ST17 & P1
27 June 2003, 10:33 PM
#1
I own an STi7. Got the opportunity to drive a P1 today and thought I would share my experience with you.
The P1 I drove is one of the earlier ones, with serious bhp on tap (alegedly). Sat in it and the first thing that hit me was a sense of nostalgia as the interior reminded me of my old MY00 wagon. Only difference is that the P1 seats have some sort of inflating device for making the bolster harder (I think).
Turned the key, first time start, throaty burble from the full decat system, but engine running lumpy. No worries, engine's cold, let's give it some TLC and see what it can do.
Eased it out onto the road and for the first 10 minutes I simply coasted around to get things warmed up and to familiarise myself with the car, gearbox (5 speed as opposed to the 6 I am used to), the brakes, steering reaction, balance & dynamics of the car, etc.
The brake pads had been upgraded (not sure to what). However what I do know is that it frightened the sh'ite out of me when I pressed the stoppers for the very first time and nothing happened for the first few seconds. Got the hang of it though; pads had to be warmed up first to get them to work.
Get to my favourite piece of road, nailed it and.......that's odd!
No shove in the back, no kick in the ball$, no excitement really. Felt almost like I was driving my old wagon, except for the racket of the exhaust.
I was so surprised by the lack of kick and instantaneous oomph that I questioned my companion quite closely re the alleged high power outpu figure. This seemed to be non existent in a real world scenario. I was actually expecting this car to feel quicker, tauter, better than my STi7 but it did not. Absolutely not at all!
Get to three figures eventually (remember, this was on a private road) and everything starts to rattle. Ummm, not quite the driving experience I was expecting. Brakes worked this time though as plenty hot by the time I had to haul us in.
Gave it a boot along some twisty stuff and it hung on ok, but again nothing to write home about. I eventually returned the car, said my thank you's and left.
Driving back home in the STi7 I reflected on my experience. There is absolutely no way that the example P1 I drove was quicker, better handling, punchier, or a better driving experience than the St17. It failed on all counts.
Now there's possibly 2 reasons for this; a= the example I drove was a poor one (only had circa 45K miles on it though, with FFS) or more to the point: b= Subaru have moved on significantly along the development road in recent times and, despite the poor press re the aesthetics, have created a better car in the bugeye and the latest iteration car than anything previous to these.
Stepping on the power in the 7 snapped my head back and hurtled me to the horizon in double quick time. Oh shi'ite!!! I'm grinning all the way home!
At serious speeds the car was rattle free. Brakes worked first time every time (unless you push it into ABS territory) and the driving experience.....YES Madame, more please!
In conclusion therefore, the P1 is certainly an icon of its time, doing all its owners proud. However, based on my experience of having driven the cars mentioned above, we should give credit to Fuji Industries for moving the performance & build envelopes along, even though they may not have taken much note of the adverse comments in their styling clinics before releasing the bugeye in the first place!
Apart from the perhaps questionable aesthetics of the newer models (to some eyes, not mine)there is no doubt in my mind that the newer car is the new kid on the block.
Remember this thread is NOT a knock at old shape/P1 cars. I am simply sharing an experience with you where I have worked very, very hard at presenting an unbiased view.
I fully expected the driving experience of the P1 to be head and shoulders above the Sti7. To my surprise it was not.
Hope this is useful to those who have never stepped into a P1 and wondered how it might compare to an Sti7.
Cheers.
WB
The P1 I drove is one of the earlier ones, with serious bhp on tap (alegedly). Sat in it and the first thing that hit me was a sense of nostalgia as the interior reminded me of my old MY00 wagon. Only difference is that the P1 seats have some sort of inflating device for making the bolster harder (I think).
Turned the key, first time start, throaty burble from the full decat system, but engine running lumpy. No worries, engine's cold, let's give it some TLC and see what it can do.
Eased it out onto the road and for the first 10 minutes I simply coasted around to get things warmed up and to familiarise myself with the car, gearbox (5 speed as opposed to the 6 I am used to), the brakes, steering reaction, balance & dynamics of the car, etc.
The brake pads had been upgraded (not sure to what). However what I do know is that it frightened the sh'ite out of me when I pressed the stoppers for the very first time and nothing happened for the first few seconds. Got the hang of it though; pads had to be warmed up first to get them to work.
Get to my favourite piece of road, nailed it and.......that's odd!
No shove in the back, no kick in the ball$, no excitement really. Felt almost like I was driving my old wagon, except for the racket of the exhaust.
I was so surprised by the lack of kick and instantaneous oomph that I questioned my companion quite closely re the alleged high power outpu figure. This seemed to be non existent in a real world scenario. I was actually expecting this car to feel quicker, tauter, better than my STi7 but it did not. Absolutely not at all!
Get to three figures eventually (remember, this was on a private road) and everything starts to rattle. Ummm, not quite the driving experience I was expecting. Brakes worked this time though as plenty hot by the time I had to haul us in.
Gave it a boot along some twisty stuff and it hung on ok, but again nothing to write home about. I eventually returned the car, said my thank you's and left.
Driving back home in the STi7 I reflected on my experience. There is absolutely no way that the example P1 I drove was quicker, better handling, punchier, or a better driving experience than the St17. It failed on all counts.
Now there's possibly 2 reasons for this; a= the example I drove was a poor one (only had circa 45K miles on it though, with FFS) or more to the point: b= Subaru have moved on significantly along the development road in recent times and, despite the poor press re the aesthetics, have created a better car in the bugeye and the latest iteration car than anything previous to these.
Stepping on the power in the 7 snapped my head back and hurtled me to the horizon in double quick time. Oh shi'ite!!! I'm grinning all the way home!
At serious speeds the car was rattle free. Brakes worked first time every time (unless you push it into ABS territory) and the driving experience.....YES Madame, more please!
In conclusion therefore, the P1 is certainly an icon of its time, doing all its owners proud. However, based on my experience of having driven the cars mentioned above, we should give credit to Fuji Industries for moving the performance & build envelopes along, even though they may not have taken much note of the adverse comments in their styling clinics before releasing the bugeye in the first place!
Apart from the perhaps questionable aesthetics of the newer models (to some eyes, not mine)there is no doubt in my mind that the newer car is the new kid on the block.
Remember this thread is NOT a knock at old shape/P1 cars. I am simply sharing an experience with you where I have worked very, very hard at presenting an unbiased view.
I fully expected the driving experience of the P1 to be head and shoulders above the Sti7. To my surprise it was not.
Hope this is useful to those who have never stepped into a P1 and wondered how it might compare to an Sti7.
Cheers.
WB
28 June 2003, 02:07 AM
#2
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i used to have a p1 with full decat, 18's and alcons, it felt far quicker than my sti7 ppp, didnt handle as well or stop as well though, it flew from 2500 rpm,but when i put the standard exhaust back on it to part x it was ****e, wouldnt do much below 4k, felt a more special individual car than the 7 but as a car the 7 is far better, depends on what you want, sometimes i regret selling the p1, but the 7 is coming along, ppp, clear indicators and straight through centre section, next prodrive springs and 19's and it will be more me, ie different to others which the p1 always felt
mark
mark
28 June 2003, 02:35 AM
#3
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What a great honest review from WB, I lost my MY00 classic recently, and basically chose the newer bugeye WRX with PPP to replace it. I did really want another classic shape but opted for the newer shape as it was a better option for me at this time. i.e. a P1 was like 19/20K on a 2000 W reg whereas a newer bug eye looking not quite as good but with more umph then a standard classic was in my opinion a better buy in the long run. With the PPP ****s on my last scoob, but to be honest I'd rather like to drive the classic again. As it had many qualities the newer shape dosn't......
Ponder for a moment, and check she is still outside...
Ponder for a moment, and check she is still outside...
28 June 2003, 04:11 PM
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WB,
I took an ardent Classic P1 owner around the Nurburg Ring
and also let hime drive it back from Dover 
he has now ordered a MY03STi 
say no more
Tony
I took an ardent Classic P1 owner around the Nurburg Ring
and also let hime drive it back from Dover he has now ordered a MY03STi say no moreTony
28 June 2003, 05:21 PM
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I'd like to think you caught the P1 on an off day , don't know what it is with the classic shape , but somedays I go out & think I've left the engine at home & other times I feel I can take on the world !!!!! I'm particularly interested in your view on the P1 though because I'm sorely tempted between one of those or a new shape!!!!!
28 June 2003, 06:08 PM
#6
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Just a few points 
:
"The P1 I drove is one of the earlier ones, with serious bhp on tap (alegedly)."
There was no difference between "earlier"P1s than "later" ones performance wise, standard they had 276 bhp, anyone can boast modifications and serious power, but this seems to be checked in reality
"P1 seats have some sort of inflating device for making the bolster harder (I think)."
Dont know what that is, possibly the WR seats? But I dont have them, just the standard blue ones.
"The brake pads had been upgraded (not sure to what). "
The brakes have to be changed for either alcons or 6 pots, standard brakes are crap, you wont find many with standard brakes. Changing the pads alone is not really the same
"No shove in the back, no kick in the ball$, no excitement really"
All I can say is you must have driven a duffer, performance wise it should match your 7 perhaps be faster than it. In the correct gear and revs youll be slammed into your seat, as many of my passengers can confirm
Of course when newer models come out there are going to be improvements on the older car. As the old adage goes horses for courses, I chose a new P1 over anything else in the subaru range at the time. And judging on what was about to be launched i.e. the 7, I parted with my hard earned before there were no P1s left. Im not about to sit here and say the P1 is the best thing since sliced bread, but what I will say is that I shant be parting with it until Subaru come up with something that appeals to me they way a P1 does
As you, Ive no wish to start a 'marque war', simply some of my observations
:"The P1 I drove is one of the earlier ones, with serious bhp on tap (alegedly)."
There was no difference between "earlier"P1s than "later" ones performance wise, standard they had 276 bhp, anyone can boast modifications and serious power, but this seems to be checked in reality
"P1 seats have some sort of inflating device for making the bolster harder (I think)."
Dont know what that is, possibly the WR seats? But I dont have them, just the standard blue ones.
"The brake pads had been upgraded (not sure to what). "
The brakes have to be changed for either alcons or 6 pots, standard brakes are crap, you wont find many with standard brakes. Changing the pads alone is not really the same
"No shove in the back, no kick in the ball$, no excitement really"
All I can say is you must have driven a duffer, performance wise it should match your 7 perhaps be faster than it. In the correct gear and revs youll be slammed into your seat, as many of my passengers can confirm
Of course when newer models come out there are going to be improvements on the older car. As the old adage goes horses for courses, I chose a new P1 over anything else in the subaru range at the time. And judging on what was about to be launched i.e. the 7, I parted with my hard earned before there were no P1s left. Im not about to sit here and say the P1 is the best thing since sliced bread, but what I will say is that I shant be parting with it until Subaru come up with something that appeals to me they way a P1 does
As you, Ive no wish to start a 'marque war', simply some of my observations
29 June 2003, 02:03 PM
#7
TSN, Hotpants, Nutta, thanks for the responses.
Like I said I was more than surprised by the fact that my socks weren't blown off by the example I drove. Don't even think the tissues I was using for my hay fever got a remote fright
Useful to get Scoobynutta's perspective in particular, as a P1 owner. I'm now so mystified by it all that I am looking for another example to drive to see if that's any different.
If/when I do, I will report back.
Enjoy your cars, whatever they are.
Cheers
WB
[Edited by wacky.banana - 6/29/2003 2:04:02 PM]
Like I said I was more than surprised by the fact that my socks weren't blown off by the example I drove. Don't even think the tissues I was using for my hay fever got a remote fright
Useful to get Scoobynutta's perspective in particular, as a P1 owner. I'm now so mystified by it all that I am looking for another example to drive to see if that's any different.
If/when I do, I will report back.
Enjoy your cars, whatever they are.
Cheers
WB
[Edited by wacky.banana - 6/29/2003 2:04:02 PM]
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29 June 2003, 06:01 PM
#9
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I would imagine that if they are very similar spec'd cars, power wise, then you wouldnt really feel any different
I drive my car (Uk Turbo, with full decat) everyday, and I drove another (Wagon with PPP) and yes it felt quicker but not the vast difference you seem to be expecting
maybe there is such a subtle difference between the P1 & Sti 7 in kick in the back of the seat performance
I test drove a P1 twice, and then drove my mates ( before I get mine) yes it was cheesy grins all round, pushed into the back of the seat, but now I have got used to mine, I doubt driving a P1 now would have quite the same effect
Noticeable but not blown away, if you know what I mean
I drive my car (Uk Turbo, with full decat) everyday, and I drove another (Wagon with PPP) and yes it felt quicker but not the vast difference you seem to be expecting
maybe there is such a subtle difference between the P1 & Sti 7 in kick in the back of the seat performance
I test drove a P1 twice, and then drove my mates ( before I get mine) yes it was cheesy grins all round, pushed into the back of the seat, but now I have got used to mine, I doubt driving a P1 now would have quite the same effect
Noticeable but not blown away, if you know what I mean
29 June 2003, 07:03 PM
#10
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I have to agree with Scoobynutter in most parts
Both cars have their good pionts and faults
Dependant on your usage will persuade you to buy whichever but soon 'Classic' soon becomes 'Vintage' and sometimes time to move on IMHO.
I own a limited edition BugeyeLOL STi7PPP and my comment on previuos post were, more the fact although mine is 'Ugly' and loads Heavier than a P1, it can still preform very well Which did suprise my P1 owner passenger, creature comforts, overweight but still handles quite well
Personally I never liked the 'Newage' and always said I would do the same to the front end as the Indian chap in the Peugout advert LOL
That is till I drove the STi7, I believe Subaru have realised that you can't make a new car uglier and slower
you have to make it faster. I look forward to the MY04 or Vauxhal, Ford, Mitzy, Honda or sales will improve
Tony
Both cars have their good pionts and faults
Dependant on your usage will persuade you to buy whichever but soon 'Classic' soon becomes 'Vintage' and sometimes time to move on IMHO.I own a limited edition Bugeye
LOL STi7PPP and my comment on previuos post were, more the fact although mine is 'Ugly' and loads Heavier than a P1, it can still preform very well Which did suprise my P1 owner passenger, creature comforts, overweight but still handles quite well Personally I never liked the 'Newage' and always said I would do the same to the front end as the Indian chap in the Peugout advert
LOLThat is till I drove the STi7, I believe Subaru have realised that you can't make a new car uglier and slower
you have to make it faster. I look forward to the MY04 or Vauxhal, Ford, Mitzy, Honda or sales will improve Tony
29 June 2003, 08:59 PM
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I refuse to believe the P1 didnt bury you into your seat.
The turbo coming in on an STI 7 or 8 is like being tapped by Wayne McCullough, the P1 turbo coming in (espicially if you have changed down and floored it) is like being twatted by Lennox.
In fact i would go so far to say that the STI is so uninvolving to drive compared to a P1 that i found it sterile in comparison and didnt even get a grin going duing my test drive, i was bewildered how they had ruined a good formula. See Evo 6 residuals as positive proof i am not alone
The turbo coming in on an STI 7 or 8 is like being tapped by Wayne McCullough, the P1 turbo coming in (espicially if you have changed down and floored it) is like being twatted by Lennox.
In fact i would go so far to say that the STI is so uninvolving to drive compared to a P1 that i found it sterile in comparison and didnt even get a grin going duing my test drive, i was bewildered how they had ruined a good formula. See Evo 6 residuals as positive proof i am not alone
29 June 2003, 09:41 PM
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I have both a P1 and an STI8 with ppp. i have had the P1 over 2 years and the STI for just 1300 miles but so far I prefer the P1,obviously it's early days with STI but every thing from the driving position, gearchange and throttle response to the ride steering and handling disappoint compared to the P1.
Driven in isolation it is a great car but jump from the STI to the P1 and brakes apart the STI has notimproved on the P1 one bit.
Andy
Driven in isolation it is a great car but jump from the STI to the P1 and brakes apart the STI has notimproved on the P1 one bit.
Andy
30 June 2003, 09:06 AM
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I recently test drove a P1 and also an STI7 (now mine)
Both very similar in performance, however the P1 seemed a bit more 'raw' and liked to be reved a bit more than the STI.
I would say that the P1 did seem slightly quicker but not by that much.
On the public roads they seemed close enough to not make too much difference.
Both very nice cars but at the end of the day I went for the refinement of the STI. I'm planning on keeping my purchase for several years and just felt that the P1 would start to feel 'old' in due course.
I'm in no way slagging of P1's, they are great cars, but for the same money I got a year old car instead of a 3 year old motor with 30k more miles on it
Horses for courses as they say.
Both very similar in performance, however the P1 seemed a bit more 'raw' and liked to be reved a bit more than the STI.
I would say that the P1 did seem slightly quicker but not by that much.
On the public roads they seemed close enough to not make too much difference.
Both very nice cars but at the end of the day I went for the refinement of the STI. I'm planning on keeping my purchase for several years and just felt that the P1 would start to feel 'old' in due course.
I'm in no way slagging of P1's, they are great cars, but for the same money I got a year old car instead of a 3 year old motor with 30k more miles on it
Horses for courses as they say.
30 June 2003, 09:55 PM
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Yes I own a STi7 PPP and just had my 25th Wedding Anniverary
My Old MY99 did 12 Trackays the new one has only done 3 Bedford Nurburgring and Castle Combe but there again I am a Old git
Tony
My Old MY99 did 12 Trackays
the new one has only done 3 Bedford Nurburgring and Castle Combe but there again I am a Old git Tony
01 July 2003, 12:09 AM
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Wacky Banana,
I have to say I haven't driven an STi 7 or 8 so I'm a bit in the dark.
My P1 is sluggish below 3000-3500 rpm. It will go if pressed (eventually) but there's noticeable lag. Once it's on boost it's a bit of a mad thing. It's not exactly modded, P1 backbox is about the limit of any power mods.
How does the STi compare? i.e. How easy/difficult is it to light it up and go compared to the P1? At what RPM (in 2nd, 3rd say) is lag not a factor and at what point does it go vorpal?
Vindaloo.
I have to say I haven't driven an STi 7 or 8 so I'm a bit in the dark.
My P1 is sluggish below 3000-3500 rpm. It will go if pressed (eventually) but there's noticeable lag. Once it's on boost it's a bit of a mad thing. It's not exactly modded, P1 backbox is about the limit of any power mods.
How does the STi compare? i.e. How easy/difficult is it to light it up and go compared to the P1? At what RPM (in 2nd, 3rd say) is lag not a factor and at what point does it go vorpal?
Vindaloo.
01 July 2003, 08:21 AM
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Vindaloo, the sti 7 is sluggish below 4000 rpm, unless it has the PPP, then it isn,t sluggish at all. In a straight line the P1 will be faster than a standard uk sti to a 100mph. I know because me and my friend have done tests, which made him buy the ppp for his 7.
01 July 2003, 08:54 AM
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I was/am considering a STi prodrive and will be test driving one today. They have one for sale at CCV for £19,995 but the mileage is a bit high for the price. Just called Lancaster Pangbourne and asked about the STi Prodrive. The salesman asked why do I want to go from a P1 to an STi...? Well I want a newer car...thats about it. He suggested to keep the P1 as it was by far the quickest and will hold its price, now thats from a dealer that suppose to sell you a car.
Thx for being honest.
Regards
Kev
Thx for being honest.
Regards
Kev
02 July 2003, 06:30 AM
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OK, test drove the STi UK prodrive from CCV yesterday. What I found was :-
Getting into the car I noticed straight away the interior was updated and was more comfortable. You can adjust the warning light/buzzer at specific revs, saves you keep looking at the rev counter.
Handling was good, suspension was softer, hence did not feel the road as much as you would in the P1.
Performance was not very good, had to give it alot of revs and certainly did not put me back in the seat. I guess thats where the PPP would come in to put it upto 300 bhp. This would cost £2000 from the dealer, whether thats a good price I don't know.
Conclusion :
I'd purchase the PPP straight away to get the bhp up to where the P1 is. Then I'd change the suspension so its a bit harder so I could feel the road a bit more. Apart from that its got the same engine as the P1 and the interior is more updated. Stick the new interior in the P1 and hey presto, ultimate car.
Getting into the car I noticed straight away the interior was updated and was more comfortable. You can adjust the warning light/buzzer at specific revs, saves you keep looking at the rev counter.
Handling was good, suspension was softer, hence did not feel the road as much as you would in the P1.
Performance was not very good, had to give it alot of revs and certainly did not put me back in the seat. I guess thats where the PPP would come in to put it upto 300 bhp. This would cost £2000 from the dealer, whether thats a good price I don't know.
Conclusion :
I'd purchase the PPP straight away to get the bhp up to where the P1 is. Then I'd change the suspension so its a bit harder so I could feel the road a bit more. Apart from that its got the same engine as the P1 and the interior is more updated. Stick the new interior in the P1 and hey presto, ultimate car.
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