Porsche club
02 June 2000, 06:40 PM
#4
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Ring the club office, the technical guy is Steve Kevlin 01608-652-911
or email him on Hqpcgb@aol.com (this is a generic address, so mention his name)
I help out on the Boxster register - I have an S as my fun car (taking to a Porshe Club track day at Goodwood tomorrow) and the STI V 4 door is my sensible car
Nic
or email him on Hqpcgb@aol.com (this is a generic address, so mention his name)
I help out on the Boxster register - I have an S as my fun car (taking to a Porshe Club track day at Goodwood tomorrow) and the STI V 4 door is my sensible car
Nic
13 June 2000, 03:38 PM
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Dave,
How did you go?
I suspect they rejected your offer. You're not the first WRX owner that has tried (in vain) to arrange an inter-club event expressly for the purpose (I presume) of trying to show-up a marque, in this case Porsche, with a car you assume to be a superior, or at least, a car that in theory should be superior, if only you could prove it!
Dave, these Porsche guys can see right through your veil, and believe me when I say this, they are not running scared, they just (accurately) perceive you WRX hoons as the unsafe loons you are!
This is what happens when an irresponsible car manufacturer makes a recklessly potent buzz box accessible to the lowest common denominator, in terms of the car's ‘entry fee’, and its performance capabilities.
This bulletin board and your on-road manners is the only proof I need, not some unwieldy WRX slamming into the back of my car at the END of a 200+ km/h straight!
Matt Holcomb
--------------------
1974 911 Carrera 2.7
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 13-06-2000).]
How did you go?
I suspect they rejected your offer. You're not the first WRX owner that has tried (in vain) to arrange an inter-club event expressly for the purpose (I presume) of trying to show-up a marque, in this case Porsche, with a car you assume to be a superior, or at least, a car that in theory should be superior, if only you could prove it!
Dave, these Porsche guys can see right through your veil, and believe me when I say this, they are not running scared, they just (accurately) perceive you WRX hoons as the unsafe loons you are!
This is what happens when an irresponsible car manufacturer makes a recklessly potent buzz box accessible to the lowest common denominator, in terms of the car's ‘entry fee’, and its performance capabilities.
This bulletin board and your on-road manners is the only proof I need, not some unwieldy WRX slamming into the back of my car at the END of a 200+ km/h straight!
Matt Holcomb
--------------------
1974 911 Carrera 2.7
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 13-06-2000).]
13 June 2000, 03:47 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>This is what happens when an irresponsible car manufacturer makes a recklessly potent buzz box accessible to the lowest common denominator, in terms of the car's ‘entry fee’, and its performance capabilities. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Matt
Are you trying to say that only those with the money to buy a Porsche are the only safe drivers, since when did money buy Intelligence and driving ability?
And they obviously weren't Porsches, (959, 911 Turbos, Carreras, etc at Bentley with the Imprezas on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Paul
Struggling to believe that someone actually believes that because they own a Porsche they are a better driver!
[This message has been edited by pnebbs (edited 13-06-2000).]
Matt
Are you trying to say that only those with the money to buy a Porsche are the only safe drivers, since when did money buy Intelligence and driving ability?
And they obviously weren't Porsches, (959, 911 Turbos, Carreras, etc at Bentley with the Imprezas on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Paul
Struggling to believe that someone actually believes that because they own a Porsche they are a better driver!
[This message has been edited by pnebbs (edited 13-06-2000).]
13 June 2000, 03:56 PM
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Handbags anyone?
Why is it assumed that Dave was trying to invite the Porsche folks with the sole intention of trying to humiliate them?
It's a shame that an elitest such as Mr Holcomb should come on this board and help reinforce the perception many hold of Porche owners being snobs.
The Bentley Porsche concours meet was very friendly, packed with sports car enthusiasts, not arrogant loudmouths like Matt.
It's a shame a marque like Porsche is now owned and driven more by status chasing poseurs these days than the motor car enthusiasts whose pocket it has been priced out of.
Charles
Why is it assumed that Dave was trying to invite the Porsche folks with the sole intention of trying to humiliate them?
It's a shame that an elitest such as Mr Holcomb should come on this board and help reinforce the perception many hold of Porche owners being snobs.
The Bentley Porsche concours meet was very friendly, packed with sports car enthusiasts, not arrogant loudmouths like Matt.
It's a shame a marque like Porsche is now owned and driven more by status chasing poseurs these days than the motor car enthusiasts whose pocket it has been priced out of.
Charles
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13 June 2000, 04:22 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by pnebbs:
Matt
Are you trying to say that only those with the money to buy a Porsche are the only safe drivers, since when did money buy Intelligence and driving ability? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
pnebbs,
A Porsche 911 demands and promotes respect, which is just one of its many virtues. Most people buy 911's and insure them, and to insure a 911 you have to be considered a little more than a good risk. If you’re considered a bad risk, then you must be willing to bankroll your own stupidity by paying more for your insurance premium than the value of the car!
Here in Australia, my 74’ Carrera is the same price as a 2000 Subaru WRX.
Chuckster, does that mean I'm still a snob, or am I a snob because I made an informed decision to spend $40K on a 26-year-old Porsche, instead of a spanking new WRX?
Matt Holcomb
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 13-06-2000).]
Matt
Are you trying to say that only those with the money to buy a Porsche are the only safe drivers, since when did money buy Intelligence and driving ability? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
pnebbs,
A Porsche 911 demands and promotes respect, which is just one of its many virtues. Most people buy 911's and insure them, and to insure a 911 you have to be considered a little more than a good risk. If you’re considered a bad risk, then you must be willing to bankroll your own stupidity by paying more for your insurance premium than the value of the car!
Here in Australia, my 74’ Carrera is the same price as a 2000 Subaru WRX.
Chuckster, does that mean I'm still a snob, or am I a snob because I made an informed decision to spend $40K on a 26-year-old Porsche, instead of a spanking new WRX?
Matt Holcomb
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 13-06-2000).]
13 June 2000, 04:29 PM
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Hello Matt
I take it you are the Matt from Melbourne, Australia. I've never been to Oz so don't know the type of people that drive WRX's over there. In the UK most Subaru and Porsche owners I have met love fast cars first and foremost. It is interesting to see/talk about other performance cars whoever makes them, Bentley Park proves this.
I think Dave was just trying to get lots of different marques together so people could admire/talk about each others cars.
Mark
[This message has been edited by Mark Champion (edited 13-06-2000).]
I take it you are the Matt from Melbourne, Australia. I've never been to Oz so don't know the type of people that drive WRX's over there. In the UK most Subaru and Porsche owners I have met love fast cars first and foremost. It is interesting to see/talk about other performance cars whoever makes them, Bentley Park proves this.
I think Dave was just trying to get lots of different marques together so people could admire/talk about each others cars.
Mark
[This message has been edited by Mark Champion (edited 13-06-2000).]
13 June 2000, 04:42 PM
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I know nothing about porsches and indeed haven't taken delivery of my scoob yet, so can't comment on that, but...
I respect the porsche marque 'n all that, but isn't is possible that a WRX is faster and might handle better and even possibly outbrake a '74 911? I do realise that age doesn't imply poor performance, but alot of sportscars of old (does '74 qualify?) are now superceded in performance by relatively new and 'cheaper' marques?
let flaming commence...
I respect the porsche marque 'n all that, but isn't is possible that a WRX is faster and might handle better and even possibly outbrake a '74 911? I do realise that age doesn't imply poor performance, but alot of sportscars of old (does '74 qualify?) are now superceded in performance by relatively new and 'cheaper' marques?
let flaming commence...
13 June 2000, 04:51 PM
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Matt, does what mean you are a snob? You choose to buy a 26 year old classic over a modern performance car - fine. Did you do this because the Porsche is a better handling car, or quicker? You can't have - or your 'informed decision' was based on woefully inadequate facts.
I like Porsches, I'd have one if they were a little more practical. I'm not blindly loyal to any marque.
But my objection to your post was the insinuation that all Impreza drivers are 'hoons' and that we are not worthy of existing on the same roads as our Porsche owning neighbors.
A Subaru is as difficult to insure as a Porsche, could you clarify the point you were attempting to make?
I pay a significant amount in insurance, but I live in a suburban town, I'm 30, am married and have 2 children - my personal risk group is therefore low, however I drive a high powered, expensive car and expect the premium to reflect that - it certainly wouldn't be cheaper to insure a new Porsche costing twice as much!
If you are aiming your post only at Dave, after researching his on road antics on this BBS, then perhaps you should have emailed him directly, rather than post your first ever post here.
A Porsche demands and promotes respect? Only in responsible drivers, and a scooby no less so. Both can and have been seriously misused by hooligans.
Charles
I like Porsches, I'd have one if they were a little more practical. I'm not blindly loyal to any marque.
But my objection to your post was the insinuation that all Impreza drivers are 'hoons' and that we are not worthy of existing on the same roads as our Porsche owning neighbors.
A Subaru is as difficult to insure as a Porsche, could you clarify the point you were attempting to make?
I pay a significant amount in insurance, but I live in a suburban town, I'm 30, am married and have 2 children - my personal risk group is therefore low, however I drive a high powered, expensive car and expect the premium to reflect that - it certainly wouldn't be cheaper to insure a new Porsche costing twice as much!
If you are aiming your post only at Dave, after researching his on road antics on this BBS, then perhaps you should have emailed him directly, rather than post your first ever post here.
A Porsche demands and promotes respect? Only in responsible drivers, and a scooby no less so. Both can and have been seriously misused by hooligans.
Charles
13 June 2000, 05:05 PM
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"lowest common denominator" ???
You cheeky git! Just because you drive a Porsche mate dosen't put you above me or anyone else here on this BBS..and you rekon there's such a massive gap in performance between your 1974 911 and a modern WRX??? Heehehee.....
GET A LIFE !
Gethin.
You cheeky git! Just because you drive a Porsche mate dosen't put you above me or anyone else here on this BBS..and you rekon there's such a massive gap in performance between your 1974 911 and a modern WRX??? Heehehee.....
GET A LIFE !
Gethin.
13 June 2000, 05:07 PM
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Mark,
How am I the Matt from Melbourne, Australia?
I made a judgment on Dave's post based on my research of this specific bulletin board. I shall wait for Dave to rebuke my assumptions if I judged his post harshly and/or incorrectly.
My experience of inter-club events down here does not accord with what you say about the inter-club events (such as Bentley) in the UK, in fact, it's quite the opposite! When Australian’s buy WRX's, they eventually yearn to prove the car’s mettle against a sports car icon like the 911 so as either to justify their decision, or to compensate for the fact that they believe they can’t afford a 911. Unfortunately, this is capsulized in these inter-club events, often with disastrous results.
I suppose that's what happens when a mobile litmus test becomes a symbol of material excess.
Matt Holcomb
--------------------
1974 911 Carrera 2.7
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 13-06-2000).]
How am I the Matt from Melbourne, Australia?
I made a judgment on Dave's post based on my research of this specific bulletin board. I shall wait for Dave to rebuke my assumptions if I judged his post harshly and/or incorrectly.
My experience of inter-club events down here does not accord with what you say about the inter-club events (such as Bentley) in the UK, in fact, it's quite the opposite! When Australian’s buy WRX's, they eventually yearn to prove the car’s mettle against a sports car icon like the 911 so as either to justify their decision, or to compensate for the fact that they believe they can’t afford a 911. Unfortunately, this is capsulized in these inter-club events, often with disastrous results.
I suppose that's what happens when a mobile litmus test becomes a symbol of material excess.
Matt Holcomb
--------------------
1974 911 Carrera 2.7
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 13-06-2000).]
13 June 2000, 05:25 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fosters:
<B>I know nothing about porsches and indeed haven't taken delivery of my scoob yet, so can't comment on that, but...
I respect the porsche marque 'n all that, but isn't is possible that a WRX is faster and might handle better and even possibly outbrake a '74 911? I do realise that age doesn't imply poor performance, but alot of sportscars of old (does '74 qualify?) are now superceded in performance by relatively new and 'cheaper' marques?
let flaming commence...[/quote]
Fosters,
I shall only quote the facts:
1974 Carrera 2.7
SAE gross-horsepower - 230hp
SAE gross-torque - 285nm
SAE gross-output per liter - 85hp
Weight - 1075kg
0-100km/h - 5.5secs
0-400m - 14.2secs
TOP SPEED - 245km/h.
The 0-100km/h acceleration time I have quoted has been conservatively estimated, as I have high compression pistons and a modified exhaust system. The difference between the estimated 0-100km/h time and that of a road test of a standard 74' Carrera amounts to well under half a second. I have elected to quote the factory claims for the 0-400m time, and the car’s top speed.
As far as my brakes go, I have the original hydraulic, dual circuit, vented-disc brakes on all four wheels. Good enough?!
Chuckster,
Replacement value is major consideration of an insurance firm, especially if only 30 examples of a certain car were originally delegated to Australia 26-six-years-ago.
Matt Holcomb
----------------
1974 Carrera 2.7
<B>I know nothing about porsches and indeed haven't taken delivery of my scoob yet, so can't comment on that, but...
I respect the porsche marque 'n all that, but isn't is possible that a WRX is faster and might handle better and even possibly outbrake a '74 911? I do realise that age doesn't imply poor performance, but alot of sportscars of old (does '74 qualify?) are now superceded in performance by relatively new and 'cheaper' marques?
let flaming commence...[/quote]
Fosters,
I shall only quote the facts:
1974 Carrera 2.7
SAE gross-horsepower - 230hp
SAE gross-torque - 285nm
SAE gross-output per liter - 85hp
Weight - 1075kg
0-100km/h - 5.5secs
0-400m - 14.2secs
TOP SPEED - 245km/h.
The 0-100km/h acceleration time I have quoted has been conservatively estimated, as I have high compression pistons and a modified exhaust system. The difference between the estimated 0-100km/h time and that of a road test of a standard 74' Carrera amounts to well under half a second. I have elected to quote the factory claims for the 0-400m time, and the car’s top speed.
As far as my brakes go, I have the original hydraulic, dual circuit, vented-disc brakes on all four wheels. Good enough?!
Chuckster,
Replacement value is major consideration of an insurance firm, especially if only 30 examples of a certain car were originally delegated to Australia 26-six-years-ago.
Matt Holcomb
----------------
1974 Carrera 2.7
13 June 2000, 05:26 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mark Champion:
<B>Matt
We both post to Porsche Talk. I checked your profile
Mark
[/quote]
Mark,
You got me
<B>Matt
We both post to Porsche Talk. I checked your profile
Mark
[/quote]
Mark,
You got me
13 June 2000, 05:27 PM
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Waaaaahaaaaaaahahahaha.
Matt, you can succesfully take the title for most mis-informed rant in the history of the BB, EVER!
Dave doesn't even own a scooby! What he was doing, was on behalf of the Supra owners club, who have invited <I>any</I> person in a decently quick car, be it scooby, cossie, supe, Porsche or what, to an inter-club meet, at Box Hill, on the 24th June.
We (those of us in the Supra Owners Club - I have one) started off with a little internal get-together, then we thought it would be good fun to invite some others along, and so invites were placed on the Scooby and RS BB's. Then someone on out mailing list suggested the Evo's, Skylines and Porsches, so Dave offered to invite them too. All he/we wanted to do was bring them along, and hopefully turn it into a great day out.
Please, check out your facts before having a go. Personally, I'd love to own an old Carrera like yours, but it doesn't help the Porsche marqrue when some owners appear to be unable to see unless they open their mouths.
Matt, you can succesfully take the title for most mis-informed rant in the history of the BB, EVER!
Dave doesn't even own a scooby! What he was doing, was on behalf of the Supra owners club, who have invited <I>any</I> person in a decently quick car, be it scooby, cossie, supe, Porsche or what, to an inter-club meet, at Box Hill, on the 24th June.
We (those of us in the Supra Owners Club - I have one) started off with a little internal get-together, then we thought it would be good fun to invite some others along, and so invites were placed on the Scooby and RS BB's. Then someone on out mailing list suggested the Evo's, Skylines and Porsches, so Dave offered to invite them too. All he/we wanted to do was bring them along, and hopefully turn it into a great day out.
Please, check out your facts before having a go. Personally, I'd love to own an old Carrera like yours, but it doesn't help the Porsche marqrue when some owners appear to be unable to see unless they open their mouths.
13 June 2000, 05:49 PM
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Matt
These facts you quote - are they supposed to show us how superior in performance your Porsche is to an Impreza,
Because an Impreza will embarass your Porsche on all of those figures (except maybe top speed) and will certainly outhandle and outgrip your Porsche.
You started off by saying we're irresponsible, sounds like you are the irresopnsible one to antagonise so many people
It certainly costs more to insure a decent Scoob here than it does an ancient descendant of the Volkswagon Beetle
I think most of us here respect any decent car, but I certainly don't think any of us would respect their owners if they are all as arrogant and blinkered as you
We certainly get on well with the Porsche owners in the UK, as Bentley showed on Sunday, they certainly had a more mature attitude than you
Paul
These facts you quote - are they supposed to show us how superior in performance your Porsche is to an Impreza,
Because an Impreza will embarass your Porsche on all of those figures (except maybe top speed) and will certainly outhandle and outgrip your Porsche.
You started off by saying we're irresponsible, sounds like you are the irresopnsible one to antagonise so many people
It certainly costs more to insure a decent Scoob here than it does an ancient descendant of the Volkswagon Beetle
I think most of us here respect any decent car, but I certainly don't think any of us would respect their owners if they are all as arrogant and blinkered as you
We certainly get on well with the Porsche owners in the UK, as Bentley showed on Sunday, they certainly had a more mature attitude than you
Paul
13 June 2000, 05:50 PM
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I have owned a couple of Porsches, and I was a member of the club. I only went to one meet, and some of the people were normal, and some thought that owning a Porsche made them better than other car owners and were complete tossers.
13 June 2000, 06:29 PM
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You COMPLETE EFFING IDIOT.
I don't own a scooby as Beef said. I wish I hadn't bothered inviting your club now. I do sincerely hope that the rest of the porsche club don't have there heads up there backsides like you do.
If you'd bothered going to the supra site to take a look you would have seen it was a inter club event. But no you decided to have a undereducated rant instead.
Your a miserable git, please do us a favor and don't bother turing up at Box Hill. The last thing we want is a sulking B@stard like you turning up.
Yours completely p1ssed off,
Dave "RENAULT" Refault
13 June 2000, 08:07 PM
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Im sure most of us remember the reputation that Porsche owners had in the 80s - red braces wearing yuppies who believed they were superior to everybody they ever came into contact with, and it would appear Matt is some sort of 80s throwback who spends too much time admiring his 'classic' to get out and see how the world has changed.
I would also suggest that you get some decent performance stats before you boast about them on this BB. And you say a Porsche gets respect...well thats a new one on me. A Ferrari gets respect, but a Porsche is just another mass produced German car. They made driving one as safe as driving an Audi after too many 'driving experts' killed themselves through their own lack of driving skills. Out of the 30 cars like yours in Oz how many are left still in one piece?
Im hoping that the Porsche club in the UK do take us up on the offer to turn up to our meet. Nobody is going to pressure them into racing, and they might even enjoy a bit of attention.
I would also suggest that you get some decent performance stats before you boast about them on this BB. And you say a Porsche gets respect...well thats a new one on me. A Ferrari gets respect, but a Porsche is just another mass produced German car. They made driving one as safe as driving an Audi after too many 'driving experts' killed themselves through their own lack of driving skills. Out of the 30 cars like yours in Oz how many are left still in one piece?
Im hoping that the Porsche club in the UK do take us up on the offer to turn up to our meet. Nobody is going to pressure them into racing, and they might even enjoy a bit of attention.
13 June 2000, 10:13 PM
#23
Matt / MPH
Have a look at the "time to call it quits" thread and accept that you are part of the problem here. Was it really necessary to assume rather than question first? As a gentle suggestion, please either amend your "Kopf im Arsch" ways or leave.
I mean WTF does this mean "I suppose that's what happens when a mobile litmus test becomes a symbol of material excess." - other than you are [most likely] a pompous git.
I would like to thank you for stimulating "Mulder" to post one of the funniest rebukes I have seen in ages. Cheers!
Suresh
Have a look at the "time to call it quits" thread and accept that you are part of the problem here. Was it really necessary to assume rather than question first? As a gentle suggestion, please either amend your "Kopf im Arsch" ways or leave.
I mean WTF does this mean "I suppose that's what happens when a mobile litmus test becomes a symbol of material excess." - other than you are [most likely] a pompous git.
I would like to thank you for stimulating "Mulder" to post one of the funniest rebukes I have seen in ages. Cheers!
Suresh
13 June 2000, 10:25 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MPH:
<B>Dave,
This is what happens when an irresponsible car manufacturer makes a recklessly potent buzz box accessible to the lowest common denominator, in terms of the car's ‘entry fee’, and its performance capabilities.
This bulletin board and your on-road manners is the only proof I need, not some unwieldy WRX slamming into the back of my car at the END of a 200+ km/h straight!
Matt Holcomb[/quote]
Matt, the vast majority of Porsche drivers (and any other marque) are sensible. However, can I remind/inform you that 2 years ago 2 Porsches allegedly raced each other home from a Porsche event at Highclere Castle and were involved in a fatal road accident. Driving a Porsche doesn't make you a superior driver.
Secondly, we in Britain were subjected to an Australian TV series about learning to drive recently. It seemed that as long as you didn't have a near accident, you passed your test.
Make what you want of these comments.
P.S. I like Porsches.
<B>Dave,
This is what happens when an irresponsible car manufacturer makes a recklessly potent buzz box accessible to the lowest common denominator, in terms of the car's ‘entry fee’, and its performance capabilities.
This bulletin board and your on-road manners is the only proof I need, not some unwieldy WRX slamming into the back of my car at the END of a 200+ km/h straight!
Matt Holcomb[/quote]
Matt, the vast majority of Porsche drivers (and any other marque) are sensible. However, can I remind/inform you that 2 years ago 2 Porsches allegedly raced each other home from a Porsche event at Highclere Castle and were involved in a fatal road accident. Driving a Porsche doesn't make you a superior driver.
Secondly, we in Britain were subjected to an Australian TV series about learning to drive recently. It seemed that as long as you didn't have a near accident, you passed your test.
Make what you want of these comments.
P.S. I like Porsches.
13 June 2000, 11:41 PM
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It's a shame that such a nice car as an old 911 is driven by such a complete tw*t (and that's not 'twit' btw!).
Poor guy's just probably had enough of being outdriven by 'cheapo' cars.
Poor guy's just probably had enough of being outdriven by 'cheapo' cars.
14 June 2000, 12:46 AM
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I got what I wanted from my deceptively antagonistic contributions to the ‘Porsche Club’ topic, thank-you.
Yes, my methods were designed to be deceptive and ulterior in their implementation. If I have truly pissed anyone off as a consequence, then please accept my sincerest apologies.
My presence here at ScoobyNet, as antagonist will not continue, nor will I become a benevolent contributor. I don’t belong here; I have no reason to be here. I recognise the value of these BB’s. I myself am an active member of two lively and informative Porsche BB’s, that day by day, prove why this medium is and will continue to be the revolution that it is, and why BB’s such as this will be considered the ultimate forum for enthusiasts to share information and experiences, and to gain knowledge while reinforcing the passion that together, defines a healthy community based on a common interest.
I hope the exodus from ScoobyNet will abate, and quickly. From what I can tell, you also have a lively, informative and immediate community at your disposal, despite the odd member or two that can be a little testy and belligerent toward other members or issues that their patience does not quite reach.
Having said that, ScoobyNet is much larger than any BB I use and/or contribute to, and that might be why things appear to be spiraling out of control, or why a sense of order is eroding. I don’t think enforcing or maintaining a certain behavioral code is beyond the control of an extra moderator or two; I’m sure that collectively, you’ll work things out; you’ll find the right balance of decorum, mutual respect and passion, after all, that’s the point.
Again, accept my apologies if my illusory approach to finding and unearthing what I was after has offended anyone.
SO LONG & SAFE MOTORING!
Matt Holcomb
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 14-06-2000).]
Yes, my methods were designed to be deceptive and ulterior in their implementation. If I have truly pissed anyone off as a consequence, then please accept my sincerest apologies.
My presence here at ScoobyNet, as antagonist will not continue, nor will I become a benevolent contributor. I don’t belong here; I have no reason to be here. I recognise the value of these BB’s. I myself am an active member of two lively and informative Porsche BB’s, that day by day, prove why this medium is and will continue to be the revolution that it is, and why BB’s such as this will be considered the ultimate forum for enthusiasts to share information and experiences, and to gain knowledge while reinforcing the passion that together, defines a healthy community based on a common interest.
I hope the exodus from ScoobyNet will abate, and quickly. From what I can tell, you also have a lively, informative and immediate community at your disposal, despite the odd member or two that can be a little testy and belligerent toward other members or issues that their patience does not quite reach.
Having said that, ScoobyNet is much larger than any BB I use and/or contribute to, and that might be why things appear to be spiraling out of control, or why a sense of order is eroding. I don’t think enforcing or maintaining a certain behavioral code is beyond the control of an extra moderator or two; I’m sure that collectively, you’ll work things out; you’ll find the right balance of decorum, mutual respect and passion, after all, that’s the point.
Again, accept my apologies if my illusory approach to finding and unearthing what I was after has offended anyone.
SO LONG & SAFE MOTORING!
Matt Holcomb
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 14-06-2000).]
14 June 2000, 04:05 AM
#27
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I had a Scooby and loved it to bits (best car I ever had and better in some ways than its replacement, a Boxster).
I don't think recklessness and snobbery are confined to any marque - members of this forum regularly look down on the drivers of lesser machines, which isn't to say that the silly attitude displayed above by 1974 Carerra 2.7 (not even an RS?) (sad that the car is included as part of the signature - a person who needs a car to have an identity).
But the 911? up until recently a bumblebee in engineering terms. I know of many a gentle corner I would get out and walk around rather than try to drive around at faster than walking pace in the wet in an old 911. Scooby would just laugh as it kicked sand in the face of an old 911 on a wet roundabout.
I don't think recklessness and snobbery are confined to any marque - members of this forum regularly look down on the drivers of lesser machines, which isn't to say that the silly attitude displayed above by 1974 Carerra 2.7 (not even an RS?) (sad that the car is included as part of the signature - a person who needs a car to have an identity).
But the 911? up until recently a bumblebee in engineering terms. I know of many a gentle corner I would get out and walk around rather than try to drive around at faster than walking pace in the wet in an old 911. Scooby would just laugh as it kicked sand in the face of an old 911 on a wet roundabout.
14 June 2000, 06:32 AM
#29
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by jmckenna:
<B>I don't think recklessness and snobbery are confined to any marque - members of this forum regularly look down on the drivers of lesser machines, which isn't to say that the silly attitude displayed above by 1974 Carerra 2.7 (not even an RS?) [/quote]
The 1974 Carrera 2.7 is mechanically identical to the 1973 Carrera RS. The addition of impact bumpers and 100kg more weight is the only way you can differentiate a 74' Carrera from a 73' RS.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my identity and my car are not intertwined. The reason to use that signature is one based purely on pride.
<B>I don't think recklessness and snobbery are confined to any marque - members of this forum regularly look down on the drivers of lesser machines, which isn't to say that the silly attitude displayed above by 1974 Carerra 2.7 (not even an RS?) [/quote]
The 1974 Carrera 2.7 is mechanically identical to the 1973 Carrera RS. The addition of impact bumpers and 100kg more weight is the only way you can differentiate a 74' Carrera from a 73' RS.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my identity and my car are not intertwined. The reason to use that signature is one based purely on pride.
14 June 2000, 06:33 AM
#30
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<B> “Did you do this because the Porsche is a better handling car, or quicker? You can't have - or your 'informed decision' was based on woefully inadequate facts.” </B>
No, my informed decision was based on information I had been garnering for many years while I was a 911 enthusiast waiting to be a 911 owner. I readily acknowledge that there are a few cars that *might* be quicker and better handling cars compared to my particular 911, although having driven several post-98’ WRX’s, I’m quite confident the WRX is not one of them. Although I must concede that a WRX is potent enough to ensure it would be a very close contest. If you believe a WRX is a better handling car by virtue of AWD, then that, I’m afraid, is a highly subjective opinion.
<B> “But my objection to your post was the insinuation that all Impreza drivers are 'hoons' and that we are not worthy of existing on the same roads as our Porsche owning neighbors.” </B>
Look, let’s face the facts. The WRX began life as a car designed expressly to win the WRC. Then the head of product development at Subaru had the idea to offer a more sanitized version of the WRX to the buying public, at a price comfortably within the reach of many, while boasting near-supercar performance. The Impreza is fundamentally a straightforward and benign mass-produced Japanese 4-door sedan and 5-door hatch. But with the added benefits of forced induction and AWD, the Impreza WRX suddenly becomes a tangible and accessible performance prospect to a mass majority because its on-road capabilities are disproportionate to its purchase price. Statistics will prove that a mass market is defined by a very broad and diversified demographic, including many a buyer for whom a WRX is their second or even their first car. I think insurance premiums for the various incarnations of the WRX reflect the diverse profile of the product’s targeted market, and the car’s inherent ability to scoot rather rapidly down the road and tear around corners irrespective of the driver’s skill level.
I think it would pay for any of you to call a number of panel shops and insurance companies to determine just how many WRX’s are involved in accidents, and exactly the types of accidents these WRX's and their drivers are commonly a cause of. I think you may be surprised, then again, you may not.
It’s not that the WRX is not worthy, it’s just that a lot of people aren’t mentally equipped to zestfully punt around a car that demands no more skill than what is required to adeptly fling simulated versions of the same car through circuits made entirely of pixels! The WRX engenders a false sense of security and superiority in a driver not educated or intelligent enough to rationalize such feelings.
<B> “These facts you quote - are they supposed to show us how superior in performance your Porsche is to an Impreza.” </B>
You guys forced me into revealing my hand.
<B> “Because an Impreza will embarass your Porsche on all of those figures (except maybe top speed) and will certainly outhandle and outgrip your Porsche.” </B>
I’m not even going to dignify that with a response.
<B> "You started off by saying we're irresponsible, sounds like you are the irresopnsible one to antagonise so many people." [/b}
It’s more like I hit an exposed nerve. Put it this way, I knew what I was getting into; my motives may have been a little incendiary, but that is not so different to the motives that many have for investing their lives in the WRX phenomenon.
[b] “It certainly costs more to insure a decent Scoob here than it does an ancient descendant of the Volkswagon Beetle.” </B>
Christ, here we go, yet another embittered chump using a very old and inapplicable mode of attack, which to many 911 owners, is actually more of a compliment. But may I ask you, what’s more of a ‘people’s car’, a 911 or a WRX?!
Have you ever tried insuring a Porsche?
<B> “I would also suggest that you get some decent performance stats before you boast about them on this BB. And you say a Porsche gets respect...well thats a new one on me.” </B>
That despite its numerous and varied motorsport successes, and its recent selection as one of the top 5 cars of the century, the Porsche 911 is undeserved of respect? That’s a new one!
<B> “A Ferrari gets respect, but a Porsche is just another mass produced German car.” </B>
If a Porsche 911 is a mass-produced car, then what is a WRX?
<B> “They made driving one as safe as driving an Audi after too many 'driving experts' killed themselves through their own lack of driving skills.” </B>
I don’t understand your point. Are you suggesting that because of weight distribution, a 911 is too much for an expert driver to handle? If so, then how do you explain its honorific motorsport history?
<B> “Out of the 30 cars like yours in Oz how many are left still in one piece?” </B>
More than you would probably want to know.
<B> “Matt, the vast majority of Porsche drivers (and any other marque) are sensible.” </B>
Yes, I know.
<B> “However, can I remind/inform you that 2 years ago 2 Porsches allegedly raced each other home from a Porsche event at Highclere Castle and were involved in a fatal road accident. Driving a Porsche doesn't make you a superior driver.” </B>
Compare the number of incidents involving Porsches to the number of incidents involving WRX’s, the stats are available if you want to do some digging.
<B> “Secondly, we in Britain were subjected to an Australian TV series about learning to drive recently. It seemed that as long as you didn't have a near accident, you passed your test.” </B>
Well, I learnt to drive in the United States, where a compulsory school subject still to this day is driver’s education. I can’t vouch for the preparation of young drivers in Australia, although by what I have experienced first hand, and from the recent deaths of several 18-19 year old kids while racing their WRX’s at speeds of up to 180km/h through major thoroughfares in Melbourne, I think I’d have to agree with you!
<B> “Poor guy's just probably had enough of being outdriven by 'cheapo' cars.” </B>
In fact, quite the opposite, but that would be incomprehensible and confounding to you, wouldn't it?
Anyway, thanks guys for partaking in my little cultural experiment, and, for substantiating my expectations. I’ll be sure to present a selection of your BB quotes at the next Porsche Club of Victoria meeting.
Matt Holcomb
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 14-06-2000).]
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 14-06-2000).]
No, my informed decision was based on information I had been garnering for many years while I was a 911 enthusiast waiting to be a 911 owner. I readily acknowledge that there are a few cars that *might* be quicker and better handling cars compared to my particular 911, although having driven several post-98’ WRX’s, I’m quite confident the WRX is not one of them. Although I must concede that a WRX is potent enough to ensure it would be a very close contest. If you believe a WRX is a better handling car by virtue of AWD, then that, I’m afraid, is a highly subjective opinion.
<B> “But my objection to your post was the insinuation that all Impreza drivers are 'hoons' and that we are not worthy of existing on the same roads as our Porsche owning neighbors.” </B>
Look, let’s face the facts. The WRX began life as a car designed expressly to win the WRC. Then the head of product development at Subaru had the idea to offer a more sanitized version of the WRX to the buying public, at a price comfortably within the reach of many, while boasting near-supercar performance. The Impreza is fundamentally a straightforward and benign mass-produced Japanese 4-door sedan and 5-door hatch. But with the added benefits of forced induction and AWD, the Impreza WRX suddenly becomes a tangible and accessible performance prospect to a mass majority because its on-road capabilities are disproportionate to its purchase price. Statistics will prove that a mass market is defined by a very broad and diversified demographic, including many a buyer for whom a WRX is their second or even their first car. I think insurance premiums for the various incarnations of the WRX reflect the diverse profile of the product’s targeted market, and the car’s inherent ability to scoot rather rapidly down the road and tear around corners irrespective of the driver’s skill level.
I think it would pay for any of you to call a number of panel shops and insurance companies to determine just how many WRX’s are involved in accidents, and exactly the types of accidents these WRX's and their drivers are commonly a cause of. I think you may be surprised, then again, you may not.
It’s not that the WRX is not worthy, it’s just that a lot of people aren’t mentally equipped to zestfully punt around a car that demands no more skill than what is required to adeptly fling simulated versions of the same car through circuits made entirely of pixels! The WRX engenders a false sense of security and superiority in a driver not educated or intelligent enough to rationalize such feelings.
<B> “These facts you quote - are they supposed to show us how superior in performance your Porsche is to an Impreza.” </B>
You guys forced me into revealing my hand.
<B> “Because an Impreza will embarass your Porsche on all of those figures (except maybe top speed) and will certainly outhandle and outgrip your Porsche.” </B>
I’m not even going to dignify that with a response.
<B> "You started off by saying we're irresponsible, sounds like you are the irresopnsible one to antagonise so many people." [/b}
It’s more like I hit an exposed nerve. Put it this way, I knew what I was getting into; my motives may have been a little incendiary, but that is not so different to the motives that many have for investing their lives in the WRX phenomenon.
[b] “It certainly costs more to insure a decent Scoob here than it does an ancient descendant of the Volkswagon Beetle.” </B>
Christ, here we go, yet another embittered chump using a very old and inapplicable mode of attack, which to many 911 owners, is actually more of a compliment. But may I ask you, what’s more of a ‘people’s car’, a 911 or a WRX?!
Have you ever tried insuring a Porsche?
<B> “I would also suggest that you get some decent performance stats before you boast about them on this BB. And you say a Porsche gets respect...well thats a new one on me.” </B>
That despite its numerous and varied motorsport successes, and its recent selection as one of the top 5 cars of the century, the Porsche 911 is undeserved of respect? That’s a new one!
<B> “A Ferrari gets respect, but a Porsche is just another mass produced German car.” </B>
If a Porsche 911 is a mass-produced car, then what is a WRX?
<B> “They made driving one as safe as driving an Audi after too many 'driving experts' killed themselves through their own lack of driving skills.” </B>
I don’t understand your point. Are you suggesting that because of weight distribution, a 911 is too much for an expert driver to handle? If so, then how do you explain its honorific motorsport history?
<B> “Out of the 30 cars like yours in Oz how many are left still in one piece?” </B>
More than you would probably want to know.
<B> “Matt, the vast majority of Porsche drivers (and any other marque) are sensible.” </B>
Yes, I know.
<B> “However, can I remind/inform you that 2 years ago 2 Porsches allegedly raced each other home from a Porsche event at Highclere Castle and were involved in a fatal road accident. Driving a Porsche doesn't make you a superior driver.” </B>
Compare the number of incidents involving Porsches to the number of incidents involving WRX’s, the stats are available if you want to do some digging.
<B> “Secondly, we in Britain were subjected to an Australian TV series about learning to drive recently. It seemed that as long as you didn't have a near accident, you passed your test.” </B>
Well, I learnt to drive in the United States, where a compulsory school subject still to this day is driver’s education. I can’t vouch for the preparation of young drivers in Australia, although by what I have experienced first hand, and from the recent deaths of several 18-19 year old kids while racing their WRX’s at speeds of up to 180km/h through major thoroughfares in Melbourne, I think I’d have to agree with you!
<B> “Poor guy's just probably had enough of being outdriven by 'cheapo' cars.” </B>
In fact, quite the opposite, but that would be incomprehensible and confounding to you, wouldn't it?
Anyway, thanks guys for partaking in my little cultural experiment, and, for substantiating my expectations. I’ll be sure to present a selection of your BB quotes at the next Porsche Club of Victoria meeting.
Matt Holcomb
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 14-06-2000).]
[This message has been edited by MPH (edited 14-06-2000).]