EVO car of the year - Is the Type 25 that bad?
25 November 2006, 05:57 PM
#31
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Jeez guys.. the eCOTy is all about "EVOness" as they put it.
It's not about brute power and massive grip which the T25 has in abundance. If that was what the eCOTy was about im sure £ for £ it would have won
If you read the article - it actually says that (and they compare the T25 to the Misto EVO in the particular section) you'd get from A-B quicker in the Type 25, but wouldn't feel as involved as you would in the Evo.
All of which is fair enough to me.
They used to love Scoobys... couldn't get enough of the RB5 and P1 WR.. but since then only the spec C has tickled their fancy when it comes to drivability and involvement.
Light and vague steering as they put it isn't "EVOness" in their minds. The grunt and grip dont make up for it.
We need to accept that our cars are quick A-B cars... but seriously guys - go and test a caterham or an elise before moaning - our cars arent about finese anymore -and thats what Evo magazine is all about.
Jza
It's not about brute power and massive grip which the T25 has in abundance. If that was what the eCOTy was about im sure £ for £ it would have won
If you read the article - it actually says that (and they compare the T25 to the Misto EVO in the particular section) you'd get from A-B quicker in the Type 25, but wouldn't feel as involved as you would in the Evo.
All of which is fair enough to me.
They used to love Scoobys... couldn't get enough of the RB5 and P1 WR.. but since then only the spec C has tickled their fancy when it comes to drivability and involvement.
Light and vague steering as they put it isn't "EVOness" in their minds. The grunt and grip dont make up for it.
We need to accept that our cars are quick A-B cars... but seriously guys - go and test a caterham or an elise before moaning - our cars arent about finese anymore -and thats what Evo magazine is all about.
Jza
25 November 2006, 07:35 PM
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But if you want to order the T25 with added "EVOness", you can. I think EVO magazine were just not pushing the car hard enough!
Originally Posted by Jza
Jeez guys.. the eCOTy is all about "EVOness" as they put it.
It's not about brute power and massive grip which the T25 has in abundance. If that was what the eCOTy was about im sure £ for £ it would have won
If you read the article - it actually says that (and they compare the T25 to the Misto EVO in the particular section) you'd get from A-B quicker in the Type 25, but wouldn't feel as involved as you would in the Evo.
All of which is fair enough to me.
They used to love Scoobys... couldn't get enough of the RB5 and P1 WR.. but since then only the spec C has tickled their fancy when it comes to drivability and involvement.
Light and vague steering as they put it isn't "EVOness" in their minds. The grunt and grip dont make up for it.
We need to accept that our cars are quick A-B cars... but seriously guys - go and test a caterham or an elise before moaning - our cars arent about finese anymore -and thats what Evo magazine is all about.
Jza
It's not about brute power and massive grip which the T25 has in abundance. If that was what the eCOTy was about im sure £ for £ it would have won
If you read the article - it actually says that (and they compare the T25 to the Misto EVO in the particular section) you'd get from A-B quicker in the Type 25, but wouldn't feel as involved as you would in the Evo.
All of which is fair enough to me.
They used to love Scoobys... couldn't get enough of the RB5 and P1 WR.. but since then only the spec C has tickled their fancy when it comes to drivability and involvement.
Light and vague steering as they put it isn't "EVOness" in their minds. The grunt and grip dont make up for it.
We need to accept that our cars are quick A-B cars... but seriously guys - go and test a caterham or an elise before moaning - our cars arent about finese anymore -and thats what Evo magazine is all about.
Jza
25 November 2006, 07:45 PM
#33
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I came across an article earlier in which Richard Meaden said:
It has all the elements of Evoness one could want: power, tons of grip, affordability and real street cred.
The car: A humble std UK STi!
Somewhere they have changed their mind about what constitutes "Evoness" I think!
It's hard to take the whole blurb about interaction, tactility etc seriously when the Porsche Cayman got slated for its lack of power (er, Porche Boxster anyone??) and was deemed inferior to a Su..... I can't even be bothered
I love the photography and the writing is generally of a high standard, but- like any car review- you have to take it with a pinch of salt and accept it's not a precise science!!
I suspect the real problem here is that the Type 25s limits are so high that it would be irresponsible to assess its on-edge handling on the road, so Evo missed out on some its handling repotoire.
Ns04
It has all the elements of Evoness one could want: power, tons of grip, affordability and real street cred.
The car: A humble std UK STi!
Somewhere they have changed their mind about what constitutes "Evoness" I think!
It's hard to take the whole blurb about interaction, tactility etc seriously when the Porsche Cayman got slated for its lack of power (er, Porche Boxster anyone??) and was deemed inferior to a Su..... I can't even be bothered
I love the photography and the writing is generally of a high standard, but- like any car review- you have to take it with a pinch of salt and accept it's not a precise science!!
I suspect the real problem here is that the Type 25s limits are so high that it would be irresponsible to assess its on-edge handling on the road, so Evo missed out on some its handling repotoire.
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 25 November 2006 at 08:10 PM.
25 November 2006, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
It's about being the best drivers car, not being the fastest. Something that a few people on this site simply don't understand. They never will either as the following posts will illustrate
25 November 2006, 11:33 PM
#35
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EVO MAG REVIEWS
QUOTE: maybe the EVO journalists are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I can see it now, 'do i have to drive that Impreza/Evo again?' 'can i take the Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari which all cost at least twice as much.
I have had Hot Car, followed by new name Performance Car and then new name EVO over some 1/3 century and I fully agree - for the first time in over 30 yrs, I decided to lapse my sub...............
Absolutely bl00dy fed up with 200mph £1/3rd million cars swanning around Italy or France - they have absolutely lost the plot - it happens to most folk as they become wealthy - they forget the 'average fella in the street' -
I dont begrudge them earning a lot of money from the launch of EVO, it was until fairly recently, simply the best. - Problem comes when they actually forget that those around them, which includes their readers cant actually afford the cars THEY now TAKE FOR GRANTED.........
Metcalfe will be running a 599 as his every day ride next year no doubt..
As for the near 50 pages of promoting shell fuel the other month, ...hmmm - things are not as they once were - not too keen on 'Mr McClaren's' views either!
I would much prefer to read about the Davids than the Goliaths - just how many more stupid powered Mercs can we take??!! - Now they have a production 4WD SUV with something like 600 bhp that will crash thro the 155mph limiter given the chance......
I sicerely hope some of the TVR staff set up their own '80s & 90s' TVR clones using alloy V8s, sub 1000kg and priced in the high £20k / low £30k - Even Noble has lost it now with cars spiralling up in cost.
Give us some good old Griffith character and grunt for low cost - I simply couldnt care that Bugatti are considering doing a 'tuned version' capable of approaching 300 mph - who the hell is interested in that??!!
Top speed of 120mph will do nicely - just give me loads of character, low price and savage acceleration..
I have had Hot Car, followed by new name Performance Car and then new name EVO over some 1/3 century and I fully agree - for the first time in over 30 yrs, I decided to lapse my sub...............
Absolutely bl00dy fed up with 200mph £1/3rd million cars swanning around Italy or France - they have absolutely lost the plot - it happens to most folk as they become wealthy - they forget the 'average fella in the street' -
I dont begrudge them earning a lot of money from the launch of EVO, it was until fairly recently, simply the best. - Problem comes when they actually forget that those around them, which includes their readers cant actually afford the cars THEY now TAKE FOR GRANTED.........
Metcalfe will be running a 599 as his every day ride next year no doubt..
As for the near 50 pages of promoting shell fuel the other month, ...hmmm - things are not as they once were - not too keen on 'Mr McClaren's' views either!
I would much prefer to read about the Davids than the Goliaths - just how many more stupid powered Mercs can we take??!! - Now they have a production 4WD SUV with something like 600 bhp that will crash thro the 155mph limiter given the chance......
I sicerely hope some of the TVR staff set up their own '80s & 90s' TVR clones using alloy V8s, sub 1000kg and priced in the high £20k / low £30k - Even Noble has lost it now with cars spiralling up in cost.
Give us some good old Griffith character and grunt for low cost - I simply couldnt care that Bugatti are considering doing a 'tuned version' capable of approaching 300 mph - who the hell is interested in that??!!
Top speed of 120mph will do nicely - just give me loads of character, low price and savage acceleration..
26 November 2006, 02:06 PM
#37
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Not had chance to read through this thread, but FWIW, I read the article after it had been mentioned on here in a different thread and TBH EVO didn't make sense to me..! 
Firstly the position of 9th was inconsistent with their comments, especially when you read the comments on the cars in higher positions (eg Caymen iirc).
The only thing I can think of is the price:fun, but this wasn't mentioned as a reason the final position..!
Firstly the position of 9th was inconsistent with their comments, especially when you read the comments on the cars in higher positions (eg Caymen iirc).
The only thing I can think of is the price:fun, but this wasn't mentioned as a reason the final position..!
26 November 2006, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GRIFF007
QUOTE: maybe the EVO journalists are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I can see it now, 'do i have to drive that Impreza/Evo again?' 'can i take the Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari which all cost at least twice as much.
I have had Hot Car, followed by new name Performance Car and then new name EVO over some 1/3 century and I fully agree - for the first time in over 30 yrs, I decided to lapse my sub...............
Absolutely bl00dy fed up with 200mph £1/3rd million cars swanning around Italy or France - they have absolutely lost the plot - it happens to most folk as they become wealthy - they forget the 'average fella in the street' -
I dont begrudge them earning a lot of money from the launch of EVO, it was until fairly recently, simply the best. - Problem comes when they actually forget that those around them, which includes their readers cant actually afford the cars THEY now TAKE FOR GRANTED.........
Metcalfe will be running a 599 as his every day ride next year no doubt..
As for the near 50 pages of promoting shell fuel the other month, ...hmmm - things are not as they once were - not too keen on 'Mr McClaren's' views either!
I would much prefer to read about the Davids than the Goliaths - just how many more stupid powered Mercs can we take??!! - Now they have a production 4WD SUV with something like 600 bhp that will crash thro the 155mph limiter given the chance......
I sicerely hope some of the TVR staff set up their own '80s & 90s' TVR clones using alloy V8s, sub 1000kg and priced in the high £20k / low £30k - Even Noble has lost it now with cars spiralling up in cost.
Give us some good old Griffith character and grunt for low cost - I simply couldnt care that Bugatti are considering doing a 'tuned version' capable of approaching 300 mph - who the hell is interested in that??!!
Top speed of 120mph will do nicely - just give me loads of character, low price and savage acceleration..
I have had Hot Car, followed by new name Performance Car and then new name EVO over some 1/3 century and I fully agree - for the first time in over 30 yrs, I decided to lapse my sub...............
Absolutely bl00dy fed up with 200mph £1/3rd million cars swanning around Italy or France - they have absolutely lost the plot - it happens to most folk as they become wealthy - they forget the 'average fella in the street' -
I dont begrudge them earning a lot of money from the launch of EVO, it was until fairly recently, simply the best. - Problem comes when they actually forget that those around them, which includes their readers cant actually afford the cars THEY now TAKE FOR GRANTED.........
Metcalfe will be running a 599 as his every day ride next year no doubt..
As for the near 50 pages of promoting shell fuel the other month, ...hmmm - things are not as they once were - not too keen on 'Mr McClaren's' views either!
I would much prefer to read about the Davids than the Goliaths - just how many more stupid powered Mercs can we take??!! - Now they have a production 4WD SUV with something like 600 bhp that will crash thro the 155mph limiter given the chance......
I sicerely hope some of the TVR staff set up their own '80s & 90s' TVR clones using alloy V8s, sub 1000kg and priced in the high £20k / low £30k - Even Noble has lost it now with cars spiralling up in cost.
Give us some good old Griffith character and grunt for low cost - I simply couldnt care that Bugatti are considering doing a 'tuned version' capable of approaching 300 mph - who the hell is interested in that??!!
Top speed of 120mph will do nicely - just give me loads of character, low price and savage acceleration..
Used to buy What Car and Autocar. Found they spent to much time on MPV's, superminis etc. There's clearly a big market for this kind of info, but I'm not in it ! Like Evo's concentration on performance cars, the stats at the back, tested times round s track etc.
Would however admit that I would lose interest if they contantly reviewed supercars and nothing else !
Andy Mc
26 November 2006, 03:09 PM
#40
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It's just a mag. If you don't agree with what they say, fine. I love my Scoob but if someone gave me a choice between spending 30 grand on a Subaru or 60 grand on a 911... that would take me all of one second to decide. The 911 every time.
I think maybe some people forget that these hotted up Scoobs and Evos, once they're optioned up they are not 'cheap' cars any more. Yet you're driving around in basically a dull Japanese saloon. You can't even say they're stealth any more like they used to be in the 90's. Everyone knows what they are, it's bloody obvious with the spoilers all over them.
I think Evo are right to pursue their own agenda. I've had plenty of fun in a Clio Williams that equals what I've done in my Scoob, just slower that's all. In fact I've had a great time thrashing an old 1.6 Scirocco around the back roads. My wife's Yaris T-Sport is a great little drive.Outright speed and grip is not everything.
I think maybe some people forget that these hotted up Scoobs and Evos, once they're optioned up they are not 'cheap' cars any more. Yet you're driving around in basically a dull Japanese saloon. You can't even say they're stealth any more like they used to be in the 90's. Everyone knows what they are, it's bloody obvious with the spoilers all over them.
I think Evo are right to pursue their own agenda. I've had plenty of fun in a Clio Williams that equals what I've done in my Scoob, just slower that's all. In fact I've had a great time thrashing an old 1.6 Scirocco around the back roads. My wife's Yaris T-Sport is a great little drive.Outright speed and grip is not everything.
26 November 2006, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat-Fink
Power and grip don't make a fun car.
There is a LOT of self-deceit implicit in all this "what a car is like on the edge of adhesion" and "handling finese" stuff. TBH you shouldn't be doing that on the road the vast majority of the time, certainly not in a car with limits as high as a Scooby and Evo.
The cold hard truth is that VERY few, if any of us, are talented enough to be assurred that we can recover a sliding car neatly and consistently enough for it to be a safe proposition on the road for any more than the odd moment. And before anyone tries to dispute that (cause everyone -particularly us blokes- think we're better than average) Just bare in mind that even professional rally drivers make a pigs ear of it occassionally.
What most of us want, is a car that is quick and secure at speeds -and within the style of driving- that constitutes everyday road use, and one that won't bite as soon as the limits of our talent/bravery kick in.
Advantage rice rocket.
Sure, they are better cars out there in terms of involvement and handling finese, but there are few drivers, and fewer situations, where these characteristics can be enjoyed safely.
Accessible point to point speed and all weather ability counts for the most in the real world IMHO.
Ns04
26 November 2006, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
Works for me
There is a LOT of self-deceit implicit in all this "what a car is like on the edge of adhesion" and "handling finese" stuff. TBH you shouldn't be doing that on the road the vast majority of the time, certainly not in a car with limits as high as a Scooby and Evo.
The cold hard truth is that VERY few, if any of us, are talented enough to be assurred that we can recover a sliding car neatly and consistently enough for it to be a safe proposition on the road for any more than the odd moment. And before anyone tries to dispute that (cause everyone -particularly us blokes- think we're better than average) Just bare in mind that even professional rally drivers make a pigs ear of it occassionally.
What most of us want, is a car that is quick and secure at speeds -and within the style of driving- that constitutes everyday road use, and one that won't bite as soon as the limits of our talent/bravery kick in.
Advantage rice rocket.
Sure, they are better cars out there in terms of involvement and handling finese, but there are few drivers, and fewer situations, where these characteristics can be enjoyed safely.
Accessible point to point speed and all weather ability counts for the most in the real world IMHO.
Ns04
There is a LOT of self-deceit implicit in all this "what a car is like on the edge of adhesion" and "handling finese" stuff. TBH you shouldn't be doing that on the road the vast majority of the time, certainly not in a car with limits as high as a Scooby and Evo.
The cold hard truth is that VERY few, if any of us, are talented enough to be assurred that we can recover a sliding car neatly and consistently enough for it to be a safe proposition on the road for any more than the odd moment. And before anyone tries to dispute that (cause everyone -particularly us blokes- think we're better than average) Just bare in mind that even professional rally drivers make a pigs ear of it occassionally.
What most of us want, is a car that is quick and secure at speeds -and within the style of driving- that constitutes everyday road use, and one that won't bite as soon as the limits of our talent/bravery kick in.
Advantage rice rocket.
Sure, they are better cars out there in terms of involvement and handling finese, but there are few drivers, and fewer situations, where these characteristics can be enjoyed safely.
Accessible point to point speed and all weather ability counts for the most in the real world IMHO.
Ns04
( "Advantage rice rocket" - I like it !
)Andy Mc
26 November 2006, 07:06 PM
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480bhp WR1 ... WTF have you had done to it?!!!
TX.
TX.
Originally Posted by Bucko
I drove the type 25 on saturday it is amazing,I have a WR1 with 480bhp and it is as quick as my car it corners like its on rails,I have driven an EVO340 and it is nowhere as good as the scooby,must agree with all the above comments.
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