Is a fmic necessary for big power gains?
22 June 2007, 11:47 PM
#1
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Is a fmic necessary for big power gains?
Hi, shortly my99 classic u.k turbo should be running a little over 300bhp
with the help of a vf35 turbo walbro fuel pump and remap.
ive never really been a fan of fmic's and have tried to deny the their existance for most of my life now as i dont really want to cut away at my bumper and apparently will have to remove my nice pipercross panel filter and replace it with a cone filter coz the pipework gets in the way!
So My question is- is it really necessary to have a fmic? what are the main gains as apposed to simply getting a larger top mount?
any help appreciated
with the help of a vf35 turbo walbro fuel pump and remap.ive never really been a fan of fmic's and have tried to deny the their existance for most of my life now as i dont really want to cut away at my bumper and apparently will have to remove my nice pipercross panel filter and replace it with a cone filter coz the pipework gets in the way!
So My question is- is it really necessary to have a fmic? what are the main gains as apposed to simply getting a larger top mount?
any help appreciated
22 June 2007, 11:53 PM
#4
It depends what you use your car for, if its for normal/spirited road use then no.
If you plan on doing lots of track days or prolonged high speeds maybe, depending on whether you plan on more upgrades.
Flat4 (kev) has done some testing with a temp probe with his car running 300-350bhp and showed no 'dangerous' intake temps.
I have read (although don't know of anyone thats tested it) that above 100mph the standard scoop becomes much less effective.
HTH
Dill
If you plan on doing lots of track days or prolonged high speeds maybe, depending on whether you plan on more upgrades.
Flat4 (kev) has done some testing with a temp probe with his car running 300-350bhp and showed no 'dangerous' intake temps.
I have read (although don't know of anyone thats tested it) that above 100mph the standard scoop becomes much less effective.
HTH
Dill
23 June 2007, 12:02 AM
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Dont really do a lot prolonged high speed driving or track days, but do like to take her out for some blasts through the countryside every now and then!
A guy has told me i may get a little more power by runnung a fmic with these mods. is there any truth in that?
basically a mate of mine has got exactly the same car as mine and his got 319bhp on the rolling road! his mods include td05 16g turbo remap fuel pump de-cat exhaust and fmic (+ a couple of other small things)
Im really looking to beat his figure to stop the b@st@rd bragging!!
A guy has told me i may get a little more power by runnung a fmic with these mods. is there any truth in that?
basically a mate of mine has got exactly the same car as mine and his got 319bhp on the rolling road! his mods include td05 16g turbo remap fuel pump de-cat exhaust and fmic (+ a couple of other small things)
Im really looking to beat his figure to stop the b@st@rd bragging!!
23 June 2007, 12:21 AM
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23 June 2007, 12:28 AM
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So is it just bhp bragging rights you`re after then scoobykev??
[/QUOTE]
No Honest
Ive been wanting a big power gain for a while now (plus the fact it will shut him up)
[/QUOTE]No Honest
Ive been wanting a big power gain for a while now (plus the fact it will shut him up)
23 June 2007, 12:33 AM
#9
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No Honest
Ive been wanting a big power gain for a while now (plus the fact it will shut him up)[/QUOTE]
It`s up to you mate really, i`m having one fitted next week to mine, mines at 331 bhp, i`m having one basically cus i`m having a forged build in the winter so i`ll need one, people say they make the car a bit laggier, but if you choose a good mapper it`s HARDLY noticable...
Ive been wanting a big power gain for a while now (plus the fact it will shut him up)
[/QUOTE]It`s up to you mate really, i`m having one fitted next week to mine, mines at 331 bhp, i`m having one basically cus i`m having a forged build in the winter so i`ll need one, people say they make the car a bit laggier, but if you choose a good mapper it`s HARDLY noticable...
23 June 2007, 12:41 AM
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23 June 2007, 12:42 AM
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23 June 2007, 12:46 AM
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23 June 2007, 03:15 AM
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The old Legacy top mount chargecooler is good to 400bhp, or there is the Pace combi charge/intercooler (pricey though!) if your dead set against FMIC's.
It doesn't really matter what power you want/are at, better chargecooling will give more power (and sustainably) than on the limit cooling, hence having a CAI and TMIC tilts etc etc are worth while, not to mention isolating the header tank from the manifold or manifold from head etc - and most of that is very inexpensive!
Simon.
It doesn't really matter what power you want/are at, better chargecooling will give more power (and sustainably) than on the limit cooling, hence having a CAI and TMIC tilts etc etc are worth while, not to mention isolating the header tank from the manifold or manifold from head etc - and most of that is very inexpensive!
Simon.
23 June 2007, 11:42 PM
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[/QUOTE]^^^^^
What he said, mines pretty modestly powered compared to alot of cars but its the way its delivered, hardly any lag at all, Zen all the way
24 June 2007, 02:38 AM
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24 June 2007, 02:07 PM
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A few things spring to mind from the above thread. Firstly I HAVE tested the scoop at high speed and can confirm that it is NOT a problem at over 100mph. The faster you go, the better it works, simple as that. That's on a v4 classic.
Secondly, I had a VF35, mapped by Zen on a Power FC for 1.4 bar and because of the small v4 TMIC, timing had to be pulled because the TMIC couldn't sustain a decent charge temp. A long through the gears run would see very high charge temps which were no good for power. Changing to a FMIC meant 4 degrees of advance could be added under full 1.4 bar boost, and it definitely felt a lot faster. Coupled to that is the confidence that you can keep your foot down pretty much forever without worrying about it, which you don't have with a TMIC.
Saying all that, if I was to do it all again, I'd probably do an STi8 TMIC conversion if it was cheap enough to be worth the hassle incl. the bigger scoop, messing around with the undertray, moving the clutch cylinder, fabbing up new mounts, having the TMIC hanging directly over the hot turbo at standstill etc. At present I don't think it's cheap enough a conversion to be worth the hassle and I'd still stick with the £200 FMIC which does its job perfectly.
Just be careful that you don't use a big bore silicone inlet pipe with the VF35, you'll run into surge problems like I have when adding a bigger TMIC or FMIC.
Secondly, I had a VF35, mapped by Zen on a Power FC for 1.4 bar and because of the small v4 TMIC, timing had to be pulled because the TMIC couldn't sustain a decent charge temp. A long through the gears run would see very high charge temps which were no good for power. Changing to a FMIC meant 4 degrees of advance could be added under full 1.4 bar boost, and it definitely felt a lot faster. Coupled to that is the confidence that you can keep your foot down pretty much forever without worrying about it, which you don't have with a TMIC.
Saying all that, if I was to do it all again, I'd probably do an STi8 TMIC conversion if it was cheap enough to be worth the hassle incl. the bigger scoop, messing around with the undertray, moving the clutch cylinder, fabbing up new mounts, having the TMIC hanging directly over the hot turbo at standstill etc. At present I don't think it's cheap enough a conversion to be worth the hassle and I'd still stick with the £200 FMIC which does its job perfectly.
Just be careful that you don't use a big bore silicone inlet pipe with the VF35, you'll run into surge problems like I have when adding a bigger TMIC or FMIC.
24 June 2007, 02:19 PM
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fmic
Thanks for all your help people,
ive done what i thought i'd never do and purchased a fmic
Its a brand new autobahn 88 (are these ang good
)
How hard are they to fit? and how long roughly do think it would take?
ive done what i thought i'd never do and purchased a fmic
Its a brand new autobahn 88 (are these ang good
)How hard are they to fit? and how long roughly do think it would take?
24 June 2007, 03:49 PM
#23
I've seen a thread stating that they'd (one person) fitted it in an afternoon, but seen more with several people helping having difficulties, getting it to fit.
If you have the garage space or don't need your car so that it doesn't matter if you don't finish it in a day, I'd say have a crack yourself.
24 June 2007, 06:13 PM
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24 June 2007, 06:58 PM
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I know that, yet still subaru insist of planting the intercooler ontop of the engine. Its not hard to have it front mounted.
24 June 2007, 07:22 PM
#28
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See KIP's thread in projects for a very comprehensive fitting guide.
Also, if your car is a daily driver, make sure you've got everything needed before you start pulling things to bits.
24 June 2007, 07:34 PM
#29
But back to the topic in hand now hey....
Tony.
24 June 2007, 08:59 PM
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Because on a road car there is no reason to have it front mounted, does the job required where it is and the packaging is very neat. If it needed to be front mounted for a production subaru it would have been.... i think the design engineers maybe slightly more clue up than you.
But back to the topic in hand now hey....
Tony.
But back to the topic in hand now hey....
Tony.
In really hot countries the scooby powers wane with enthusiastic driving due to heatsoak