Porsche club
14 June 2000, 09:01 AM
#31
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To all the SCOOBY owners. I apologise for my outburst. Sorry.
I just don't like being had a go at for no reason. All I was doing was trying to help organise a really good day out. Why some people get on their high horse for no reason is just beyond me.
Just so that everyone knows I've been inviting ALL performance car clubs. I was most certainly not trying to show up any marque. Hell Porsches are damn nice cars why on earth would I want to show them up?
Cheers
Dave
14 June 2000, 09:03 AM
#32
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Branners said “They made driving one as safe as driving an Audi after too many 'driving experts' killed themselves through their own lack of driving skills.”
MPH Replied - I don’t understand your point. Are you suggesting that because of weight distribution, a 911 is too much for an expert driver to handle? If so, then how do you explain its honorific motorsport history?
We had a guy on the Supra list who failed to understand any point that anybody made, unless it was the same point he was making. Stupidity is no defence, everybody else can clearly see the point. Put in simpler terms Im saying that 911 drivers like you think they can handle a car better than anybody else, until the car bites back. Porsche knew this and have now made the car so safe that Porsche drivers can once again believe they are the best by throwing the car into corners and letting the electronics sort it all out.
I bet your Porsche Club Meets are a right laugh, until you turn up that is. I think I might do a bit of research and see what the rest of your group actually think of you (assuming they even know who you are).
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to practice my typing skills, Im bored with you now so I cant be bothered replying any more.
MPH Replied - I don’t understand your point. Are you suggesting that because of weight distribution, a 911 is too much for an expert driver to handle? If so, then how do you explain its honorific motorsport history?
We had a guy on the Supra list who failed to understand any point that anybody made, unless it was the same point he was making. Stupidity is no defence, everybody else can clearly see the point. Put in simpler terms Im saying that 911 drivers like you think they can handle a car better than anybody else, until the car bites back. Porsche knew this and have now made the car so safe that Porsche drivers can once again believe they are the best by throwing the car into corners and letting the electronics sort it all out.
I bet your Porsche Club Meets are a right laugh, until you turn up that is. I think I might do a bit of research and see what the rest of your group actually think of you (assuming they even know who you are).
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to practice my typing skills, Im bored with you now so I cant be bothered replying any more.
14 June 2000, 09:21 AM
#33
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Matt,
if you pulled your head from your rectum and stopped your sphincter from suffocating you then you might just have been able to see the wood through the trees from the first few posts on this topic.
TC-P1 & 911 3.6 owner.
[This message has been edited by TC (edited 14-06-2000).]
if you pulled your head from your rectum and stopped your sphincter from suffocating you then you might just have been able to see the wood through the trees from the first few posts on this topic.
TC-P1 & 911 3.6 owner.
[This message has been edited by TC (edited 14-06-2000).]
14 June 2000, 10:22 AM
#34
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Matt
I don't understand why you posted to this thread. Did you do this with the express intention of insulting and aggravating the Impreza owners on this bulletin board or did you have a serious point to make?
I think that to post the sort of inflammatory remarks you did and then react in such pompous and self-satisfied manner does not show you as the intelligent and well-educated supercar owner which you (presumably) believe yourself to be. Using overly verbose language, solely to insult people, does not mark you out as someone who took a well researched decision to own one of the most distinctive cars in automotive history. What it does suggest is that you subscribe to the mythical idiom of the Porsche driver as superior.
Inviting people to respond aggresively to overt snobbery and then "threatening" to show "some" of the responses at your next Porsche Club meeting will, hopefully, be met with similar derision by your fellow owners. Maybe you could print out the entire thread so that your associates could gain a more balanced view of the discussion?
I appreciate that maybe Australian Impreza owners are more reckless in their driving habits but you should not make that assumption about everyone who owns one. After all, if you live in Australia that must mean that you are a convict, yes? Stereotyping is not a healthy past-time as it will only foster negative, often ill-informed opinions of something which you plainly know little about.
Why not try reading some of the technical posts on this bulletin board before judging every owner?
[This message has been edited by Richard F (edited 14-06-2000).]
I don't understand why you posted to this thread. Did you do this with the express intention of insulting and aggravating the Impreza owners on this bulletin board or did you have a serious point to make?
I think that to post the sort of inflammatory remarks you did and then react in such pompous and self-satisfied manner does not show you as the intelligent and well-educated supercar owner which you (presumably) believe yourself to be. Using overly verbose language, solely to insult people, does not mark you out as someone who took a well researched decision to own one of the most distinctive cars in automotive history. What it does suggest is that you subscribe to the mythical idiom of the Porsche driver as superior.
Inviting people to respond aggresively to overt snobbery and then "threatening" to show "some" of the responses at your next Porsche Club meeting will, hopefully, be met with similar derision by your fellow owners. Maybe you could print out the entire thread so that your associates could gain a more balanced view of the discussion?
I appreciate that maybe Australian Impreza owners are more reckless in their driving habits but you should not make that assumption about everyone who owns one. After all, if you live in Australia that must mean that you are a convict, yes? Stereotyping is not a healthy past-time as it will only foster negative, often ill-informed opinions of something which you plainly know little about.
Why not try reading some of the technical posts on this bulletin board before judging every owner?
[This message has been edited by Richard F (edited 14-06-2000).]
14 June 2000, 11:44 AM
#35
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Matt,
Could you explain your last sentence:
"Anyway, thanks guys for partaking in my little cultural experiment, and, for substantiating my expectations. I’ll be sure to present a selection of your BB quotes at the next Porsche Club of Victoria meeting."
Would I be right in thinking that you decided to insult Subaru drivers so that when they responded in a negative manner you take this as confirmation of your bigotted point of view, and show it to your fellow bigots as confirmation that everything you assert about us is correct?
If this was your intention, congratulations, you have succeeded. Do you have nothing better to do with your time than log on to BBS's to randomly insult people you have never met?
Such supercilious postings only confirm the stereotype that people in the UK have of Porsche drivers. You have stated that your car is no more expensive than an Impreza. Is it not possible that many people on this board could afford an '74 Carrera, but chose a faster car more suited to day to day driving in the UK? Or perhaps there is a "loony filter" that prevents Subaru drivers from purchasing a 911. You are pitiable.
KF.
Could you explain your last sentence:
"Anyway, thanks guys for partaking in my little cultural experiment, and, for substantiating my expectations. I’ll be sure to present a selection of your BB quotes at the next Porsche Club of Victoria meeting."
Would I be right in thinking that you decided to insult Subaru drivers so that when they responded in a negative manner you take this as confirmation of your bigotted point of view, and show it to your fellow bigots as confirmation that everything you assert about us is correct?
If this was your intention, congratulations, you have succeeded. Do you have nothing better to do with your time than log on to BBS's to randomly insult people you have never met?
Such supercilious postings only confirm the stereotype that people in the UK have of Porsche drivers. You have stated that your car is no more expensive than an Impreza. Is it not possible that many people on this board could afford an '74 Carrera, but chose a faster car more suited to day to day driving in the UK? Or perhaps there is a "loony filter" that prevents Subaru drivers from purchasing a 911. You are pitiable.
KF.
14 June 2000, 01:03 PM
#36
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911 guy,
Wow, thanx for reading my post. I can honestly say I was honoured to read your kind words of response.
Your high level of gramatical articulation is like breath of fresh air on here, and those who take your highly imformed rhetoric as arrogance should surely look again.
Personally I'm a humble Impreza owner with aspirations to own such a car as the 911, maybe even one as old as yours. The excitement of a huge rear wheel powerslide is only a dream for me, you are indeed a very lucky chap.
A very good friend of mine owns a 1990 944S2, which many regard to be slightly superior in handling to the 911 based upon its almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution. I, however, do not believe this as my friend is nowhere near intellectually superior enough to own such a vehicle.
Thanx again for helping to educate this board.
Wow, thanx for reading my post. I can honestly say I was honoured to read your kind words of response.
Your high level of gramatical articulation is like breath of fresh air on here, and those who take your highly imformed rhetoric as arrogance should surely look again.
Personally I'm a humble Impreza owner with aspirations to own such a car as the 911, maybe even one as old as yours. The excitement of a huge rear wheel powerslide is only a dream for me, you are indeed a very lucky chap.
A very good friend of mine owns a 1990 944S2, which many regard to be slightly superior in handling to the 911 based upon its almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution. I, however, do not believe this as my friend is nowhere near intellectually superior enough to own such a vehicle.
Thanx again for helping to educate this board.
14 June 2000, 01:51 PM
#37
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Matt/MPH,
Let me know which BBs you post to in your own neck of the woods, there's a good chap, I rather like the idea of a return game of this annoy and insult a group of people in another country just for a giggle game.
Your explanation sounds very much like a hasty "get me out of this argument whilst saving as much face as possible" kind of excuse... but maybe I'm wrong.
Personally, I am always quite impressed at anyone who can drive an old 911 fairly swiftly and safely. I know I would never be able to justify buying a car whose engine was in exactly the wrong place for safety and stability's sake.
Please don't assume this means I know nothing about driving, that would simply be _another_ insult to my intelligence on your behalf.
Moray
Let me know which BBs you post to in your own neck of the woods, there's a good chap, I rather like the idea of a return game of this annoy and insult a group of people in another country just for a giggle game.
Your explanation sounds very much like a hasty "get me out of this argument whilst saving as much face as possible" kind of excuse... but maybe I'm wrong.
Personally, I am always quite impressed at anyone who can drive an old 911 fairly swiftly and safely. I know I would never be able to justify buying a car whose engine was in exactly the wrong place for safety and stability's sake.
Please don't assume this means I know nothing about driving, that would simply be _another_ insult to my intelligence on your behalf. Moray
14 June 2000, 02:10 PM
#38
Matt,
Now you have explained your motivation in posting, it is clear that you really *are* an ar$e!
Yes, please go away and take your amateur psychology with you. I very much doubt you know what emotional intelligence is and therefore suggest you look it up in a psychobabble book - you could do with some!
Suresh
Now you have explained your motivation in posting, it is clear that you really *are* an ar$e!
Yes, please go away and take your amateur psychology with you. I very much doubt you know what emotional intelligence is and therefore suggest you look it up in a psychobabble book - you could do with some!
Suresh
14 June 2000, 02:12 PM
#39
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MPH
Hello you arrogant ****e. I wish you the poorest of health to you and your family, and sincerely hope you loose control (not hard for someone like you), crash and burn to death. The world will be a better place without snobbish mindless aussie ****es like you.
G'day cobber
Hello you arrogant ****e. I wish you the poorest of health to you and your family, and sincerely hope you loose control (not hard for someone like you), crash and burn to death. The world will be a better place without snobbish mindless aussie ****es like you.
G'day cobber
14 June 2000, 03:29 PM
#40
Why didn't he just say that Scoobies are for girls who can't drive and rwd is for us proper men, that would have saved the rest of the crap 
LOL
Mike
PS. And I thought I was a tosser!
LOL
Mike
PS. And I thought I was a tosser
!
15 June 2000, 12:25 AM
#43
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chuckster:
<B>Matt states that he wanted to research whether the inter-marque rivalry that WRX owners exhibit in Melbourne has spread around the globe.
Instead of doing a search on Porsche in this BBS, or quietly observing the posts, he decides to post an intentionally inflammatory statement to produce a reaction.
And he did, some wonder. In doing so what does he hope to accomplish? WRX owners, or indeed any of the other car enthusiasts reading this who may have had no strong feelings either way, may have become polarised against 911 drivers now. Those who already held the impression that 911 drivers felt they were superior will have had their beliefs reinforced, and neutrals such as myself have had an open forum for debate, which is always fun, but ultimately unconstructive. Net impact? Negative for the car enthusiast community I believe.
Good job Matt, I'll bet Porsche sales and marketing would appreciate the efforts of an extremist such as yourself.
Charles[/quote]
Charles,
A long time ago extremists used to by (new) Porsches
I don't believe Porsche 911’s to be superior, not at all. I just think the older examples help create superior drivers. If that makes the car superior, then that's fine by me!
My original reply was inflammatory in the sense that it was deceivingly antagonistic. In other words, the bait was taken. If my initial reply to the topic had been overtly playful in its construction, then it would have been truly unproductive!
Matt
<B>Matt states that he wanted to research whether the inter-marque rivalry that WRX owners exhibit in Melbourne has spread around the globe.
Instead of doing a search on Porsche in this BBS, or quietly observing the posts, he decides to post an intentionally inflammatory statement to produce a reaction.
And he did, some wonder. In doing so what does he hope to accomplish? WRX owners, or indeed any of the other car enthusiasts reading this who may have had no strong feelings either way, may have become polarised against 911 drivers now. Those who already held the impression that 911 drivers felt they were superior will have had their beliefs reinforced, and neutrals such as myself have had an open forum for debate, which is always fun, but ultimately unconstructive. Net impact? Negative for the car enthusiast community I believe.
Good job Matt, I'll bet Porsche sales and marketing would appreciate the efforts of an extremist such as yourself.
Charles[/quote]
Charles,
A long time ago extremists used to by (new) Porsches
I don't believe Porsche 911’s to be superior, not at all. I just think the older examples help create superior drivers. If that makes the car superior, then that's fine by me!
My original reply was inflammatory in the sense that it was deceivingly antagonistic. In other words, the bait was taken. If my initial reply to the topic had been overtly playful in its construction, then it would have been truly unproductive!
Matt
15 June 2000, 01:49 AM
#45
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Yeah..... Mike for President! Oops... Prime minister.
Good to see sense of humor is still around.
Now lads, the 'porsha' brigade have had their fun. So run along now to the RS owners group
Image of Porsha owner trying to go round a WRX
Good to see sense of humor is still around.
Now lads, the 'porsha' brigade have had their fun. So run along now to the RS owners group
Image of Porsha owner trying to go round a WRX
15 June 2000, 04:07 AM
#46
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Now you're starting to generalise. I'm an Aussie and I would like to dissociate myself from Benny's generalisation, and Mats impression.
I was recently in the Targa Tasmania, where the most common marque was Porsche, and met many friendly, positive Porsche owners who did not carry on like Matt. I was also recently at a combined club track day at Phillip Island (home of the Aussie 500 cc bike GP) and parked next to a guy in a 2.7 911 in the paddock. He was a genuinely nice guy who was interested in my WRX, as I was interested in his 911. We were running in the same sessions and he was very complimentary when we came back in.
He was a member of the local Porsche club, and had some adverse comments about some of the members. Maybe he had met Mat Holcomb.
One of the instructors told him his car was dangerously unstable in the rear and he needed to do something about the suspension.
I guess we should have all treated Mat with the contempt he deserved. As Mum said, don't encourage them!
Aussie drivers are generally poor, mainly due to lack of concentration because the roads are wider and generally quieter than English roads. And the testing procedure does encourage learning by rote, without actually understanding any of the principles involved. However I remember a British series on learning to drive, and a woman who failed her test 17 times (or something ridiculous) before passing. The last shot of the series was her pulling strght into the fast lane of a motorway without looking while her husband went (not so quietly) insane in the passenger seat.
I guess it takes all kinds in all countries.
I was recently in the Targa Tasmania, where the most common marque was Porsche, and met many friendly, positive Porsche owners who did not carry on like Matt. I was also recently at a combined club track day at Phillip Island (home of the Aussie 500 cc bike GP) and parked next to a guy in a 2.7 911 in the paddock. He was a genuinely nice guy who was interested in my WRX, as I was interested in his 911. We were running in the same sessions and he was very complimentary when we came back in.
He was a member of the local Porsche club, and had some adverse comments about some of the members. Maybe he had met Mat Holcomb.
One of the instructors told him his car was dangerously unstable in the rear and he needed to do something about the suspension.
I guess we should have all treated Mat with the contempt he deserved. As Mum said, don't encourage them!
Aussie drivers are generally poor, mainly due to lack of concentration because the roads are wider and generally quieter than English roads. And the testing procedure does encourage learning by rote, without actually understanding any of the principles involved. However I remember a British series on learning to drive, and a woman who failed her test 17 times (or something ridiculous) before passing. The last shot of the series was her pulling strght into the fast lane of a motorway without looking while her husband went (not so quietly) insane in the passenger seat.
I guess it takes all kinds in all countries.
15 June 2000, 09:19 AM
#48
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Geoff,
It seems like you’ve formed your impressions of me by rote!
Like several members of this BB, I don't think you fully understand the intention (of which was posthumously stated) behind my ‘contributions’ to this topic, hence my need to return to this topic and reply to your malefic, and obviously antagonised aspersions.
"He was a genuinely nice guy who was interested in my WRX, as I was interested in his 911. We were running in the same sessions and he was very complimentary when we came back in."
What if this guy had not expressed interest in your car, and had not complimented you? Would you have then thought of him as a *****, or a snob? Does it automatically mean he’s a nice guy just because he makes a fuss over your WRX? Did you return the compliment?
I have made what I feel to be a considered, rational and accurate judgment on the vast majority of WRX-drivers as evidenced by their on-road behaviour in a certain British penal colony. Now, there is every chance this phenomenon is exclusive to Australia, but as evidenced by the online behaviour of members of this predominantly UK-centric BB in and around this topic, I'm pretty well certain that this is a universal crisis.
Geoff, you may or may not remember this, but in 1998 Trevor Amery, the head of Subaru Cars Australia took it upon himself to take out a full page ad in The Age (a major Melbourne newspaper), essentially urging all WRX drivers to declare war on the Porsche 911 brigade. By Amery taking out this ad, and by arrogantly claiming to be the authoritative voice of all WRX owners, he subsequently turned this once friendly, but curious underground rivalry into a political and controversial mainstream issue. Major motoring rags in Oz then grabbed Amery’s baton for themselves, which in turn encouraged WRX drivers to take the issue to the streets, hunting for 911 scalps.
For the strict purpose of trying to deconstruct my understanding of this now combustive rivalry, I have had to make what I believe is at once: a considered generalisation; I’m not personally attacking or accusing individual WRX owners! Now this applies to everyone, I don’t know any of you, and you don’t know me. Is that clear? Please try and objectify what you subjectively feel toward my opinions, for Matt Holcomb is not the product of his opinions in this case, as my interest in Porsche is just that, an interest, a fragment of my being.
Matt Holcomb
P.S. Geoff, was that you who tried to harass me early this afternoon (Thursday) on Whitehorse Rd, Balwyn?!
It seems like you’ve formed your impressions of me by rote!
Like several members of this BB, I don't think you fully understand the intention (of which was posthumously stated) behind my ‘contributions’ to this topic, hence my need to return to this topic and reply to your malefic, and obviously antagonised aspersions.
"He was a genuinely nice guy who was interested in my WRX, as I was interested in his 911. We were running in the same sessions and he was very complimentary when we came back in."
What if this guy had not expressed interest in your car, and had not complimented you? Would you have then thought of him as a *****, or a snob? Does it automatically mean he’s a nice guy just because he makes a fuss over your WRX? Did you return the compliment?
I have made what I feel to be a considered, rational and accurate judgment on the vast majority of WRX-drivers as evidenced by their on-road behaviour in a certain British penal colony. Now, there is every chance this phenomenon is exclusive to Australia, but as evidenced by the online behaviour of members of this predominantly UK-centric BB in and around this topic, I'm pretty well certain that this is a universal crisis.
Geoff, you may or may not remember this, but in 1998 Trevor Amery, the head of Subaru Cars Australia took it upon himself to take out a full page ad in The Age (a major Melbourne newspaper), essentially urging all WRX drivers to declare war on the Porsche 911 brigade. By Amery taking out this ad, and by arrogantly claiming to be the authoritative voice of all WRX owners, he subsequently turned this once friendly, but curious underground rivalry into a political and controversial mainstream issue. Major motoring rags in Oz then grabbed Amery’s baton for themselves, which in turn encouraged WRX drivers to take the issue to the streets, hunting for 911 scalps.
For the strict purpose of trying to deconstruct my understanding of this now combustive rivalry, I have had to make what I believe is at once: a considered generalisation; I’m not personally attacking or accusing individual WRX owners! Now this applies to everyone, I don’t know any of you, and you don’t know me. Is that clear? Please try and objectify what you subjectively feel toward my opinions, for Matt Holcomb is not the product of his opinions in this case, as my interest in Porsche is just that, an interest, a fragment of my being.
Matt Holcomb
P.S. Geoff, was that you who tried to harass me early this afternoon (Thursday) on Whitehorse Rd, Balwyn?!
15 June 2000, 09:30 AM
#49
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>I don't think you fully understand the intention (of which was posthumously stated) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
By that I take it that you have died....
Which means that as a fellow Australian, now living in the USA and a member of SIDC, I don't have to put up with any more of your drivel.
Aaah, what a wonderful place the "global village" is.. Seems the "Global village idiot" can now type..
Richard
By that I take it that you have died....
Which means that as a fellow Australian, now living in the USA and a member of SIDC, I don't have to put up with any more of your drivel.
Aaah, what a wonderful place the "global village" is.. Seems the "Global village idiot" can now type..
Richard
15 June 2000, 09:33 AM
#50
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MPH
Q How do you tell if an aussie sh1te has been in your garden?
A Your rubbish bin has been rumaged through and your dog is pregnant
Please keep on driving your ancient heap as soon or later you WILL have that crash. I am just sorry I wont be there to see you burn
Q How do you tell if an aussie sh1te has been in your garden?
A Your rubbish bin has been rumaged through and your dog is pregnant
Please keep on driving your ancient heap as soon or later you WILL have that crash. I am just sorry I wont be there to see you burn
15 June 2000, 09:56 AM
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MPH, old chap, if you can state something posthumously you're one of very few people who's managed to come back from the dead.
Lazarus and Jesus are believed to have a monopoly on this, but 911 owners as well? No wonder you guys think you walk on water.
Nick
Lazarus and Jesus are believed to have a monopoly on this, but 911 owners as well? No wonder you guys think you walk on water.
Nick
15 June 2000, 09:57 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by benny:
<B>MPH
Q How do you tell if an aussie sh1te has been in your garden?
A Your rubbish bin has been rumaged through and your dog is pregnant
Please keep on driving your ancient heap as soon or later you WILL have that crash. I am just sorry I wont be there to see you burn [/quote]
Is that Benny as in Benny Hill?!
<B>MPH
Q How do you tell if an aussie sh1te has been in your garden?
A Your rubbish bin has been rumaged through and your dog is pregnant
Please keep on driving your ancient heap as soon or later you WILL have that crash. I am just sorry I wont be there to see you burn [/quote]
Is that Benny as in Benny Hill?!
15 June 2000, 10:06 AM
#53
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by NickF:
<B>MPH, old chap, if you can state something posthumously you're one of very few people who's managed to come back from the dead.
Lazarus and Jesus are believed to have a monopoly on this, but 911 owners as well? No wonder you guys think you walk on water.
Nick
[/quote]
Nicholas,
I thought it was an appropriate choice of words, given that most of you guys behave like Romans
<B>MPH, old chap, if you can state something posthumously you're one of very few people who's managed to come back from the dead.
Lazarus and Jesus are believed to have a monopoly on this, but 911 owners as well? No wonder you guys think you walk on water.
Nick
[/quote]
Nicholas,
I thought it was an appropriate choice of words, given that most of you guys behave like Romans
15 June 2000, 10:13 AM
#54
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MPH,
We're like Romans? So we give the world central heating, build a wall between England and Scotland AND provide the material for an excellent film starring Cameron Crowe.
Can't be all bad then!
Nick
We're like Romans? So we give the world central heating, build a wall between England and Scotland AND provide the material for an excellent film starring Cameron Crowe.
Can't be all bad then!
Nick
15 June 2000, 10:38 AM
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Matt states that he wanted to research whether the inter-marque rivalry that WRX owners exhibit in Melbourne has spread around the globe.
Instead of doing a search on Porsche in this BBS, or quietly observing the posts, he decides to post an intentionally inflammatory statement to produce a reaction.
And he did, some wonder. In doing so what does he hope to accomplish? WRX owners, or indeed any of the other car enthusiasts reading this who may have had no strong feelings either way, may have become polarised against 911 drivers now. Those who already held the impression that 911 drivers felt they were superior will have had their beliefs reinforced, and neutrals such as myself have had an open forum for debate, which is always fun, but ultimately unconstructive. Net impact? Negative for the car enthusiast community I believe.
Good job Matt, I'll bet Porsche sales and marketing would appreciate the efforts of an extremist such as yourself.
Charles
Instead of doing a search on Porsche in this BBS, or quietly observing the posts, he decides to post an intentionally inflammatory statement to produce a reaction.
And he did, some wonder. In doing so what does he hope to accomplish? WRX owners, or indeed any of the other car enthusiasts reading this who may have had no strong feelings either way, may have become polarised against 911 drivers now. Those who already held the impression that 911 drivers felt they were superior will have had their beliefs reinforced, and neutrals such as myself have had an open forum for debate, which is always fun, but ultimately unconstructive. Net impact? Negative for the car enthusiast community I believe.
Good job Matt, I'll bet Porsche sales and marketing would appreciate the efforts of an extremist such as yourself.
Charles
15 June 2000, 11:45 AM
#58
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Beef
I think if you check your history, then the British Empire (which included a certain antipodean country) was the biggest the world has seen so far (Excluding Bill Gates's of course )
Paul
I think if you check your history, then the British Empire (which included a certain antipodean country) was the biggest the world has seen so far (Excluding Bill Gates's of course
)Paul
15 June 2000, 02:42 PM
#59
Matt,
Now you really are showing your ignorance. It is absolutely impossible for ANYONE to have an objective opinion. This is a contradictory term. Everyone's opinion, by it's very nature of being an "opinion" is therefore subjective, as in it will be drawn from that person's phsyche and experiences in life.
As to your highly over-rated opinion of an early Porsche 911, I have had the pleasure in being in the passenger seat of a totally road legal E30 M3 (old four cylinder model - 215bhp) with road tyres, standard suspension etc which matched a 3.6 911 Carrera Cup car around Brands Hatch Indy circuit. The Porsche was stripped out with a full cage and had race suspension (but road tyres). On the straights the Porsche would pull away a couple of car lengths, but on the corners the M3 would be all over him looking for a way passed (but not able to due to lack of power). Even the handling of an old M3 is superior to a 911! You could see the Porsche driver struggling for grip as the car was squirming and he was having to make adjustments at the wheel "battling" with the car. However, for the M3 driver the poise of the chassis was such that the car had no vices and could be driven that much faster through the corners. I know that you will respond by saying that the 911 is the more rewarding difficult car to drive - that may be. BUT it IS slower and an average driver in a Scooby could waster a GOOD driver in a 911.
Several months later, I had the same sort of experience in several different Imprezas at Donington. The way they handled reminded me of the M3 (as in you could chose from understeer or oversteer or four wheel drift). This makes it undisputably a better handling car than any 911 before the current water-cooled models. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Now you may think my opinion is biased because I have an Impreza. But no, I am a Cosworth owner and would only have a Scooby as an everyday car, as to me they are just too capable and easy to get the best from it. In fact the only place to really exploit an Impreza and explore the limits of the handling are on a track. On the road, you would have to be playing silly bergers to get it to remotely mis-behave (in the dry) and can comfortably do speeds that would have a 911 driver crapping himself.
Obviously with that in mind, I can assure you that a Scooby WRX will annialate your car on the road or track, because due to the laws of physics a WRX can change direction very quickly without the car trying to punt you backwards through a hedge!
So to sum up, a WRX is a better handling car, but a powerful rear wheel drive car (including a Porsche) may be ultimately more rewarding to drive to you or me, because we like to be frightened by trying to tame an evil beast. However, that wouldn't stop us from being kicked into touch by a well driven Scooby on the right track. So at the end of the day, you pays ya money and makes ya choice.
Mike
PS. My car would eat a 911 Turbo for breakfast, as it has a power to weight ratio of over 300bhp per tonne.
Now you really are showing your ignorance. It is absolutely impossible for ANYONE to have an objective opinion. This is a contradictory term. Everyone's opinion, by it's very nature of being an "opinion" is therefore subjective, as in it will be drawn from that person's phsyche and experiences in life.
As to your highly over-rated opinion of an early Porsche 911, I have had the pleasure in being in the passenger seat of a totally road legal E30 M3 (old four cylinder model - 215bhp) with road tyres, standard suspension etc which matched a 3.6 911 Carrera Cup car around Brands Hatch Indy circuit. The Porsche was stripped out with a full cage and had race suspension (but road tyres). On the straights the Porsche would pull away a couple of car lengths, but on the corners the M3 would be all over him looking for a way passed (but not able to due to lack of power). Even the handling of an old M3 is superior to a 911! You could see the Porsche driver struggling for grip as the car was squirming and he was having to make adjustments at the wheel "battling" with the car. However, for the M3 driver the poise of the chassis was such that the car had no vices and could be driven that much faster through the corners. I know that you will respond by saying that the 911 is the more rewarding difficult car to drive - that may be. BUT it IS slower and an average driver in a Scooby could waster a GOOD driver in a 911.
Several months later, I had the same sort of experience in several different Imprezas at Donington. The way they handled reminded me of the M3 (as in you could chose from understeer or oversteer or four wheel drift). This makes it undisputably a better handling car than any 911 before the current water-cooled models. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Now you may think my opinion is biased because I have an Impreza. But no, I am a Cosworth owner and would only have a Scooby as an everyday car, as to me they are just too capable and easy to get the best from it. In fact the only place to really exploit an Impreza and explore the limits of the handling are on a track. On the road, you would have to be playing silly bergers
to get it to remotely mis-behave (in the dry) and can comfortably do speeds that would have a 911 driver crapping himself. Obviously with that in mind, I can assure you that a Scooby WRX will annialate your car on the road or track, because due to the laws of physics a WRX can change direction very quickly without the car trying to punt you backwards through a hedge!
So to sum up, a WRX is a better handling car, but a powerful rear wheel drive car (including a Porsche) may be ultimately more rewarding to drive to you or me, because we like to be frightened by trying to tame an evil beast. However, that wouldn't stop us from being kicked into touch by a well driven Scooby on the right track. So at the end of the day, you pays ya money and makes ya choice.
Mike
PS. My car would eat a 911 Turbo for breakfast
, as it has a power to weight ratio of over 300bhp per tonne.