mattski

I'll give you a Sun Ultra 10 for it

I got rid of a 220 coupe to get my Impreza.

Rover is a nice car tho, Turbo's are pretty quick but typical Rover build quality, not that the Impreza is much better but Rover is a Rover type thing.

Dream Weaver

Mattski

I aint selling one - I want opinions on buying one as a cheaper alternative to Pug or Scoob

DW

mattski

doh!

I thought it was 'nice' really, they go alright and are good on juice if you have a light right foot.

Bit uncomfortable on a long run and if it is the targa top watch for dodgy seals, cost a fortune.

I didn't have that many problems with mine to be honest, pretty reliable and yes, they are nice to look at.

They have hardly any boot space, although the back seats do fold down(ish).

I guess I would have one again as I still have got a bit of a soft spot although get ready for lots of pipe and slipper comments

Dream Weaver

IntegraR

Which Civic do I look for?

1.6 VTi or 1.8 VTi. According to Parkers the 1.8 is the quick(ish) one - 0-60 8.3

Simon

Ari Max

I`m a very lucky boy? currently my other half drives a 306 xsi,and my own machine is a my99 scoob.I have to say that the 306 is a fantastic handling car, with a cracking 16v engine.It is sooooooo much fun to drive,sticks to the road like shat on your boot.When we first purchased the 306 I spent a long time trying to find the limit of adhesion on this car (IN THE DRY ONLY!)I eventually gave up as entry pace into clear islands got to the point where if I had found the wrong side of the limit, it(the 306) would have been a serious piece of scrap probably along with me . Anyway point is the 306 is a great, fun, reliable car.
However the scoob it has to be said is in a different league.Finding the limit in this car is impossible legally on a public road.
But the sheer exhilaration of driving this car is simply undiscribeable.Plus save for a few yoofs having a go in the odd Nova,RST,etc
Not many people bother you .RESPECT on the road ,and with your mates.
If you can stretch to the scoob buy yourself a disklock and the scoob to go with it.you will NOT be dissapointed :cool

gavwright

Right. Here goes.....I had a May 99 306 Rallye, 'cos I couldn't get hold of a Scooby at the right price. Thought it was pretty good, but not as good as my previous car, a heavily modded 106 1.3 Rallye. I had the chance to get a Scoob, and did - imported it from Holland. The "'kin 'ell" factor of a Scoob cannot be underestimated, but ultimately I was ever so slightly disappointed, because it just didn't suit *me* (apart from anything else, I hated the understeer). I sold the Scoob and am now back with the Rallye, which I have started modding. The best mod I have made is Bridgestone S02-PPs all round. This, combined with the 35mm lowering and strut brace give it quite unbelievable grip and poise. Along with the Superchip and full Devil exhaust it's a rather nice machine. 0-60 and 30-70 in 7 seconds, before performance mods. Not sure now, but it is a wee bit quicker.

The Scoob is quicker, but in real life, most of the time, the 306 won't be far behind. It all depends on the way you drive, and how fast you want to drive. The 306 is a lot cheaper than the Scoob to run, and it's a helluva lot of fun, but it doesn't have the "F-me!" factor of the Scoob.

As ever, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Oh - I also like the Honda Accord Type-R, but I haven't owned one.

Help at all?????

Gav

IntegraR

Okay, you want the 1.6 VTi, the newer one is a couple hundreths of a sec slower than the '97- one, for some reason. Be careful about which figures you believe, because Honda are very conservative with the info they give.
A repeatable and average time for a Civic 1.6 VTi to 60MPh is around 7.8 secs, and it can actually be quicker than that, depending on how you want to drive your car.
The diff between the 1.8 and 1.6 is that the 1.8 is the 5 door, UK built, 1.6 is the 3 door Jap built.
I would go for the 1.6, it is said by Honda (a 97/98 model) to hit 60 in 8.0 secs, but it is quite a bit quicker, and if you do decide to take it to the track, the double wishbone (normally found on cars costing way more) will stand you in good stead when you arrive at a corner a little too quick.
They are very set up from the factory, engine pushes out 160BHP, and suspension is firm, you have to wind the engine, but you wont actually be doing any damage, its what they are built for, and it doesnt affect reliability or longevity.
I would say its a good alternative to the Pug for reliability, reasonable running costs, a car you can track and show reasonable results with, and something that is not too high on insurance. It also has better build quality, and holds its value well.
All you need to remember, is if you get a test drive, get it into the V-TEC. When I first drove a V-TEC, I was still in "normal car" mode. Changed at 5000RPM, but when you run this thing, V-TEC come in at around 5500RPM, and when you change at the red line, it drops back into the bottom of the V-TEC, and you start again. Thats how to drive them, like you want to slaughter the damn thing, but it is what its built for, thats how it wants to be driven. Just give it loads of gas, listen to it scream, and drive it hard, you'll find it to be quicker than the Pug, guarenteed.

IntegraR

Some details on the 3 dr, from Honda, and its 0-62MPh, which is why it can hit 0-60MPh a little quicker.
Displacement (cc) 1595cc
Max Power (bhp@rpm) 160 @ 7600
Max Speed (mph) 129mph
Acceleration (0-62 mph) 8.0secs
Fuel Consumption
Urban 25.8mpg
Extra Urban 41mpg
Combined 33.6mpg
"the sporty 1.6-litre VTEC DOHC VTi hatch develops an outstanding 160PS. This unit is tuned very much for performance – and how. Along with the McLaren F1, Ferrari's F355 and BMW's M3, these Civics are among the few naturally aspirated cars capable of achieving a specific output of 100bhp per litre or more." Jonathan Crouch, Auto journo type bloke.
Its a tough choice, performance wise, the Pug and Civ are close.
Ultimately you want the Scooby, those things are legends, but if its going to leave you with no cash, its probably not worth it, though I do give up a lot to have a cool car, so maybe it is. Just dont end up having a Scoob you cant afford to run, get something cheaper in the meantime, and then upgrade later.
Just my 2c

chiark

Take a test drive in both, preferably as near to each other as you can.

You'll know which one is right for you then. It really is the only way to know.

I wanted a Scoob for a couple of years, but couldn't afford one. Saved my pennies and budgeted for 15k. Took a test drive in a Puma, Audi A3 1.8T and a few other things. The subaru simply blew them away. Nearest thing to it in a "fun factor" way was a Pug 106 GTI... Got the car from Holland with aircon for around 16k all in - after a 5 month wait in which I saved the extra dosh

If I'd have bought the Puma, I'd have kicked myself *every* time I saw an Impreza.

It will be more expensive to own than you think. Servicing/failures aside, the temptation to modify is extremely large, especially after hearing a modified car

Whatever you choose, make sure it's the right one for you - test drive is really the only way IMHO, then sort out whether you can afford it or not.

Dave T-S

Ari max

Quote
"However the scoob it has to be said is in a different league.Finding the limit in this car is impossible legally on a public road."
Unquote

....I think you will find that a large number of Scoob drivers have found, and exceeded, the limit on public roads.....

john banks

Don't EVO magazine get sub 20 seconds for 306 Ral 0-100 and less than 7s for 0-60 - not seen any Honda VTI figures like those. And the 306GTI-6 is not 6 cyl as you say IntegraR - it's a four cyl with a six speed box. And what's the torque of the 1.6VTI - a bit low 130lbft ish and at high revs? - a bit like the Alfa Twin Sparks only more so - ie COMPLETELY gutless below 5000rpm - the 306 2L 16V engine manages a fairly impressive torque figure much lower down and off the track would surely be faster? Give me a nice 6 cyl like the 3.0 BMW or a turbo(diesel even!) any day of the week for real world performance over manic rev NA four cyls - even with VTEC which is cool but in limited circumstances - I hate the Scoob off boost - this would be torture! As the yanks say "there is no substitue for cubic inches" (unless you pretend with a super/turbocharger). At the end of the day you've got to get the air into these engines somehow.

I tried a 1.8VTI Civic and a 306GTI-6 before the Scoob (both 167bhp ish I think) - totally underwhelming in the Civic - high revs made a lot of noise, but no real push to speak of. 306 IMHO much better drive, albeit based on 30min tests of each only. The ride and handling of the 306 were in a different class IMHO. Build qual and reliability would be a different matter The 306 ride/handling can still impress after a Scoob - my brother in law has a 1.6 and it handles amazingly.

The Scoob is the only car I have ever tried (ie <30k new price) that forces you to buy one ASAP - you just cannot resist! The acceleration the first time you feel it is astonishing and every time thereafter. For admittedly higher running costs you would be getting something really special.

BUY THE SCOOB!


[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 09 January 2001).]

IntegraR

Well for no push, the 1.8 5 door family saloon manages to stay within 2 10th's of a second of Pugs 3 door 2.0 erformance car to 60 and 100MPh.
The figures from Evo are great, but the figures I quoted for the Civ are repeatable, and I would like to see who drove the Pug home after it had been pushed so hard. One off figures are impressive only in that context, they are one off's.
I tend to think of the performance below 5000RPM as NORMAL, what is the need for high performance when all you'll do is run into someones bumper? plus waste a load of fuel doing it.
Out of town driving is the only place you would take advantage of performance anyway, and you cant say that below 5000RPM it is any worse than any non-performance orientated car.
It seems like a good compromise to me. In a town/city, you have ample power to cruise behind someone, park, and negotiate pedestrians, and when the right road opens up, you put your foot down, and there's the power.
Add that to the build quality and no need for AA cover, and I think those factors outweigh the "French" qualities that would come with the Pug.
Its another option in car choice, though Im sure those Pugs are very quick, and can go much faster in bumper to bumper traffic

[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 09 January 2001).]

Dave T-S

Yes I totally agree the Renault 9 was badly built in 1979 or thereabouts - but the world has moved on a bit since then and the automotive (rising?) sun does not only shine out of Japan and Germany's bottom.......

Dave T-S

IntegraR
Take the Honda blinkers off M8 or this thread is going to be cruising down MuppetTown High Street......

IntegraR

No, not blinkers, I just suggested the car, and then the discussion got going, and I merely stated the facts.
Okay, maybe the Pug is a better all out performance car, maybe it is quicker, I dont know, just get the Scooby, lifes too short, and cruel, and if you dont fullfill your dreams, then you'll probably die before you're able to.
Who cares if a blooming Civ is a better bang for buck than a Pug, every time you buy then sell a car, you lose money.
Get the Scoob, look at it as a long term investment, and work out the costs as best you can.
Just do whatever is going to make you happy, or else you'll have to put up with regrets, and if you're a car enthusiast, there's nothing worse than getting into a car and going "damn, if only I had bought the" every day (which is what you will do with the Pug, but not the Civ.....sorry, one final plug, I had to!! )
Excuse me now, I believe I have a 15-30 at Ascot to run.

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

Not having driven a 306, I can't compare like with like, but as my VTR was essentially a scaled down 306 I will add my 2p worth.
Handling is very similar, understeer once you push on, easily sorted by lifting off, you can drive around sweeping corners flicking between over and understeer all day (as long as it is not on snow and ice, where the understeer stays just that). The limit is marginally higher for a Scooby (but not by as much as I expected) in the dry, but on a completely different planet in the wet. My only real problem was with rust (had the car for 2 years from new) the paintwork was all fine, but underneath the car I think they forgot to add any underseal, at its 24 month service amongst other things the radiator was classified as badly rusted.
Running costs are approximately doubled for the Impreza, servicing costs about the same (just twice as often) the tyres need replaced twice as often, it drinks twice as much petrol, etc.
If running costs are an issue get the Pug, if not then for the extra all round ability and overall performance the Scooby is the car to have.

camk

Dave TS,
I'me with Integra on the French bit, had a Renault 19 for 16 months around 1994ish, bought at 18 months old with 25K on the clock.
Back door fell off, went through 2 electric sunroofs in the first year and then sunroof broke again after further 3 months and warranty up(Not even used much in Glasgow ). Clutch pedal snapped(known problem), also had 2 new rear shelfs as lugs broke and servicing every 6 or 8K miles......plus was broken into 4 times.

Pure Shat
Cammy

john banks

Details from EVO:
1.6VTI/306Ral
0-60 7.0/6.9
0-100 21.0/19.2
BHP/TON 128/141
TORQUE 113@7000/142@5500
RATING ***/*****

If we were playing top trumps then I know which card would win. The Honda would have to be absolutely caned to keep up with the 306 - and they feel that way when you drive them - absolutely **** all torque at reasonable revs. That torque figure is laughable - barely more than 50% of UK Scoob at almost DOUBLE the engine speed! The Honda even weighs more than the Scoob (1250 vs 1235kg). In everyday use the Pug would be comprehensively faster in virtually all situations - even backroads. And the Scoob would make it look ridiculous. Would you really want to change down two gears when you wanted a quick whoosh past someone on the dual carriageway? Scoob in 5th gear will whoosh away past other traffic quite happily.

You know you want to buy the Scoob!


[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 09 January 2001).]

EdwardH

Had both, well GTI6 Pug.

1.GTI-6 not exactly economical.
Scooby much less so (mpg average low 20s??)and criminal around town or if the go pedal is pressed.

2.Scooby better built - I still have the mug full of screws that fell of my GTI-6.

3.Scooby dealers better ( Pug dealer I went to used to regularly swap parts on it with other cars e.g. trim, + nicked my spare wheel!)

4.Both cars great fun but Scooby a lot quicker .

5.Scooby insurance volatile.

Go for the scoob but be mindful on the mpg front + servicing on an older car may begin to get pricey!

Ed

Ed