Which to buy - Evo6 or STI 5?
13 September 2000, 06:22 PM
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Guys,
I realise a similar post has already been made today, but I am suffering a real dilemma and need some help..
I have been deliberating over whether to buy a nearly new Evo 6 or a new STI 5. Performance wise I realise that there's little in it, but what I'd like to know is which I will find the most rewarding to own in the long run? I have heard that the Evo is a far more expensive beast to own and that fuel consumption is apalling - is this really true and is the STI really much better? I will have some fun in my car, but I don't expect to thrash it all the time, so what sort of fuel consumption can I expect if I drive sensibly with the occasional spurt on the pedal?
I have read problems on the STI with understear, I don't like the sound of that, surely the Evo's handling is far better and more neutral due to the AYC? What can I expect the cars to be like on the motorway at say eighty - what rev range will I be looking at, at say 80 mph?
Also, what sort of depreciation can I expect? Surely the Evo will keep it's value more as it is far rarer? I have read that used values are quite low for the Impreza due to the flood of grey cars and the imminant release of the new shape - is this the case?
Finally how does build quality and reliability compare on the two cars, is it true that the Evo is bigger inside?
Sorry for all the questions, but it seems that you guys seem to know what you're talking about..
Cheers,
Martin Stirling.
I realise a similar post has already been made today, but I am suffering a real dilemma and need some help..
I have been deliberating over whether to buy a nearly new Evo 6 or a new STI 5. Performance wise I realise that there's little in it, but what I'd like to know is which I will find the most rewarding to own in the long run? I have heard that the Evo is a far more expensive beast to own and that fuel consumption is apalling - is this really true and is the STI really much better? I will have some fun in my car, but I don't expect to thrash it all the time, so what sort of fuel consumption can I expect if I drive sensibly with the occasional spurt on the pedal?
I have read problems on the STI with understear, I don't like the sound of that, surely the Evo's handling is far better and more neutral due to the AYC? What can I expect the cars to be like on the motorway at say eighty - what rev range will I be looking at, at say 80 mph?
Also, what sort of depreciation can I expect? Surely the Evo will keep it's value more as it is far rarer? I have read that used values are quite low for the Impreza due to the flood of grey cars and the imminant release of the new shape - is this the case?
Finally how does build quality and reliability compare on the two cars, is it true that the Evo is bigger inside?
Sorry for all the questions, but it seems that you guys seem to know what you're talking about..
Cheers,
Martin Stirling.
13 September 2000, 06:41 PM
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Mitsubishi are meant to be in the process of putting together an approved Grey Import second hand car section in the UK. It might be worth looking into when this comes into effect.
Also The Evo VII is scheduled (unless this has changed) to come out in November this year (according to Autocar - yes I know Autocar are unreliable at times but that's what it says for UK spec EVO VII). Anyway the release of the Evo VII might drop the price of the Evo VI.
Just a few thoughts.
Hope this helps.
13 September 2000, 11:29 PM
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hmm, the other thread seems to be full of subjective comments by people who haven't driven both cars...
can't comment on the evo 6 - but I tested both evo 5 and sti before buying the sti 5 ,4 door.
the cars characters are very different - I found the evo a bit soul-less and the impreza engine sounds and feels so much more characterful.
On build quality - what you hear varies from country to country - but accross the globe, subaru have an excellent name for reliability and toughness. Mitsubishi can't lay claim to such a good reputation worldwide.
I found the interior to be a tad 'tacky' on the evo - especially the silly blue dials etc. - both cars come from humble origins so don't expect plush interiors or good fitment...
The EVO does come with decent wheels and brakes as standard + real recaros (though the sti seats are extremely good anyway) - so you wouldn't have to add these afterwards - may help to offset the additional cost of the evo. Also - some nice touches like light alloy wings (not just the bonnet)
What swung it for me in the end was the less harsh ride in the sti and less ugly spoiler/body addenda (though both are not exactly subtle)
The Tommi Makinen edition evo 6 (not all of them have the silly stickers on them)has lower,more compliant suspension and a better interior - if you can afford it - that is the one to have.
Of the stis - I prefer the 4 door - for more sensible gearing and ABS brakes - and (of course) 4 doors!
you mention motorways - if you do a lot of motorway miles - then neither car is suitable - sorry but its a fact that these cars are not economical/comfortable/quiet enough for long motorway hauls on a regular basis - better to buy a one year old rep car for motorways and save your pennies for a loony car to keep in the garage for weekends.
hope this helps you decide - you MUST drive both cars first - but, either way, you will end up buying a piece of motoring history and won't be disappointed.
Paul W
can't comment on the evo 6 - but I tested both evo 5 and sti before buying the sti 5 ,4 door.
the cars characters are very different - I found the evo a bit soul-less and the impreza engine sounds and feels so much more characterful.
On build quality - what you hear varies from country to country - but accross the globe, subaru have an excellent name for reliability and toughness. Mitsubishi can't lay claim to such a good reputation worldwide.
I found the interior to be a tad 'tacky' on the evo - especially the silly blue dials etc. - both cars come from humble origins so don't expect plush interiors or good fitment...
The EVO does come with decent wheels and brakes as standard + real recaros (though the sti seats are extremely good anyway) - so you wouldn't have to add these afterwards - may help to offset the additional cost of the evo. Also - some nice touches like light alloy wings (not just the bonnet)
What swung it for me in the end was the less harsh ride in the sti and less ugly spoiler/body addenda (though both are not exactly subtle)
The Tommi Makinen edition evo 6 (not all of them have the silly stickers on them)has lower,more compliant suspension and a better interior - if you can afford it - that is the one to have.
Of the stis - I prefer the 4 door - for more sensible gearing and ABS brakes - and (of course) 4 doors!
you mention motorways - if you do a lot of motorway miles - then neither car is suitable - sorry but its a fact that these cars are not economical/comfortable/quiet enough for long motorway hauls on a regular basis - better to buy a one year old rep car for motorways and save your pennies for a loony car to keep in the garage for weekends.
hope this helps you decide - you MUST drive both cars first - but, either way, you will end up buying a piece of motoring history and won't be disappointed.
Paul W
14 September 2000, 12:22 AM
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Guys,
cheers for your replies thus far. Does anyone actaully know anything about general running costs and fuel consumption first hand? I know drivability of both cars is a personal thing, but wanted to know what sort of mpg and servicing costs I can expect on both cars. Also is it wise buying either now that the new shapes are imminent? There seem to be two trains of thought - some say that 'cos the new shapes are so ugly it has made the last model more desirable, others say that prices will plummet when VII's come out. Any opinions?
Cheers,
Martin.
(Thanks for the comment Bananaman, quite hilarious I must say..)
cheers for your replies thus far. Does anyone actaully know anything about general running costs and fuel consumption first hand? I know drivability of both cars is a personal thing, but wanted to know what sort of mpg and servicing costs I can expect on both cars. Also is it wise buying either now that the new shapes are imminent? There seem to be two trains of thought - some say that 'cos the new shapes are so ugly it has made the last model more desirable, others say that prices will plummet when VII's come out. Any opinions?
Cheers,
Martin.
(Thanks for the comment Bananaman, quite hilarious I must say..)
14 September 2000, 12:41 AM
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Martin,
Had UK car, drove EVO and STi - decided I couldn't live with an EVO for everyday use.
I looked at most factors, performance, driveability, running costs etc etc. Decided the Sti was better for me on everything except handling and brakes and this was marginal - now it is as good if not better.
It would probably be best if you drove them both - then think - you may hate either or both..
Had UK car, drove EVO and STi - decided I couldn't live with an EVO for everyday use.
I looked at most factors, performance, driveability, running costs etc etc. Decided the Sti was better for me on everything except handling and brakes and this was marginal - now it is as good if not better.
It would probably be best if you drove them both - then think - you may hate either or both..
14 September 2000, 12:49 AM
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Craig,
what was it about the EVO that you couldn't live with?
I have driven both cars and to me the Evo feels slightly more sure footed, but there isn't much in it. I like the look of both - the Evo more aggresive, but the STI is sleeker. It's just the sensible factors that will decide it for me ultimately as I won't have another car. Saying that I train it to work so it will only be a weekend and evening car with the occasional motorway journey..
Martin.
what was it about the EVO that you couldn't live with?
I have driven both cars and to me the Evo feels slightly more sure footed, but there isn't much in it. I like the look of both - the Evo more aggresive, but the STI is sleeker. It's just the sensible factors that will decide it for me ultimately as I won't have another car. Saying that I train it to work so it will only be a weekend and evening car with the occasional motorway journey..
Martin.
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14 September 2000, 12:51 AM
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I used to have a 4 door Sti V, a car that I was very much in love with, had it no cost me nearly 10K in depreciation in less than a year.
I am currently awaiting the delivery of a EVO VI Tommi Mak, and have been lent a standard GSR in the meantime.
How do they compare:
Straight out acceleration wise the EVO does feel slightly quicker than the Sti, but when in comes to the handling the EVO feels far more solid, whereas the Sti seemed to have too much roll. You can throw the EVO about in a way that you wouldn't imagine, but I was always very wary of the Scoob. I can understand that the ride in the EVO is too firm for some, the wife is not keen at all.
I must admit the sound is disappointing in the EVO, whereas the Scooby was brilliant!
Interior is much of a muchness. Both have their nice touches, but obviously these cars are not built for refinment. I like the Alcantara lining in the Sti, and think I prefer the seats over the EVO Recaros, and love the huge central rev guage redlining at over 8,000! With the EVO I like the Climate control system.
I seem to be always in and out of Petrol stations in the EVO (though not at the moment!!!), but I think that is due to a smaller tank rather than more consumption. The last times I have filled it up I have put in roughly 30 litres and gotten about 140 miles from that.
Any way I could go on for ages about these cars. email me if you want any further info or as I live in Caversham if you want to look over the EVO I have no problem in meeting up.
Oh by the way cost of car... I shouldn't be saying this but I am getting my Tommi Mak for 23.5K brand new!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old S300 WRX
Actually my email has changed to sryan@alphablox.com. How do I change it in the profiles bit?
[This message has been edited by Simon Ryan (edited 14 September 2000).]
I am currently awaiting the delivery of a EVO VI Tommi Mak, and have been lent a standard GSR in the meantime.
How do they compare:
Straight out acceleration wise the EVO does feel slightly quicker than the Sti, but when in comes to the handling the EVO feels far more solid, whereas the Sti seemed to have too much roll. You can throw the EVO about in a way that you wouldn't imagine, but I was always very wary of the Scoob. I can understand that the ride in the EVO is too firm for some, the wife is not keen at all.
I must admit the sound is disappointing in the EVO, whereas the Scooby was brilliant!
Interior is much of a muchness. Both have their nice touches, but obviously these cars are not built for refinment. I like the Alcantara lining in the Sti, and think I prefer the seats over the EVO Recaros, and love the huge central rev guage redlining at over 8,000! With the EVO I like the Climate control system.
I seem to be always in and out of Petrol stations in the EVO (though not at the moment!!!), but I think that is due to a smaller tank rather than more consumption. The last times I have filled it up I have put in roughly 30 litres and gotten about 140 miles from that.
Any way I could go on for ages about these cars. email me if you want any further info or as I live in Caversham if you want to look over the EVO I have no problem in meeting up.
Oh by the way cost of car... I shouldn't be saying this but I am getting my Tommi Mak for 23.5K brand new!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old S300 WRX
Actually my email has changed to sryan@alphablox.com. How do I change it in the profiles bit?
[This message has been edited by Simon Ryan (edited 14 September 2000).]
14 September 2000, 12:52 AM
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sti 5 running costs (this really shouldn't be the deciding factor you know)
average 24 mpg or worse - 26 mpg on motorway , down to 9 mpg when thrashed. Can only use Super Unleaded + octane booster or broquet.
servicing - very cheap - 6000 mile intervals
- with a grey import you get to choose where you get this done - I use a specialist in Manchester who charges way less per hour than UK Subaru dealers, is far more knowledgeable, has also the same equipment and uses genuine subaru spares. The same location can also do Evo's - so no difference really. Definitely cheaper to service than a UK sourced car.
Insurance is a different kettle of fish - check out my current thread in the grey import insurance sections of the BBS !
Paul W
average 24 mpg or worse - 26 mpg on motorway , down to 9 mpg when thrashed. Can only use Super Unleaded + octane booster or broquet.
servicing - very cheap - 6000 mile intervals
- with a grey import you get to choose where you get this done - I use a specialist in Manchester who charges way less per hour than UK Subaru dealers, is far more knowledgeable, has also the same equipment and uses genuine subaru spares. The same location can also do Evo's - so no difference really. Definitely cheaper to service than a UK sourced car.
Insurance is a different kettle of fish - check out my current thread in the grey import insurance sections of the BBS !
Paul W
14 September 2000, 09:02 AM
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Cost may be irrelevent to you...
...however a new STi V can be found for around £20-22k and new Evo VI is typically £25-28 if you can find one.
Evo will cost more to service and more to fuel.
STi V understeer, very easy to fix - my STi rarely if ever understeers, rearward handling bias with Anti-lift kit, bump steer elimination and a proper geometry set up (total cost £240) has completely transformed the handling of the car. Has to be driven to be believed.
Cheers,
R
PS If it helps - on GT2 my 404bhp Sti is quicker than my 372bhp Evo VI - BUT the Evo VI is so much more driveable - very taut handling and completely chuckable....
[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 14 September 2000).]
...however a new STi V can be found for around £20-22k and new Evo VI is typically £25-28 if you can find one.
Evo will cost more to service and more to fuel.
STi V understeer, very easy to fix - my STi rarely if ever understeers, rearward handling bias with Anti-lift kit, bump steer elimination and a proper geometry set up (total cost £240) has completely transformed the handling of the car. Has to be driven to be believed.
Cheers,
R
PS If it helps - on GT2 my 404bhp Sti is quicker than my 372bhp Evo VI - BUT the Evo VI is so much more driveable - very taut handling and completely chuckable....
[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 14 September 2000).]
14 September 2000, 10:45 AM
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One other thing to consider is depreciation, by far the biggest expense. The STI v will probably be worth less in months/years to come with the new shape coming out.
Much as we hate the new shape, it will become the one to have once we all get used to it and the current model will start to look ancient as a result.
I plan to just keep mine for a few more years and just enjoy it since depreciation is no issue until you come to sell it.
Whatever choice you make, I'm sure you'll have alot of fun
Much as we hate the new shape, it will become the one to have once we all get used to it and the current model will start to look ancient as a result.
I plan to just keep mine for a few more years and just enjoy it since depreciation is no issue until you come to sell it.
Whatever choice you make, I'm sure you'll have alot of fun
14 September 2000, 11:25 AM
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Colin,
BOTH the Subaru and the Evo are about to be replaced - in both cases by possibly less attractive models ()
In addition the very low price of new STis is probably at its lowest ebb.
So, probably not a deciding factor...
BOTH the Subaru and the Evo are about to be replaced - in both cases by possibly less attractive models (
)In addition the very low price of new STis is probably at its lowest ebb.
So, probably not a deciding factor...
14 September 2000, 02:26 PM
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If your concerned about fuel consumption, why don't you buy a UK spec car, (95 ron unleaded) and then spend a load of money on mods ie: full catless Scooby Sport Exhaust, Prodrive Spolier, Colour Coding, AP Brakes, 17"'s, Leda or Prodrive Suspension etc etc Then you'd have a most desirable car, which ran on normal widely available fuel and was cheaper to insure.
Just a thought to chuck in
Just a thought to chuck in
14 September 2000, 02:45 PM
#15
Hey ugly......
If you've got to worry about running costs etc....you shouldn't be buying such a car..! I beleive free insurance etc is being offered on some small hatches these days and some of these 1 litre vehicles can return 40 - 60 mpg WOW !
If you've got to worry about running costs etc....you shouldn't be buying such a car..! I beleive free insurance etc is being offered on some small hatches these days and some of these 1 litre vehicles can return 40 - 60 mpg WOW !
14 September 2000, 04:55 PM
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I drove both, and bought the STi V5.
The official service is every 7500 for an import, not 6000 as previously stated. However the Evo is every 4000? Which is ridiculous if you ask me!!!
The cars are close, but the feel of the car and the shift were better in the STi
Give me a shout if you want to know more.
The official service is every 7500 for an import, not 6000 as previously stated. However the Evo is every 4000? Which is ridiculous if you ask me!!!
The cars are close, but the feel of the car and the shift were better in the STi
Give me a shout if you want to know more.
14 September 2000, 11:31 PM
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blp - advise you read your manual (yeah I know its in japanese but you can decipher the figures) again... sti = 10,000 km between oil changes = 6250 miles on my calculator - also a stipulation of my 3rd party warranty that the services be done every 6k (I actually change oil every 3k)
anyway - still better than evo but not really an issue as all services are cheap until you get to 25,000 miles and onwards
did I mention that the sunvisors in the sti cost 4.63 pence each to make whereas the evo has ones costing upwards of 8 pence ?
Paul W
anyway - still better than evo but not really an issue as all services are cheap until you get to 25,000 miles and onwards
did I mention that the sunvisors in the sti cost 4.63 pence each to make whereas the evo has ones costing upwards of 8 pence ?
Paul W
15 September 2000, 01:52 PM
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To actually answer Martin's question:
My Evo 6 - 13 months old. 16000 miles:
Average consumption, 18.9mpg. This includes 2500 fast & hard driving miles to Catalunya & back, and 4 trackdays.
Previous MY98 UK Scooby, 13000 miles, including Catalunya and no trackdays - 21.5mpg
Evo servicing (for a Ralliart car at least) - 4500 mile (or 6 month) interim services (oil and AYC fluids), about £100 at Mitsy dealer
9000 mile (or 12 month) major(ish) services, varies. I've done the 9000 and it would have been about £150 had I not had a few bits fitted. The 18000 is coming up, I think a few more bits need doing, so will probably be more.
I find the Evo just as livable with day-to-day as the Scooby was. Only irritation is 50l fuel tank compared to Scooby 60l. Motorway journey's aren't too bad, I turn the stereo up, and mine has a fantastic sounding Scoobysport exhaust, which is lovely when off the motorway, and not too bad on it.
I've put Leda on mine, partly for track days, and partly to soften up the standard ride when off the track.
17" wheels as standard, so tyres a little more expensive than Scooby 16".
Brembo brake size pads can be expensive, but there is quite a bit of choice (Brembo, Mintex, AP, Ferodo).
Insurance same as STI.
Residuals probably going to be stronger, but not by much, I think.
Aftermarket parts are surprisingly quite common - there are several importers and manufacturers.
Servicing is also easier than STI, I think, as all Mitsy dealers will now service any grey or official Evo. Ralliart UK & CoordSport are pretty good generally, except for initial delivery delays.
Hope that helps.
Andrew
My Evo 6 - 13 months old. 16000 miles:
Average consumption, 18.9mpg. This includes 2500 fast & hard driving miles to Catalunya & back, and 4 trackdays.
Previous MY98 UK Scooby, 13000 miles, including Catalunya and no trackdays - 21.5mpg
Evo servicing (for a Ralliart car at least) - 4500 mile (or 6 month) interim services (oil and AYC fluids), about £100 at Mitsy dealer
9000 mile (or 12 month) major(ish) services, varies. I've done the 9000 and it would have been about £150 had I not had a few bits fitted. The 18000 is coming up, I think a few more bits need doing, so will probably be more.
I find the Evo just as livable with day-to-day as the Scooby was. Only irritation is 50l fuel tank compared to Scooby 60l. Motorway journey's aren't too bad, I turn the stereo up, and mine has a fantastic sounding Scoobysport exhaust, which is lovely when off the motorway, and not too bad on it.
I've put Leda on mine, partly for track days, and partly to soften up the standard ride when off the track.
17" wheels as standard, so tyres a little more expensive than Scooby 16".
Brembo brake size pads can be expensive, but there is quite a bit of choice (Brembo, Mintex, AP, Ferodo).
Insurance same as STI.
Residuals probably going to be stronger, but not by much, I think.
Aftermarket parts are surprisingly quite common - there are several importers and manufacturers.
Servicing is also easier than STI, I think, as all Mitsy dealers will now service any grey or official Evo. Ralliart UK & CoordSport are pretty good generally, except for initial delivery delays.
Hope that helps.
Andrew
15 September 2000, 02:05 PM
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Andrew,
thanks mate, that's exactly what I wanted to know. After much deliberation, test drives and advice, I have finally decided on an Evo. Sorry to dissapoint all the Scooby lovers, but I think the Evo is more me. As I have said, performance wise I don't think there is much in it - at the end of the day I prefer the 'in yer face' styling of the Evo and the fact that it is a little different and certainly rarer than the STI. After talking to the owners I don't think that there is much difference in the running costs, apart from the frequency of servicing - but then I like to service my cars every 3000 miles anyway.
Thanks again for all the help, advice and even the sarchy comments (Bananaman), much appreciated.
Cheers,
Martin.
thanks mate, that's exactly what I wanted to know. After much deliberation, test drives and advice, I have finally decided on an Evo. Sorry to dissapoint all the Scooby lovers, but I think the Evo is more me. As I have said, performance wise I don't think there is much in it - at the end of the day I prefer the 'in yer face' styling of the Evo and the fact that it is a little different and certainly rarer than the STI. After talking to the owners I don't think that there is much difference in the running costs, apart from the frequency of servicing - but then I like to service my cars every 3000 miles anyway.
Thanks again for all the help, advice and even the sarchy comments (Bananaman), much appreciated.
Cheers,
Martin.
