), but the Integra was £1900 FC. I may well look into the Civic VTi though.

Thanks again fellas, may see you at Oulton Park, with or without new car.

mattski

oh, and whilst I remember...

Proof of the pudding is in the eating right?

Well, I took my mate with the S16 out in my WRX and he just went quiet, not a sound

Let him have a go and all he could say was 'bloody hell'.

Got back to work and guess who started to get prices on insurance and start looking for Impreza's?

Then he got his missus up the duff so needless to say he still has his S16.

so there

Dream Weaver

Just had a thought - now I will really get you all going.

There is a car that is very good value for money - Rover 220 Turbo Coupe - 200bhp, nice to look at, cheap parts (i.e. Rover 200)

Any takers???

Opinions Please, though I probably know the answer already.