chowy

Hi, I'm new to this site.

I currently drive a 7 month old BMW M3 and due to personal changes I am looking for a cheaper car circa £15K.

My short list is as follows - flame suit on - Leon Cupra and Cupra R, Honda Civic Type R, Clio 182, Peugeot 206 180, Mini Cooper S (the latter 3 only if I can get away with the lack of space as I have 2 kids 4 & 8).

I am also very tempted by the Subaru WRX as I have found new EU imports for £16.5K

My question to all of you are -

1. Are Imported WRX's the same as UK cars?
2. Can the standard WRX be chipped to give better performance cheaply? Will other bits need upgrading i.e. brakes, suspension etc.. to cope with extra power (not talkin silly power maybe 15% hike)?
3. I know most of you will be biased but - what do you like and don't like about the Standard WRX?
4. Can you get good discounts anywhere UK or import on these cars?

Any comments will be most welcome.

OllyK

Can't comment on EU too much, but for a UK WRX you can get the PPP without affecting the warranty (any other power mods will) for circa £1600 which will give IIRC an extra 30 bhp or so which is around the 15% mark.

I don't think you can have PPP on an EU model. Shouldn't need to upgrade any other parts for that level of mod, you can go for the Pro Drive Handling Pack if you want, not sure if it is the same but on my MY00 that was, quick shift, springs, dampers and 17" alloys for £1600 or so again.

I had a 206 GTi standard and test drove the 180 and was rather dissapointed, I appreciate it was new but it certainly didn't seem to have the urgency of the old one. Nice seats though! Parents have a Cupra, nice bit of kit, quick and well kitted out.

Gutmann pug

Olly is right ...

With ppp you can have around 265BHP which makes it about the same as an STi. The trouble is once you have that you will want an STi. Go for one in the first place and you will be happy. 6 Speed, better suspension set up, more scope for power etc etc.

If its the WRX you want and you dont buy a UK car you cannot get PPP without taking the car to its country of origin.

I came from a 172 clio into an STi. Wouldnt have bought the WRX coz it just didnt feel much different than the 172 IMHO.

corradoboy

Are the imports you mention from Motorpoint or Tradesales? If so, then they are European, but not EU (yet) imports and thus are not covered by the pan-EU 3yr warranty. They are usually sourced in Malta & Cyprus which are currently not in the EU (but will be very soon, opening up a whole new can of worms). The spec is basically the same as UK except for no underseal (£100ish), no alarm (cat1 is essential, £400ish), no locking nuts (£30ish), additional 2yrs of warranty from supplier £500???, and worth jack IMHO). There used to be some talk of insurers not playing ball due to the seats not having side airbags, but as UK STi's are the same then that argument doesn't hold water. Also check out all the hidden on the road costs.
If they are from the EU, double check the price. Many internet importers quote their prices from when the € was weaker. At the moment, most EU imports come in around £17.8k which is not a good enough incentive when with minimal haggling you can drive away from a UK dealer for £18.3k.
On the performance issue, there is some sour grape red tape which states that the PPP (270bhp for £1600) must be fitted in the country of origin. As this is the only warranty friendly mod, it ties your hands somewhat.
For £15k you might find some sub 20k UK WRX's coming onto the 2nd hand market, or you could chance it with a non-EU import and TEK3/Afterburner it to realise around 290bhp, but if it goes bang it will be very costly. I recently bought a UK MY03 WRX with PPP and Tracker for £16.3k on a 52 plate with 20k.
Another consideration is that your motivation is to run a "cheaper" car. Bear in mind that Scoobs are far from economical, and cost a bundle to insure. In which case you may be better off with the Leon or Civic, which will be about as quick on dry straighter roads.

Hope this helps, CB.

chowy

Unfortunately I have set myself a budget and would be pushing it just buying an EU WRX. and if I chip it - it would be a cheap upgrade if there is one i.e. no more than £500. Don't want to go the used car route as I may have to keep this for some time!

I guess the question is what's the standard one like? What do people not like about ownership, if anything?

I have driven a 172 several times and have enjoyed the experience but the thing that is putting me of is space as it's a performance bargain!! I'm not suprised that you say that the WRX doesn't feel that much quicker than a 172. I also enjoyed 172 more than Civic type R and Cooper S but that test drive was over a year ago and my memory is fading!

chowy

Yes it was Motorpoint!

Thanks for the info on Non EU corradoboy! This might make a difference on my decision!

Has anyone here purchased WRX from Motorpoint / Trade-Sales?

corradoboy

Go test a WRX, and see if they also have a PPP'd model too and form your own conclusions. You aren't gonna get a new WRX with a UK warranty for less than £18k, so it's up to you whether you chance a cheap non-EU import. Subaru dealers mightn't even service it, but there are plenty of independants now.

Here's an idea. Have a look at the Skoda Octavia. IIRC it comes with 185bhp (and can cheaply acheive much more ) and 4WD (on some). OK, it looks like a taxi, but it's a good (Audi A3 chassis, Golf mechanicals) solid quick car. New OTR prices around £15k.

MadMark

March 2003 UK WRX's are now down to £16 for one with 12K on the clock - have one of those - still 2 yrs of warranty left etc.

Oh and my g/f has a 172 and mine is miles faster / more comfortable etc. With an ECU or some exhaust mods - and "03" shape will produce 260-280bhp easily ......

Speedmeister

The Cooper S I took for a test drive, with 4k on the clock was disappointingly sluggish, XSively hard and EVERYTHING inside rattled. I think it had the optional 17" wheels.
I bought the WRX and haven't looked back. In another league performance wise and a refined, non rattling every-day family car to boot!
You know you want to!!

chowy

Octavia RS - I would consider too! I assume these can be chipped to produce 200+bhp cheaply and undetected for warranty etc.. Not sure how they handle though?

Suprisingly - I've never driven a scooby - maybe cause the nearest dealer is 30 miles away!

I guess the WRX, like the Leon Cupra R (£18K) I will need to test drive these to see if it's well worthwile to go above my budget!

Barmyclown

So what you guys are saying is if the car is sourced in the EU, it has to be taken back to the country of origin, to get the PPP done. But what happens if it is a UK spec car. I got mine imported in 2002. As far as I can see , if it`s a Uk car. And it is on the the vehicle database that the dealers use; to confirm the car is a uk, then i should be able to get it done here.

corradoboy

Barmy, as I said in my post, "Sour grape red tape." They're just trying to create another reason not to buy an EU import. There's no logical reason why not, and some UK dealers have been known to order in the PPP using a UK chassis number and then fit it onto an EU car. Although this potentially could invalidate the warranty too, perhaps?

Gutmann pug

I think the PPP thing regarding country of origin has something to do with the warranty and who pays for what...... If its a Type UK car then you can get PPP here if it aint then you cant.
I believe prodrive take some of the PPP cash and the rest goes into a pot to pay for warantty claims etc ..... dont quote me on that though coz it may be wrong.

If you have set your heart on a WRX get one, dont worry too much about it being a Euro import, you can still get three year waranttys on those, get yourself a full de-cat and once a year when its service time swap it back for the standard article if you like.

A good full de-cat will probably give you another 20 - 30BHP

FrenchBoy

Dont underestimate how thirsty the WRX is. You'll be lucky to get more than 22mpg from it. That combined with the fact that they run like a bag of nails on anything other than optimax and the high insurance make them a very expensive car to run.

I also came from a Clio 172. It was a great car, very quick in a straight line and the boot is quite spacious for a little hatchback.

The new Clio 182 is out now and had a rave review in Evo mag last month. You can pick them up for just over 13k on the road. Mine never did anything less than 30mpg (even when caning it). and they are insurance group 16 (might be 17 now though).

IMO the performance of the Mini/Cupra is very dissapointing and the CTR looks too much like a Common Chavved up Racer.

The thing that makes the WRX is the handling, it sticks to the road like **** to a blanket. Test drive one (but make sure you take it out on some twisty back roads)and then make your mind up.

Frenchboy (03WRXppp)

(get the new edition of evo magazine it has a really cool article comparing the new clio 182 with the CTR and Mini Cooper S. The article is fairly emphatic about the 182!!)

chowy

Funny you should talk about Evo mag as it came through the letter box this morning but I didn't open it!

Clio looks fave at the mo as it's just soooooo cheap and sooooo great value for money!

I just need to check if it's big enough for my needs?

FrenchBoy

Just seen Car magazine in Sainbury's at lunch and they have a similar article except with the Cupra. Again they went for the Clio, so it does seem to be a preety sorted hatch!

I'm starting to sound like some sort of Renault salesman aren't I?