WR1 Wannabe

Hi guys,

First post here - hopefully one of many. Does anyone know why you need to pre-register a WR1 before it gets tweaked by Prodrive? I had assumed it was an emissions issue, but the more I think about it the less sure I am.

It's not like an STi PPP, for example, which isn't markerted and sold by Subaru as an actual model. With the WR1, I assume it is registered as such? This is a car that is marketed by Subaru, and can be found on insurance companies' model lists. What we seem to be getting, in reality, would be a modded WR1! If that is the case, how come there isn't an insurance issue?

This is actually an important question for me as pre-registering it problematic, and I am wondering what the reason for it is so that I can try and work out if there is a way around it.

Cheers.

Nick

The WR1 is not type approved with the PPP.

greasemonkey

You're right, it is largely an emissions/type approval issue. The car is type approved with 265ps, so the upgrade to 320 must be fitted after registration.

As far as type approval is concerned, the issue with the WR1 and the "regular" STi PPP cars is the same. The WR1 is not type approved as a standalone model, it scrapes in as a regular STi because the basic engine is the same.

You're making the mistake of thinking that insurance and type approval are the same thing. They're not. The insurance companies know the WR1 has 320ps. The type approval people think it comes with 265.

There is no practical way round it.

WR1 Wannabe

Hmm. So Subaru are pretty blatantly saying, "We want to sell a car called the WR1, but we can't get approval for it. So what we intend to do is manufacture the car in a de-tuned state, for which we can get approval for, and then get the customer to register it. Then, before we actually deliver it, we're going to tune it up so that it matches our adverts, then the customer can have it. The WR1 will never be sold without these modifications, so every WR1 will always fall foul of emissions regulations, but hey, give us the Type Approval anyway ‘cos this is a neat loophole that makes a mockery of the law and we’re going to exploit it until you catch on and plug it”.

I can understand how this works for after-market mods, but the WR1 is very much a manufacturer-marketed item – I’m pretty amazed they’re getting away with it actually. Although I did notice they have stopped short of publishing gas emission/fuel consumption figures for the WR1.

My local dealer had no idea this was a requirement until I mentioned it to him either - he was expecting the car to turn up fully fettled, and ready to be registered. Has anyone enquired of Subaru if it is possible to get a finished car without registering it half-way through production (for whatever reason)? Unfortunately I don’t live on the mainland, and my local authority won’t allow vehicles to be registered that aren’t physically present in the jurisdiction…

greasemonkey

Yep, basically.

It's a common industry practice. The WR1 is no different to the other PPP cars, and the Mitsubishi FQ series.

The alternative is none of these limited editions hitting the market at all, or if they do, at an even higher price.

WR1 Wannabe

>The WR1 is no different to the other PPP cars, and the Mitsubishi FQ series.

Hmm, not sure about that. My local Mitsu dealer has unregistered FQs in his showroom, so they clearly don't have to be registered before delivery...

And as far as the PPP is concerned, that is also different. You don't register an STi PPP at the DVS - you register an STi and then wander off and mod it at will, and in your own time. If you are registering a WR1, then that is what it is. If the WR1 has type approval, or meets emissions (whatever), before the mods, but is still REGISTERED as a WR1, then what difference does it make if you register a WR1 after Prodrive have modified it? Whatever is done to it, it is still a WR1 as far as the DVS is concerned...

*Not entirely convinced*

JGRIFF

The type approval regs are dictated by the EU, for the WR1 to have stand alone type approval - even as an evolved version, would be well into 7 figures (£UKP). This is because the whole vehicle has to be re-submitted for approval not just the tuning package bits and pieces.

It is not some shady underhand activity, it is a common practice within the industry, recognised by European governments, hence why phone equipment is fitted at the dealerships, despite the basic wiring having been done at the factory.

The WR1 is known in the rest of Europe as the "Petter Solberg" limited edition ie STI with a-dccd. On top of the basic "PS" STI package there are all sorts of goodies, some of which can't be fitted until after registration (PPP and HID driving lamps) The WR1 also gets 18" wheels, which the rest of Europe don't get because Swiss law requires sufficient wheel arch clearance to fit snow chains, so they stand with the 17"

Gresemonkey, I'm with you on this one, lets not get into what is and isn't on the WR1 & "PS", both are grewat cars, I just happen not to be a fan of the WR1 colour scheme!!!

WR1 Wannabe

JGRIFF, you are the first person to begin outlining the differences between the WR1 and PS version - seems odd that you close your message asking people not to get into it! Anyway, I know about TA - you seem to be missing my point. And lots of cars have redundant wiring on them by the way - often for optional extras that weren't subsequently specified by the buyer. Manufacturers are not going to wire vehicles differently at the factory for specific customers. Which is also why you get blanking plates instead of the air-con switch, etc., if it's an option you chose not to have.

My point, or maybe it's a question, is in relation to what WR1s are registered under at the DVS - can anyone answer that perhaps? What does it say in the log book?

If you are registering it as a new WR1, why can't Prodrive put the mods on anyway? Do the DVS also emissions-test the car, etc? I thought you just posted the forms in, and that was it. Do they ask what the HP is, for example? How would they know that the car had been modified and, if it's OK to modify it after it's been registered anyway, how is anyone to know at which point the PPP was applied?

I can't understand how Subaru can publish specs for this car, yet convince the DVS that it is something else. If the DVS are aware of the modifications that take place after it's registered, but before the customer takes delivery, then what is the point of the exercise?

If I tell the DVS I've got a brand new, manufacturer-supplied WR1, which they are apparently fine with, then what would it matter what changes had been made to it on my instruction? On their books, a WR1 is a WR1 is a WR1.

Does anyone know if the mods have to be fitted by Prodrive, btw? You can buy the PPP for the STi and have it fitted by your dealer - wonder if I can get round my problem in the same way?

greasemonkey

The similarities/differences between the "European" car and the WR1 have been covered in depth in the past. Bit of searching will unearth a treasure of information.

DVLA you mean? It'll likely say Subaru Impreza, maybe Subaru Impreza STi, maybe even Subaru Impreza STi WR1.

It might not be Prodrive actually fitting the engine mods, could be IM's mob in Gloucestershire. As for the reason why the mods aren't fitted until after the car has been officially registered, that one has already been done to death - the car must remain in type-approved trim until it has been registered.

****'s sake, it's not like this sort of thing could be kept secret, is it?

Because they're making a very big, very obvious point of fitting the engine mods after registration.

Because there's a difference between obeying the letter of the law, and working within established precedents.

See above. The Prodrive guys will no doubt know more about exactly where and when this is done.

Unlikely. The WR1's PPP is obviously different from the "normal" STi version, and thus they'd probably insist on the conversion being carried out by the correct staff for warranty reasons.

WR1 Wannabe

>The similarities/differences between the "European" car and the WR1 have
>been covered in depth in the past. Bit of searching will unearth a treasure of
>information.

Bah! I KNOW the differences between them! I didn't ask what they were. JGRIFF brought that one up, then asked nobody else to talk about it.

>DVLA you mean?

OK. It's the DVS where I am (Driver & Vehicle Standards).

>It'll likely say Subaru Impreza, maybe Subaru Impreza STi, maybe even
>Subaru Impreza STi WR1.

Well, if it was anything OTHER than WR1, then that would explain everything quite reasonably. It's the definitive answer I'm waiting for...

>****'s sake, it's not like this sort of thing could be kept secret, is it?

My point entirely.

>Because they're making a very big, very obvious point of fitting the engine
>mods after registration.

Hmm. OK... Dunno if my DVS are going to like this. Hope to get an answer from them tomorrow on what routes are available for this sort of thing. When the P1 came out it was OK to register it without the car being here, but they have since changed the law. If they won't allow it then I am going to have to see if Subaru will release an unmodified car to the dealer for registration purposes - doesn't sound all that likely though, not to mention the shipping costs backwards and forwards 3 times.

>Because there's a difference between obeying the letter of the law, and
>working within established precedents.

...Yer honour.

>The Prodrive guys will no doubt know more about exactly where
>and when this is done.

I guess it's worth a call to them. Anyone got contact details for them? Can't seem to find a UK website for them...

>Unlikely. The WR1's PPP is obviously different from the "normal" STi version,
>and thus they'd probably insist on the conversion being carried out by the
>correct staff for warranty reasons.

True, but the PPP is warranted as well, and my dealer can fit that - said he had a qualified technician. The WR1 conversion is more involved though, unless they'd agree to do most of it and just leave off the exhaust and ECU for my dealer to fit after registration.

Grrr! My dealer accepted my order and took a deposit, but didn't know anything about these issues (and some others that I pointed out, such as him telling people he had a demonstrator arriving any day, which isn't possible). Really looking forward to the Scooby now (my first), and don't want to have to can the idea for an Evo MR, which is much simpler to buy.

Chelspeed

> OK. It's the DVS where I am (Driver & Vehicle Standards).

Where's that then?

> I guess it's worth a call to them. Anyone got contact details for them?
> Can't seem to find a UK website for them...

Oddly enough it's http://www.prodrive.com

STI MAN

WR1 Wannabe,


I fail to see what your problem is with all of this???

From my point of view,

1) Order Car.
2) Wait
3) Wait some more
4) {you get the idea}
5) Registration pack turns up
6) Car eventually arrives at dealers
7) Insure Car
8) Pick up car


As it's a WR1, NOT the Petter Solberg one, surely you don't need to worry about having to deal with the SVA type approval?


One point to add, how is everyone faring with insurance quotes, Privelege have told me it'll cost an extra £21 over my Prodrive MY02 PPP. Bargain

Brian the Sn@il

STI MAN --

From my point of view,

1) Order Car.
2) Wait
3) Wait some more
4) {you get the idea}
5) Wait
6) Start to get annoyed
7) Wait
8) Maybe name down on a FQ340 while i wait
9) Wait with order on WR1 and FQ340
10) still waiting.................

WR1 Wannabe

>I fail to see what your problem is with all of this???

I live in the Channel Islands. Like I said, I can't register a car that isn't physically here...

So, from my point of view,

1) Order Car.
2) Wait
3) Wait some more
4) {you get the idea}
5) Registration pack turns up
6) Now what?

>As it's a WR1, NOT the Petter Solberg one, surely you don't need to worry
>about having to deal with the SVA type approval?

Not the issue. It would be easy for me to bring in a car without TA - all I'd need to do is pop down the DVS while they give it a 5 minute check over. About £25 and I'm free to go. It'd be great if Subaru/Prodrive would send me one without it having to be registered first.

>how is everyone faring with insurance quotes, Privelege have told me it'll
>cost an extra £21 over my Prodrive MY02 PPP. Bargain

DirectLine quoted me £20 over my Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo. Both group 20 cars, but still sounds like a bargain to me considering the difference in current value.

STI MAN

Perhaps if you'd have mentioned that you live in the channel isles instead of saying a broad statement like

I would guess that 99% of the WR1 cars will live in the UK so dealing with SVA is NOT an issue.

?

P1_BEN

I've been quoted 890 for the wr1 P1 was costing me 2k 2and a half years ago so well chuffed. 26, 5Y NCB, Kent, Off road parking despite being shared underground parking...

Nick

That 500 cars x 1% = ½ calc got edited-out pretty quick!

WR1 Wannabe

>Perhaps if you'd have mentioned that you live in the channel isles instead of
>saying a broad statement like...

Well, in my second post I said, "Unfortunately I don’t live on the mainland, and my local authority won’t allow vehicles to be registered that aren’t physically present in the jurisdiction…"

Perhaps if you'd read the whole thread before replying...

P1_BEN

nick.... doh

Nick

Rum*

WR1Wann......

You have PM, check your in box on Scoobynet

Tom