Ian

iTrader: (10)

after a drive, some hard, some normal.

when i touch the tmic, it is very warm going to the hot side?

from what i have heard this is not normal

my car is a 99 sti

mods
3" turbo back full decat exhaust
k&n pannle filter
knock link
255 fuel pump

also looking into a remap, the apexi looks good, good place to have map and for the best price.

am from Cambridge.


thanks Ian

[Davey]

The impreza suffers from heat soak really badly.. Comes with the TMIC territory really. You could go for an I/C spray.

rooferman

iTrader: (6)

My 99 ecu can be ecuteked so not always a need for the apexi....depending how far you want to go??

Ian

iTrader: (10)

what is normally the ££ for the ecuteked and the apexi?

dont think it is heat soak, as it is hot as soon as i open the bonnet after stopping

Ian

iTrader: (10)

bump

rigga

iTrader: (4)

roughly £900for both fitted and mapped,unless you can source a second hand unit for cheaper than new,and then get it custom mapped to your spec

its a combination of heat soak,and the by product of a turbo working thats causing the intercooler to get very hot..... as the turbo boosts great heat is generated,this is passed onto the intercooler as the hot air travels thr.ough,the i/c tries to get rid of this heat,but can only do so much with the air flow through the bonnet scoop to cool it.... hence intercooler spray kits and the need to go front mount as there is a greater ammount of cold air hitting the intercooler there,plus its out of the way of the heat generated by the engine itself,lagging exhaust pipes can help to reduce engine bay temps and that can help the intercooler stay just that bit cooler

Ian

iTrader: (10)

got a heat wrapted down pipe and still some of the heat shield on the turbo.

my friends v2 sti, tmic stays ALOT cooler than mine after a good run in both cars

rigga

iTrader: (4)

i have a digital temp probe in the samco pipe between the i/c and throttle body to measure inlet temps,and can see the affect of engine temps and heat soak when stationary on the charge temp...... worth doing as it can really shoot up in hot conditions and the ammount of work the engine is doing...v2 sti and your 99sti may well be generating differing temps due to turbo applications....are the general specs the same? boost generated etc? i can see 35 degrees on the temp read out which is not the far above ambient at the moment,and the i/c body does feel hot,but the intercooler is doing a good job of cooling the charge temp into the engine.....turn the car off and leave it for say an hour or so and return,and the temp guage reads above 65 degrees due to the heat soak from the hot engine. would have thought your i/c would have been bigger and therfore better at cooling than your mates v2 item though

Ian

iTrader: (10)

see what you mean, his is cold to the touch and mine is hot, after the same sort of run

rigga

iTrader: (4)

would be of interest for you to measure the inlet charge temp to see actualy how hot it is.... generally anywhere approaching 50 degrees you should back off otherwise detonation may well happen..... there are a few reccomended temp probes ive seen on here,but i have a simple maplins item,samples every second after a little wiring mod,not backlit as it runs off an aa battery which lasts for a year before needing changing,but as its generally much cooler after dark its not an issue.... £14 delivered to your door,cant fault it really

rigga

iTrader: (4)

also consider maximising the air flow through your bonnet scoop and through the intercooler by fitting a tilt kit to the i/c to raise the rear,and a splitter to the scoop..... diverts more air evenly onto the i/c so works more efficiently

Ian

iTrader: (10)

can the tmic get blocked at all?

rigga

iTrader: (4)

can do....what are the condition of the fins? if a lot are bent which happens then the airflow through will be much less

Ian

iTrader: (10)

most of the fins are all good.

looked through the bonnet vent and the rubber seals onto the tmic fine

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The guages I use stops reading at 69.9 DEG C. (Mike Rainbird RB Motorsport)
On an STi 3 Wagon with O/E TMIC, turbo, injectors and ECU but 335 plus bhp and 333 plus ft/lbs the induction temperature measured at the TMIC outlet starts to rise slowly with only.2 bar of boost. At max boost of 1.3 bar it is going up pretty quickly to danger levels. I consider that over 55 C is time to get back onto 0 boost or vacum unless I am having a very quick max speed run at which time I will exceed 69.9C.
I made a note of temps last Thursday when OAT was 27C.
Engine cold start and around town for 2mls TB temp = 36C. All in 30mph limit and all in semi conjeted town.
Shutdown for 20 mins = 55C
After 2ml return journey in 30 mph limit = 39C
1ml in 40mph limit = 35C
3mls '70mph = 32C.
Sprint from roundabout @ constant .5 bar for 600 meters = 42C
Stop 1 min and set off 0-80mph at roundabout = 60C.
Negotiate roundabout and accelerate to 100mph and next roundabout =65C. then drive normally for 2-3 mins and shut down at 49C. after a coup[le of mins = 51C and rising.

If I was to do a dash to top speed from the cruise on a cooler day or in the night then 69.9 DEG C would be exceeded by 140 mph and temps still climbing as car hurtles to an INDICATED 170mph at close to the red line of 7.8K which I guess is about 158 mph. Back off immediately.

These temperature observations are frightening and I think Rigga summed it up well in a PM when he said "I keep an eye on my induction temperature and drive accordingly".
My own theory is that so many Scoobies blow up because the owners are running top mount intercoolers with prolonged periods of wide open throttle chasing motorbikes, Evo's, Porsches whatever and the engine just cannot function satisfactorily with prolonged high induction temperatures.

I will ask Andre Murray to post some photographs on here and next time I have a passenger in the car and my digital camera I will take some further high temperature photographs.

Towards the end of last week it was my intention to run my WRX Wagon (over 400 bhp) which has a Hybrid front mount intercooler (I sell these Classic and New Age) to get comparative results under similar running conditions but OAT has been 10 degrees less so I cannot get representative results. When I am able to repeat the running conditions at similar OATs I will report the results but the FMIC has got to be the way to go. Even with an uprated top mount the results are far from satisfactory.
The STi 3 and 4 TMICs have good flow characteristics but do not cool as well as the most recent intercoolers but as reported by Rigga / JGM the later intercoolers have bigger pressure drop / poorer flow which means the engine cannot run as much ignition advance.

I would urge anybody that drives their car hard to fit an induction temperature guage as it may save them an engine and a lot of expense. Similarly, if you are not convinced you need an FMIC, fit a guage and make an informed assessment.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Martin/Rigga : Would it be possible for you to run your car at a constant boost figure, starting at say .2 or .3 bar for at least half a minute and report the point at which the temps start to gently rise???

rigga

iTrader: (4)

Harvey,
Had an attempt at driving the car at a constant bost level today,but found it very difficult to hold a certain level,either increased the boost or more often than not it just fell away to zero...had a few tries and either its a club right foot thats at fault or just the big nut behind the wheel ....anyway decided to try a ru through the gears down my local dual carriagway..... temp as i joined from the island was 24 degrees and i floored the throttle..... the temp started to rise rapidly and before long was in the low 40's so backed off.... then decided to cruise off boost at 80 till the temp stabalised,then took her over the ton and the temps again shot up,i guess due to the scoop not working as well at higher speeds...... not what you were after,but interesting all the same







( the above was made up as i would never drive like that on the road )

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I am not convinced that the scoop does not work pretty well, even on Classics. I pit bits of wool about 6" long all over the bonnet and base and sides of the windscreen to observe air flow. The scoop is in a low pressure area but will still be getting a fair bit of flow.
I think the problem is that the TMIC core is not big enough for the heat generated by the turbo compressor above a certain boost level.

crusher

Harvey,
will your fmic fit a new age sti with aircon?...

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Yes I have FMICs for New Age with air con.
e-mail me for info. harveysmith1@btopenworld.com

Eprom

Harvey, have you performed any measurements with an intercooler splitter and tilt kit installed, its my understanding that the front of the intercooler does not receive as much airflow as the rear, I have a MY99 and mine stays cool to the touch after a hard thrash, before I installed this, the intercooler used to be fairly warm.
My cars not heavily modified though.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I did some experiments on TMIC splitters over three years ago and was interested in making them but I could not identify signifigant, quantifiable benefits.
Any benefits from a splitter will vary from model to model I would expect but while I was dead against a FMIC and wanted to stick with an improved TMIC, I eventually came to the conclusion that TMICs were not capable of providing cool induction charge air to even a lightly modified Subaru.

scoobie_eccosse

how much is it for a front intercooler to be fitted and is it easy to do this mod? will ma scoobie run better and how much better its amy94 wrx sti jap import

harvey

iTrader: (48)

You will have lower induction temperatures with a good FMIC and this will make the car safer, crisper off the mark and it will develop more power.
Some of the cheap kits are a pain to fit, needing pipes cut and major surgery. however there are good quality cheap kits available if you choose the right one. You need to be reasonably competant to fit one yourself and have a good range of tools including drill, jig saw etc.

I don't want to fall foul of the moderators but if you e-mail me, I can give you details on fitting and prices.