Dippy

Last week I lost control in the wet.
The scoob's been written off.
I was VERY lucky to get away with just minor surgery. I'm glad that no-one else was involved. From what I remember (which isn't much), I was not really going that fast. However I clearly must have underestimated how wet it was and drove beyond my abilities.

I'm not going to get a new car for a few months so that I can have a serious think about what I buy. I would appreciate some advice from you (especially those who have children) to help me decide.

I really liked the Impreza and want another one. But there's no doubt that it encouraged my to drive fast. If I get another one then I WILL be more careful. But if I get a slower car then I WILL be safer. But I'll be miserable because the car is slow.

My wife's due to have our first child in a few weeks. When she has been a passenger I have driven slowly and carefully. I would have been even slower if I had the baby in the back. But when I'm on my own...

Should I deny myself the enjoyment of driving and get a slow car, but knowing that I'm less likely to kill myself?

Should I trust myself to get another scoob and me more careful?

What would you do in my place?

Fosters

first off, that's sad news about you and the scoob!

I'm probably going to get flamed here, but I think the choice of car is irrelevant - it's down to your attitude behind the wheel.

some might argue that a performance car is the safer car to be on the road in (brakes, etc).

munna

did you have any brakages??...of the bone kind?....it must have been quit an impact to have written the Scoob off??...how can you say you will be safer when you drive a slower car??....I have a baby daughter...you ar very right not to take any risk's when there is another life or live's at risk....Accident's happen.....they are there for a reason....buy you're self some piece of mind....Get back into the driving seat of an Impreza....never have any regret's..remember the Scoob Save you're life...any lesser car and you may not have been around to see the birth of you're child...good luck with the birth....
PS sorry to sound prophetic....
PPS...go and buy another Scoob Turbo....you know you want to??!!

cwal1

Get yourself booked on some driving courses and learn how to drive smoothly, safely and quickly. Having done this you'll be able to identify your limits and stay within them no matter what car you buy.

CW.

suba

you can still get the subaru, but i would suggest some advance driving course (maybe in the wet AND doing it sideways?)

just take it eazi and dont be "right foot" happy! else you can opt for the impreza GL :-)

Bajie

First of all I'm glad only the car was written off and your wife and child still have you.
Number two is on the way for me and I find myself facing the same questions.
Basically, I never drive my car slowly. Its almost impossible ... the noises are too nice.
I know my car will soon go. I've taken it as far as I can and want a change.
My money was on a Skyline R34 or Evo VI Makkinen. But it puts me in the same always speeding predicament. And thats before I step on the modification trail again...
Having seen the new BMW M3, and thinking it is a really nice [drop dead gorgeous] car.
Maybe this will be the way I go, I really don't know.
Buy another scoob but you won't drive it slowly ... will you!

Josh L

Glad you're OK (ish).

I'm sure that some will disagree, but I don't beleive that having a slower car necessarily means driving slower, just closer to the car's limits. Like you, I do tend to drive the Impreza quicker when I'm on my own, but don't we all?

I would agree with CW, taking a course to improve your skills will help whatever you drive. Make a decision after the course.

All the best for a speedy recovery (no pun intended!)

Josh

TonyC-Evo Lurker

Buy the scoob (or similar ) again, and have a driving course. The Don Palmer one is excellent. It really raises your awareness of the car and what to expect from it.

I've been racing RWD cars for several years but I found the course fantastic for learning how the AWD cars work. Somethings I would never have believed in a million years can be done in them.

Any car is dangerours, be it slow or fast. All you need is the right 'mind-set' to avoid trouble.
TonyC

Bajie

Thinking about your original question of a possible alternative vehicle, perhaps an Accord Type R is worth investigating.
The car is understated, can be driven totally sedately below 4000rpm but turns into Mr Hyde when you head toward the rev limiter.
I am, of course, assuming you still want a car which can give you "the smile factor" when you want it.
Make sure you get a black one though.

dholmes

As several others have said, Don Palmer's "The Wetter the Better" course is second to none, when it comes to leaning your limits and the cars limits in wet weather conditions. I'm not saying this would have stopped your accident, because I don't know the circumstances, but it really improved my wet weather driving.

If you don't feel safe with the power of the Impreza ( or similar car), then I would suggest a Forester Turbo S. A more practical car with enough grunt for safe over taking, but not anywhere near super car perforance.

Ro

Sorry to hear that Dippy, it's good to know that scooby saved you.
dholmes - do you have details of that course, I would also like to consider taking it.

Ro

robski

Maybe you should consider the sport then, Ive not driven one, but they are supposed to be as good on handling.

John F can you comment?

robski

dholmes

Ro,

Try

RBT2

Sorry to hear about your accident, I had a similar one myself about four years ago (in a CRX) but got away without any injuries. It shakes your confidence BIG time.

Get back in a car again ASAP though, to get some confidence back as early as you can. I didn't. Big mistake IMHO.

If you think you're likely to go a bit wild again with a Scooby Turbo, why not consider something a bit slower but nearly as safe (with 4WD) and go for a Sport?

Yeah, I know it's kind of looked-down on, but you still get the benefits of the 4WD, but can't go quite so fast even if you wanted to. A new bonnet and spoilers and practically nobody would know the difference anyway (except by a detailed look from one of the crowd here).

They're also a lot cheaper to buy and run.

You could then spend the rest of the cash on regular Go-Karting sessions. It's a real stress reliever and a great way to exercise any of your speeding tendencies and get them out of your system.

Good way to keep your licence too!

Ross.

nickw

Difficult Question.

Fast cars can be safe, slow cars can be dangerous and vice versa. I think it depends where you live, how you drive etc.

Sure a scoob may encourage you to go faster but then again it has higher limits. Are you saying that had you been in a 1.6 Focus then the accident would not have happened ?

I think that you have to take an overall view - think of some other accident situations. What about if you have to brake or suddenly take avoiding action in the wet ? What if you are about to be rammed up the backside by a HGV that can't stop and need some acceleration to get out of the way ?

I'm a firm beleiver in active safety through experience. My father was involved in a serious accident which he was lucky to escape with minor injuries - basically he was driving a new E-Class Merc along a dual carriageway early in the morning. Cruise control on, doing about 60 in a straight line. Suddenly the car just spun multiple times for no apparent reason, bouncing between the central reservation and the roadside armco for a while. Luckily no one else was involved, the Merc was a mess but he was OK. Seems as though some black ice fooled the traction control which started messing about with brakes/power etc and unbalanced the car. Once something that big goes you ain't getting it back ! Interestingly enough when the car was recovered the Merc garage had 6 (yes six!) other E-classes in that the same thing had happened to over the last few days.

So, great car for passive safety, built like a tank. I do suspect however that in, for example, a scooby it would not have happened in the first place.

What about (flame suit on) an Audi A4/A6 quattro ? Good active and passive safety ?

Nick

GranTurismo

Hello,

Sorry to hear the news but glad your OK,

Dont give up on fast cars becuase of this, just learn some self restrait and find your abillities. During the petrol crisis I had to get lifts from a colleague. Now he drives a 1.8 Diesel toyota Carrina, and I was terrified most of the time!! becasue he drove too close, did not look ahaead far enough and held the stering whele with one hand (the wrong way round!)

Follow the advice of the other posts, enjoy you scooby and live longer.

johnfelstead

A few comments, firstly on the Impreza Sport. This car is without doubt one of the most underated cars on the road. It does only have 125BHP but it scores really well on torque with 185Lb/ft, on top of this it is 100Kg lighter than a turbo, this makes it one hell of a quick cross country car. It has no anti roll bars, this gives it much higher mechanical grip than a turbo in wet conditions although it does roll in the dry, something you get used to very quickly.

I think for the average driver the Sport is a safer car, certainly in wet conditions.

A well driven sport is a match for a 22B or STi5 in real world conditions accross country, it will loose out on acceleration but can compensate for that by keeping the momentum going. This statement is not bull**** because i drive a Sport, ask anyone who has seen my car on the road and they will agree i am sure.

Next, driving safely is all about your mental attitude, driving slowly is less safe than going at a good pace for the simple reason that you are alert to your suroundings. I am not talking about driving the car at its limits everywhere, just making the drive interesting but within the safe limits of yourself and your car.

If you are driving diferently when you have your family in the car then i have to question your driving technique and your mental aproach. Your family needs you in one piece whether they are with you at the time or not and other road users also deserve the respect you would give your family if they were with you.

I drive no diferently with or without passengers, which is pretty quickly but well within the car and road limits.

I learnt a great deal from attending Don Palmers "wetter the better" course at MIRA. I know what he taught me stopped me writting off my Impreza shortly afterwards. I now enjoy wet weather driving because i understand more about what is going on and how to deal with unexpected events.

<B>TYRES ARE EVERYTHING</B>. Save your money on the engine and suspension upgrades if you use the car on the road and spend it on some top quality tyres if you have to make a choice on a limited budget.

The extra £50 per tyre you may spend getting Bridgestone SO2 PP for example is well worth it if you want to be as safe as posible on the road, especially in the wet.

Replace your tyres when they are getting to the 3mm level, dont wait till you get to 1.5mm legal limit If wet weather driving safety is important to you. You will be able to sell these on to the track day boys to help compensate for the earlier replacement cost.

Finally, these things happen, the only thing you can do is try and learn from them and seak to improve your skills. It's not really the car that is the issue, its your mental aproach and training/ability.

N/A

Well since you will be needing more room now also you could look into the RSK B4. I know its not a WRX but its still a very nice car. The most dangerous thing on the roads in the US usually the other drivers so no matter how cautious you become you can't compensate for other peoples stupidity. Its good to hear that you are OK and your family wasn't in the car with you. Aren't there still wet weather driving courses offered in the UK? You might want to check out one of them and maybe take in another regular driving course. It can't hurt.

simes

Sorry to hear of your accident, glad you are ok.

You could thinl about buying a nice secondhand VW Golf or some such for daily life AND a Caterham or Westie and do track days...

Simon

Bright Kar

I have little to do add to the sensible advice already posted - its down to your ATTITUDE.

I have a young child and that really shouldnt effect my driving style although it does. I do drive worse when I'm alone. I sometimes feel that I ought to drive something else (more sedate) but the truth it doesnt really make bunch difference what I drive.

I dont have a commendable attitude but I am slowly getting better. Dont seem to have destroyed a car for a several years (yet alone dent). I sometimes get home and realise I'd been a ******** behind the wheel and have a guilty conscience - makes me drive better for a while.

In fact, I must say I havent had any frights in the Scoob - even in the wet.

Get some therapy and sort out your attitude on the road. If it works give me the details

bkar

(PS been p*ssing around a bit in the wet to see what happens things go bad but all I seem to be getting is fairly controllable slides. I thought the back was supposed to go out, or do you have to be brutal ? The speeds involved during the slides are too high for anything heavy - even on huge empty roundabouts)



[This message has been edited by Bright Kar (edited 25 September 2000).]

Hoppy

Dippy, glad to hear you're okay (ish) and looking to live and learn.

Lots of good advice above. I'm a great believer in 'active' safety and a Scoob has to be one of the very best for that so go get another one!

But even the best will bite you if you abuse it. Take one of those driving courses. Don Palmer's thing sounds ideal - I'll book me one, too. I've had a couple of 'advanced driving' sessions and I always come away with a couple of useful tips. But most helpful of all is the satisfaction that can be enjoyed by driving a car really well, even if slowly. You know, observation, smooth gear changing and braking, keeping your distance, and generally reading the road.

Someone suggested going kart racing for kicks, and I wouldn't disagree there. But I've taken to track days for my adrenaline relief, and it works! I'm a better driver on the road for it, and who needs to show off when you've just managed to take Craner Curves flat right down to the Old Hairpin? That's a buzz that lasts for weeks!

Hoppy

psyg

Dippy,

What about TWO cars:
a scoob for the reason you bought your first one;
and a practical, cheap, familly-car for all the moments you really don't drive a car...

For me this is working;
scoob sometimes makes me too "sharp", always want to be quick/first, etc.
our "kangoo" (55 BHP) slows me down, listen to the radio/music, relaxed way of moving...

grt Geert

Dippy

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

Having had a good look at the crash site I'm amazed that it happened. I think I was unlucky and hit some standing water. But I've learnt my lesson - in future I shall respect wet conditions no matter what I'm driving. I think that a wet driving course has also got to be on the agenda.

John has a good point - I should be able to drive the same (competently and safely) whether I'm on my own or with passengers. However that is not true for me and I'm sure its not true for many people. In truth it is actually part of the human psyche to seek risk and this is what we need to control.

Anyway, for the past few days I've been driving a 10 year old Nissan Sunny 1.6 (£950) and I've realised that even when I drive it slowly, I feel a lot less safe in it than the Scooby. I've also been watching other people driving small cheap cars (e.g. Micras) at speeds that I wouldn't consider safe. This seems to prove a point that many have made.

Attitude is indeed everything, and I know that mine has already changed. When I saw my car again I realised how lucky I was. However I know that my accident was exactly that, and I firmly believe that it would not happen again. I am still very impressed by the Scoob's handling and consequently believe that despite my accident it was a safe car to drive.

So as to my question, well I won't actually decide until after the baby is born as that might change my view (but probably not).

I'm going to wait until the "New Age Impreza" is officially released and check it out. From what I've read it is significantly improved on the mechanical side, even if it is ugly. And unless the price of a new MY00 is dropped by a significant amount, I think that its the MY01 or something else entirely.

The only other car on my list is a BMW 330i Touring - a bit more expensive but it looks like a good car. Trouble is I don't really see myself as a BMW driver. The Scoob was a really good car, so maybe the new Subaru Corolla Turbo will be even better...