miller

you`d have to be mad to compare the three
M3 = CLASS
STI7= my hearts in the right place
MITSI evo7 = untermench
p.s who mentioned skylines in the original?

[Edited by miller - 12/6/2001 12:10:02 AM]

Peritas

Thinking of Buying an M3 Scooby or Evo VII

Any suggestions
Which one to choose etc ?

Have any of ye raced the above ?

Adam M

evo 7.

but not driven sti 7.

M3 nice but rwd and a different type of car.

evo 7 simply the best driving car I have ever sat behind the wheel of, and that was in standard form.

Still would not swap mine for one.

steve McCulloch

Have to agree with Adam on that one, having now driven the the latest EVO


M3 - truly awful IMHO - I just did'nt think it had the power it was quoting - just does'nt seem fast at all - but then maybe thats just me. Plus would'nt feel confortable in the winter in it, with the potnetial for the back end to just lose it!

Scooby - dont know about the new versions

Perhaps you could look at getting a second hand one with a few mods and save yourself up to £15k or so in the process

I know a chap who bought an sti5 with low mileage and plenty of mods nearly a year ago now for about £16kish, which should mean that an sti5 with plenty of mods should be nearer the £13-£14k mark now (Craig Hardmans is up for sale... but maybe thats too modified for some people? - from an insurance angle?)

ARRON BIRD

Steve you obviously dont have a clue what your talking about.
I have owned versions of all the above and the M3 is in a class well above anything Japan can throw at it bar the Skyline which I`m also fortunate to be able to drive when I wish.
Best..... better.... faster.... is all a load of tosh. You need to look at money as well. The M3 is more expensive than the others for starters.
The DSC system on the M3 is so good that a complete ****** has basically no chance of the back end just spinning out!
Drive it hard in the sort of conditions we have now with the system off and yes you need to be on the ball. More of a drivers car than your Evo or Scoob.
As for speed this car is normally aspirated which means the power delivery is so different to the other two. It needs to be revved to really go but has bottom and middle that the other cars can only dream off.
Didnt have too much trouble dusting a few quickies at Bedford the other day and my car is totaly standard. Work that one out.
As for looks well again they are all a matter of personal opinion but to me it looks very purposefull.
Dont remember reading a bad write up on the M3 funny enough.Think you`ll find that all the mags give it a pretty good mention in the latest issues and I beleive it only gets beaten by Italy`s finest in one and thats a PERFORMANCE CAR report. Wake up and smell the Super UL mate.
Still it hasnt got Subaru or Mitsubishi on it so it must be ****.
I agree we should all be able to voice our opinions but be consistent.



[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 12/5/2001 7:50:38 PM]

Boxer

Have to agree with Arron about the M3. I rented one on my birthday, the back end was totally controlled by the DSC on wettish Alpine roads, without noticeable power cutting. I think the new Msport diff. has a say in this. I was impressed.

NeVeTaS2001

I don't care about how they go, I just care about how they look, and on that bases I'll take the evo because it looks like a mean bas*ard.

http://www.scoobies.co.uk

CraigH

0-100 in 11secs.

Yeah very slow.

Can't see a std STI or lightly modded one keeping up.

Some heavily modded ones won't either......

Because it doesn't feel quick, doesn't mean it isn't.

When you're on a plane it feels quite sedate - but you're still going 500mph+.

Still feels slow though

Chins

I was the complete ****** driving my M3 at Bedford the other day. No I didnt have the ***** to turn off DSC, but the car in the wet spent the whole time with the back end where it should be.

Arron did have the ***** and had a ball.

Steve are you sure you drove the new shape M3, because you would of realised that the back end has been tamed if you had.

As for the original post. If you have £40k to spend then go get an M3. Its as quick and safe in the wet as any EVO and Scooby, plus has an engine note to die for. It is a different car to the Scooby or EVO. Personally I have no hankering for an EVO. The looks, interior and fuel tank smaller than a scotsmans wallet put me off . Plus the additional servicing. I'll take the 15,000 mile service intervals please.

The one area the Scooby is probably better than the M3 is down rough country roads. Arron might fly down them, but I back off a little. maybe should of stuck with 18" rather than 19" wheels.

In the end none of the cars are bad. You really need to state what you are looking for.

EVO owners usually like to ram EVO mag down our necks. As Arron says the M3 finished 2nd in its car of the year. About 5 places above the EVO

Jonathan

Sam Elassar

the EVO 7 is a great drivers car by far the best car i have ever driven.the EVO 7 4wd system is almost as advanced as the skyline. M3 is a great car but they are totally different test drove the M COUPE few months back but it was not the car for me. if you are to take a scooby, evo and M3 across country in unfamiliar country roads, in various conditions, ie wet, snow, dry, rough etc.. the scooby and the EVO will win all the time.

with my modded scoob i have overtaken TVRs in the wet many times on track although it does 0-100 in 9-10secs it does not mean my car is faster, it is just more suited to the situation.
if you want a drag car just don't get an EVO or scoob unless of course you are craig.

adam
the reason you are not going to swap is the fact you are inthe exclusive 22B club. it is not like you have a standard scooby turbo.


sam
ps plus it is great to get a turbo charged car and spend months thinking about what is the next upgrade going to be i don't think you can do that with the M3 to the same extent. or maybe you could ?

ARRON BIRD

Are you feelin alright craig

Blow Dog

Evo 7 4WD and Skyline 4WD are two totally different concepts, you cannot possibly compare them. One has a totally rear bias, the other has a near perfect split.

Regardless, Evo 7 and M3 are also totally different cars. If you want the best thrills, you go for the Evo 7. If you want pure quality, with performance to boot, you buy the M3. Both are stunning cars, you simply can't go wrong. Especially when you can get an Evo 7 for £22k if you look hard enough. But then again, the M3's engine is possibly the finest I've ever experienced. But you simply cannot drive it the way you drive an Evo7. There is no better ground clearer. STi7 isn't even close, IMHO.

Don't listen to what magazines say, they talk utter bollox. If you listen to them, they'll tell you that you'll never need opposite lock an Evo or a Skyline.

If I had the choice? I was faced with exactly the same dilema, so I went for the big blue tank

Cem

Sam Elassar

cem
i just ment the active diff bit, don't thr skyline have some sort active diff

sam

ScottishMenace

Interesting topic I would suggest you decide if you want to spend £20K, £30K or £40K and then make your choice. Whatever you choose it will make you grin.

Blow Dog

Sam,

beats me

Cem

Sam Elassar

u just drive it right

SM
Well said you reallr can't loose sti7 is 25k though

fast bloke

Had a long awaited drive in a new M3 a couple of weeks ago. The main problem is that you have to look at the speedo to tell how quick you are going. 100+ comes up with no fuss and no concept of speed, so it does feel like you are lacking a lot of power. If all three cars where sitting there, and I just had to pick up the keys and drive off, it would probably be the M3. (Haven't driven an STI7 yet, but I still don't like the front end)

jackal

The M3 has had tepid reviews. One mag said it was pretty lame as a trackcar and ALL have commented on how awful the steering is - more feel from a double decker !!! IMO thats oneo of teh most importyant facets of a car. Ive heard from a m8 that the engine though is glorious - would have it over any turbocharged lump any day of the week (except perhaps twin 750bhp 6R4 ;-) ).

As for the evo, i own one and of course reckon it would murder an M3 down the lanes given same driver but then its 4wd. Also fatsest a to b isnt the b all and end all. M3 is a lot of nice car but i dont like the fact that its more like 50K once you got a bit of leather and some electric windows and evo5 or 6 is 15-20K !!! LOL. Id never buy that badge as well - way too conformist & mainstream.

Do yourself the biggest favour though, if you dont need the practicality spend your dough on a 190bhp elise/ exige or 340r. i.e. a real drivers car. Levels of communication, fun factor and involvement are in a different goddam stratosphere !!! These 4wd scoobs/evos/m3's are highly accomplished but they're Ford Galaxies in comparison...... foolproof to drive, inert and hugely boring ! Same goes for Caterham too.... superlight R will blow your **** off !

STill love my evo6 though.

KF

Any thoughts about the MG ZT385, due early next year?
4.6l V8, 380Bhp, less than £40k. Sounds fun
KF.

velryba

Did any of this helped you Peritas?

Chins

Jackal

Typical EVO owner I'm afraid. As stated above you select a mag and go on it. EVO put the M3 above the EVO VII this month. They seem pretty happy with the steering. Autocar rate it as the best car. Only Car mag that really hasnt given it top marks. In fact buying nearly every car mag out it has easily had the best reviews of any performance car over the past few years, and that includes the tweaked EVO VI demos. Didnt see Tiff moan about the M3.

Also to correct you. £39k get you one M3, Xenons, Leather Electric Seats, 18" alloy wheels, Park Distance Control, Stereo etc. Adding 19" wheels, SMG and upgrading the Stereo to include Sub, Amp and 6CD takes the price to £43k.

Jonathan

wilf

Chins,

Chins

You get all that but its still a BMW!

Not wishing to disagree with all the positive stuff said about the M3 on this thread but I think the point that it is a different style of car is quite true.

M3 is more of a true rear drive performance car than rally back roads racer and it depends upon preference at the end of the day.
Certainly if you want to cover wet and rough b roads as quickly as possible you would be better off in the evo or scoob. Autocar who love the M3 to bits said just that last year in their Exmoor supertest when they acknowledged that for all its techno trickery the M3 was slower in the wet over those sorts of roads than a standard WRX.

Not having driven the latest M3 I cannot comment. But saying that the old chestnuts "of not realising how fast you are going" alert me to the same old BMW warning signs - technical Tour de Force but bereft of any real charisma (original M3 and M635 excepted).

Peritas

The Forum Has really helped

Looking for a car that is amazing fun to drive quick through the B Roads but can handle hundreds of boring Motorways miles in comfort with pretty decent serving intervals.

Love RWD, man getting the tail out and wiggling it there on a nice slippy bend is all good fun.

good to see that there afew people out there wont dont agree woth Herr Blair and his Nanny State

Later

Adam M

Sounds to me like your mind is made up. M3 it is then.

You and the rest of the world.

The beauty of the BMW is you dont have to look for massive windows to admire your car, you can just look at every other one on the road. This is now when they are still hard to get hold of, give it a year or so.

The impreza is the same, that is why I still reckon evo 7 or perhaps 8 for me.

The M3 is without question the pone for you.

wilf

Peritas,

Sounds to me like the STi 7 would suit you. Scoobs are surprisingly refined and practical as an everyday car. I know cos the missus uses a P1 as a daily driver.

The new STi promises to be a bargain official UK car - peace of mind and all that performance to match the official EVO 7 (£30,995) for £25,995. Save the £15k from the M3 with either mods that would destroy it or a couple of exotic holidays.

wilf

Noticed the trend emerging here?

M3 owners telling you an M3
EVO owner telling you an EVO
Scoob owner telling you a Scoob

Hmmmmmm

jackal

"Noticed the trend emerging here?
EVO owner telling you an EVO"


errm... Im an evo owner and I advised to get an elise/exige/340r


Chins:

I agree with BDog that mags talk utter nonsense esp. EVO who try to be ohh so clever, my mate is art editor for Top gear - believe you me I know what goes on. Sure no-one said M3 was a crap car , of course its not but like I said one magazine said it was a poor trackday car but then thats obvious and shouldn't annoy you - if you bought it as a track car then your nuts. And as for teh steering, everything I have ever read and also someone I know who owns one says that it has very very poor steering thats hugely assisted and zero feel. If you think it isn't then judging by whats been said about it, you couldn't have ever driven a car with decent feel (and I dont mean any scooby or even an evo for that matter). For me thats very very important, teh wheel is the primary sensory connection when you drive and it feels like a marshmellow floating around in a bucket of axle grease then I don't get my chequebook out. If you can't feel very much then no amount of grip or torque or nice leather and walnut will make it a better drivers car. But then horses for courses, we all require different things.

In any case its you who are quoting the mags - for me they are just a bit of fun and some nice pictures. But for the record, the elise and EVO7 & Noble beat it comfortably in Autocars yearly handling test. Car magazine this month in their top 100 cars teh EVO7 comes 6th and teh M3 somewhere between 10 and 20th place. A year ago in Autocars best drivers car test teh M3 won but they said that the EVO6 would crucify the M3 in teh wet and its ultimately more thrilling... so its not as rosy as you suggest.

Anyway, forget what the mags say and enjoy. If you know in the bottom of your soul that you liek the car & are happy with it then what the **** ? My post wasn't really having a go at M3, just making a few factual points. Like I said I have heard that the engine is stunning and makes up for teh disappointing steering and you only have to look at pics or walk round one when parked up to see that its one highly polished and desirable motor.

There is NO evo/M3 war here. There is no competition - they are completely different motors and highly accomplished in their own right , 2 of the best cars you can currently blow your money on.

Peritas

Agree with Jackal

But BMW have also revised the steering on the M3 with something similiar from the new BMW compact so the steering issues should be sorted.
There is a long wait on the M3 now if ordering about 2 years.

Laters

ARRON BIRD

Peritas call Murketts at Huntingdon he has 15 comming next year. Ask for Simon Murkett.
01480 459551
Jackal I agree with most of your comments.
There is no doubt that for me the R34 has the best steering I have ever encountered in a road car and I also believe that the interior quality is superb......however I personally dont think its quite on par with the Beemer. For the cash I spent on my M3 I could have bought one with a lot of upgrades but I couldnt use one everyday like my Beemer.
I KNOW ON THIS ONE OK.
Out of the three mentioned cars on this thread I have owned a version of all and choose the M3.
Track car solely I choose the Skyline.
I dont know any editors or writers I make my own judgements.
I have an article in a mag that says the M3 if wert would probably cover ground quicker than a Skyline,a Porsche and a Tvr and another .
Its all bollox you make up your own mind.
And YES the M3 does have lacklustre steering but so did my P1 allong with many other faults.
I have got very used to it .
I drove an R34 yetersday and it was only then I realised what steering should feel like
Still Cem they drive themselves right...que David Lewis too....

jeremy

Arron,

I'm confused, you speak so positively about the Skyline, yet why do you prefer the M3? What does the M3 do that the Skyline cannot? Do you really feel that steering feel is over-rated- could it be that it really offers no safety advantage?

Thanks, JL