EVO car of the year - Is the Type 25 that bad?
24 November 2006, 12:02 AM
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EVO car of the year - Is the Type 25 that bad?
I have to say i was a little dissaponted with Evo's magazines outcome with regards to the ECOTY 2006. Litchfields Type 25 second to last.
WTF is that all about.
Surely the Type 25 ticks all the boxes that it is designed to be i.e. A practical 4 door saloon that point to point will embarrarass 99% of supercars and for 40k.
I just cannot see the reasoning behind their verdict.
They quote that its too fast and grips too well for the road - surely that is what you want and if they think that the pace of it is too fast then surely a Ferrari 599 and Lambo would be harder to hustle along due their weight and width.
Does it understeer like a pig? Er no.
Does is suffer from terrible turbo lag - No.
The only thing that they could criticise is the over light steering.
maybe the EVO journalists are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I can see it now, 'do i have to drive that Impreza/Evo again?' 'can i take the Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari which all cost at least twice as much.
The thing is we are not all driving gods and able to slide a Lambo at will - but imo the Type 25 offers genuine supercar beating performance to people who do not have the driving skills of Meaden or Metcalfe.
Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree? maybe i am wrong? but yes i am biased as i own a Subaru, but for me i really think EVO have taken leave of their senses.
It needs to re-name itself Porsche and Supercar Mag.
Because thats all they ever rate these days.
Spoke to someone at a meet the other night who has drove one.
Lets just say he owns a WR1 and he was still buzzing about it.
He said it makes his WR1 feel like a Ford Fiesta - Nuff said.
WTF is that all about.
Surely the Type 25 ticks all the boxes that it is designed to be i.e. A practical 4 door saloon that point to point will embarrarass 99% of supercars and for 40k.
I just cannot see the reasoning behind their verdict.
They quote that its too fast and grips too well for the road - surely that is what you want and if they think that the pace of it is too fast then surely a Ferrari 599 and Lambo would be harder to hustle along due their weight and width.
Does it understeer like a pig? Er no.
Does is suffer from terrible turbo lag - No.
The only thing that they could criticise is the over light steering.
maybe the EVO journalists are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I can see it now, 'do i have to drive that Impreza/Evo again?' 'can i take the Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari which all cost at least twice as much.
The thing is we are not all driving gods and able to slide a Lambo at will - but imo the Type 25 offers genuine supercar beating performance to people who do not have the driving skills of Meaden or Metcalfe.
Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree? maybe i am wrong? but yes i am biased as i own a Subaru, but for me i really think EVO have taken leave of their senses.
It needs to re-name itself Porsche and Supercar Mag.
Because thats all they ever rate these days.
Spoke to someone at a meet the other night who has drove one.
Lets just say he owns a WR1 and he was still buzzing about it.
He said it makes his WR1 feel like a Ford Fiesta - Nuff said.
24 November 2006, 07:10 AM
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The type 25 looked real good to me on Fifth Gear, if that was a bad car I would like to see a good one!!! 
A mag called EVO calling a Scooby a bad car, I wander why...........................
A mag called EVO calling a Scooby a bad car, I wander why...........................
24 November 2006, 08:18 AM
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The fact that the Litchfield bloke understood and AGREED with EVO's concerns and would have a look into what they are doing for their next car says that even the experts agree with EVO on this one.
It's about being the best drivers car, not being the fastest. Something that a few people on this site simply don't understand. They never will either as the following posts will illustrate
It's about being the best drivers car, not being the fastest. Something that a few people on this site simply don't understand. They never will either as the following posts will illustrate
24 November 2006, 08:20 AM
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What got me was that having marked the Type 25 as being a bit too fast for its own good and more about point to point speed than involvement etc.. they then put the Evo 2nd!!! 
I would have loved to have seen the Type 25 take on those supercars; bet it would have given them a bloody nose!
Ns04
I would have loved to have seen the Type 25 take on those supercars; bet it would have given them a bloody nose!
Ns04
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24 November 2006, 08:21 AM
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Bought the mag last night.
Their comments about it weren't actually that bad.
They did say that it was ridiculously quick (good !), and that it had the expected huge amounts of grip.
The critisism seemed to be mainly that it was more difficult to slide around the bends than the Evo FQ360. TBH, I'm not sure that this would be a major concern for most buyers ! I'd be quite happy with the fact that "my" (I wish !)
420bhp monster was glued to the road. Although round the bends there "really isn't a lot in it between the two cars", they also said that the Litchfield was in another league in the performance terms.
A bit contradictory !
Oh, and would anyone here prefer a Clio 197 to a Litchfield 25 ? No ??
Better value maybe, but at that point they were comparing all the sub £40k cars on a like for like basis. And the Clio came up ahead !
Andy Mc
Their comments about it weren't actually that bad.
They did say that it was ridiculously quick (good !), and that it had the expected huge amounts of grip.
The critisism seemed to be mainly that it was more difficult to slide around the bends than the Evo FQ360. TBH, I'm not sure that this would be a major concern for most buyers ! I'd be quite happy with the fact that "my" (I wish !)
420bhp monster was glued to the road. Although round the bends there "really isn't a lot in it between the two cars", they also said that the Litchfield was in another league in the performance terms.
A bit contradictory !
Oh, and would anyone here prefer a Clio 197 to a Litchfield 25 ? No ??
Better value maybe, but at that point they were comparing all the sub £40k cars on a like for like basis. And the Clio came up ahead !
Andy Mc
24 November 2006, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
It's about being the best drivers car, not being the fastest. Something that a few people on this site simply don't understand. They never will either as the following posts will illustrate
(couldn't help but notice your username !
).
24 November 2006, 08:26 AM
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They said basically the same thing in the 2004 COTY with the MY05 T25. They had even asked Iain to put a "rally" exhaust on the car and then complained how loud it was 
. I drove that car with that exhaust and it was fantastic, hence why I drive what I drive
. I drove that car with that exhaust and it was fantastic, hence why I drive what I drive
24 November 2006, 08:33 AM
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I quote Iain Litchfield who designed and built the car:
"We need to hear it (evo's criticisms). I think maybe we've been persuing ultimate speed to the detriment of involvment. I had a drive in the Elise which reminded me about the subtleties that we're perhaps forgetting"
That's SAYS IT ALL.
Anyway, no-one has said the car is BAD, merely no better than 9th in the COTY and not as good as some previous scoobies.
Of course that won't stop some over-sensitive cry-babies on here though
"We need to hear it (evo's criticisms). I think maybe we've been persuing ultimate speed to the detriment of involvment. I had a drive in the Elise which reminded me about the subtleties that we're perhaps forgetting"
That's SAYS IT ALL.
Anyway, no-one has said the car is BAD, merely no better than 9th in the COTY and not as good as some previous scoobies.
Of course that won't stop some over-sensitive cry-babies on here though
24 November 2006, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
The fact that the Litchfield bloke understood and AGREED with EVO's concerns and would have a look into what they are doing for their next car says that even the experts agree with EVO on this one.
I think Iain would have left that test feeling a bit surprised at their reaction.
Originally Posted by Dracoro
It's about being the best drivers car, not being the fastest. Something that a few people on this site simply don't understand. They never will either as the following posts will illustrate
I maintain that the average joe (and don't kid yourself, 99% of those on here are average-including me) SHOULD NOT be trying to break the limits of adhesion on these cars; their limits are just too high.
You wanna slide, get an MX5. That way, when you ***** it up, you hit the ditch at 40 rather than 90!!
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 24 November 2006 at 08:39 AM.
24 November 2006, 08:41 AM
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I drove the type 25 on saturday it is amazing,I have a WR1 with 480bhp and it is as quick as my car it corners like its on rails,I have driven an EVO340 and it is nowhere as good as the scooby,must agree with all the above comments.
24 November 2006, 08:43 AM
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Might be worth pointing out that what Evo says is not gospel !
Iain Litchfield was bound to be fairly humble under the circumstances. I don't think you can take his comments too literally though. Seems he was just being polite !
Note that a couple of the journalists preferred the Litchfield, so it could have gone either way.
Agree with NewScoob04 (Knock 'em dead !)
Iain Litchfield was bound to be fairly humble under the circumstances. I don't think you can take his comments too literally though. Seems he was just being polite !
Note that a couple of the journalists preferred the Litchfield, so it could have gone either way.
Agree with NewScoob04 (Knock 'em dead !)
24 November 2006, 09:42 AM
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Yes but one thing you have to remember the people also seemed to have a bit of a thing for the Suzuki, telling us how it managed to push a Porsche etc.. Well if i had a Porsche and could not outrun that piece of cr*p i would sell the car and take up flower arranging
Oh and the Scooby looks so much better than that EVO, that red is awfull
Oh and the Scooby looks so much better than that EVO, that red is awfull
24 November 2006, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by theboy
Oh and the Scooby looks so much better than that EVO, that red is awfull
24 November 2006, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by The Chief
[Evo] needs to re-name itself Porsche and Supercar Mag.
Because thats all they ever rate these days.
24 November 2006, 03:19 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by speedking
... but a car where the tyres, brake pads, suspension settings have to be changed with the weather is not an ideal daily driver!
24 November 2006, 03:25 PM
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haha rafpmsl, had to larf at the bit where it says no mter how they tried it wouldn't oversteer/understeeer just went round the corner, and they claim that is bad?? shame its the fastest way round a corner.
although i do wonder about he asking price (thats my personal view) fo £40k, its a lot of bang for you buck
although i do wonder about he asking price (thats my personal view) fo £40k, its a lot of bang for you buck
24 November 2006, 07:47 PM
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The only car the Type-25 was better than was the suzuki swift.
Since the Type-25 is far better than any other scoob what does that say about the rest... And like most of the owners on here Litchfield attempted to make the fastest car but left handling, finesse, styling and interior long behind....
Since the Type-25 is far better than any other scoob what does that say about the rest... And like most of the owners on here Litchfield attempted to make the fastest car but left handling, finesse, styling and interior long behind....
24 November 2006, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonno_johnson
as ia int got evo mag can someone give me the tech spec of this car please, the type 25 that is.
415bhp @ 6,500rpm (400bhp from 5,800rpm − 7,000rpm)
570Nm / 420lbft @ 3,800rpm (300lbft from 3,000rpm)
8,000rpm Redline
304bhp/ton
0−60mph in 3.7sec
0−100mph in 8.7sec
157mph limited top speed
We're going to have a whole different arguement after the next issue of Evo comes out
24 November 2006, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyh
Type 25 Stats
We're going to have a whole different argument after the next issue of Evo comes out
We're going to have a whole different argument after the next issue of Evo comes out
So they do another review on the Litchfield ??
25 November 2006, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Tidgy
no matter how they tried it wouldn't oversteer/understeeer just went round the corner, and they claim that is bad?? shame its the fastest way round a corner.
A
25 November 2006, 05:26 PM
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Says who? You?
Since the Type-25 is far better than any other scoob what does that say about the rest... And like most of the owners on here Litchfield attempted to make the fastest car but left handling, finesse, styling and interior long behind....[/quote]
Since the Type-25 is far better than any other scoob what does that say about the rest... And like most of the owners on here Litchfield attempted to make the fastest car but left handling, finesse, styling and interior long behind....[/quote]
25 November 2006, 05:44 PM
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strikes me that they used to worship scoobs and Evos in equal measure, neither have massively moved on in between versions, yet they still rate the Evo but not the scoob
it's important to remember 2 things:
1.) It got into the list in the first place
2.) They are looking at EVOness, ie the ability to help you to feel as if you are part of the driving this is not necessarily how fast it can go in straighs or around a corner.
Litchfield summed it up perfectly when he reminisced over his recent drive in an Elise, what I think he was referring to was the purity of driving such a car.
I know I can drive my car fast, it would be fun yes, but would it be a true challenge? Would I get out of the car with adrenaline pumping? maybe
..but I know would for sure if trying to perform the same antics in an Elise
TBH it's like a lot of Japanese 'things' they take a Western concept and continue to develop and develop until it is perfectly capable of doing what it is supposed to do but at the same time losing the quirkiness and individuality.
it's important to remember 2 things:
1.) It got into the list in the first place
2.) They are looking at EVOness, ie the ability to help you to feel as if you are part of the driving this is not necessarily how fast it can go in straighs or around a corner.
Litchfield summed it up perfectly when he reminisced over his recent drive in an Elise, what I think he was referring to was the purity of driving such a car.
I know I can drive my car fast, it would be fun yes, but would it be a true challenge? Would I get out of the car with adrenaline pumping? maybe
..but I know would for sure if trying to perform the same antics in an Elise
TBH it's like a lot of Japanese 'things' they take a Western concept and continue to develop and develop until it is perfectly capable of doing what it is supposed to do but at the same time losing the quirkiness and individuality.
