akshay67

Recently I've been getting into 'throwing' my MY99 around more and I'm increasingly impressed by the 'grip' etc...

I'd be interested in knowing how much better are the new generation scoobies than the classics in terms of handling? I'd especially be interested to hear from owners of both models. Comparisions of standard models would be good. Have you noticed differences in exit speeds out of your favorite roundabouts?

This could dictate my next car.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Well...

Big & varied subject

Post MY00 shape are heavier but more rigid chasis.

Had my MY99 Wagon (with mods (suspension, brakes etc) up against Pete Croney's MY01 (with same mods from same company) @ Brands Hatch a while back. I caught him up quite easily. The additional weight factor should've been negated by the extra power he had through full decat etc.

Got a cracking video somewhere

Dodge

A bit of a lame-arsed reply I know, and probably biased, but apart from the new STi8, all the newer std uk cars seem far less exciting, with sloshier handling, than my standard MY98.

I've test driven most of the newer models, and hugely prefer mine with it's slightly rawer, rougher / sharper edges. Horses for courses I'm sure, but I just thank god that I do prefer mine, as I couldn't begin to afford a new one!

The STi8's steering has a direct line to directsville that I loved. But too bumpy... And I've never driven an import.

(All of the above is strictly IMHO - not trying to start a flame war!)

Phil Harrison

"Different" is probably the right word. IMHO bugeyes have a sweeter turn-in but I found there was less feedback through the steering which made me feel less secure. I went from an '00 to the STi7, however, and it took an age (and a morning at the Prodrive track on a 'promo' day) to get the feel of the STi. I wasn't happy to start off with - now I wouldn't go back...

Phil

Brendan Hughes

The impression I get from reading this board is there is more control but less fun. Is that fair?

wrrjones

i have i jap/uk import wrx 2002 and the suspention is much stiffer uk one a bit sloppy......chris

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

Had a playfull run in with a 'Classic WRX' the other week (great fun i might add )

anyways, on the straights he pulled away (not supprising ) but in the bendy bits i would be up there and bearing down on him

we swapped after a while me leading the opposite happened him right up my bumper on the straight bits and me pulling away a bit on the bends

reasons?

1. the new car handles the bends better?

or

2. He was'nt trying

Steve WRX MY01 btw.

<flame suit on >

chrisp

There is a massive difference in the way the classics handle . My old 98 UK turbo and my current import 00 RA wre very different with the STI suspension turns in on throttle but is compromised on more bumpy roads. The UK was probably easier to live with but the RA takes more concentration and can be more rewarding but they can bite if prevoked.

Phil Harrison

Brendan..... IMHO, more control equals more fun, tho' I understand where you're coming from. For me, more fun is getting more performance on the public highway without imperilling anyone else (or me for that matter)

Phil

JackClark

A-B my 01 wagon is faster than my old, old shape even if it doesn't feel it. Probably much faster now with PPP and springs, but I'm used to it. Don't miss the all too frequent understeer on of the 98 either.

chiark

The 03 WRX is, without doubt (in my mind ), a much much much better handling car than my old MY00 turbo.

The 00 had loads of grip, and possibly a little more ultimate grip with Toyos on compared to the RE050s standard on the WRX, but it never gave as much "feedback" through the wheel, seat, everything as the new WRX does. Evo summed it up for me: "you never feel like there's more grip than handling", and I did think that in the old car.

The old adage "suck it and see" could be used here

akshay67

So Chiark, do you reckon that on the whole my MY99 would be quicker out of a fast roundabout than a MY03 (on those tyres)?

The point I was trying to get as was is it worth upgrading for the increased grip of the new generation, because I'm getting seriously addicted to going around bends at silly speeds and, like anyone, I want more!

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

chiark, you love your EVO quotes! I bet the PPP report is framed on your wall

BruceWarne

My thoughts (from having owned all three):
Bug Eye vs Classic Turbo - better handling, sharper turn in, less fun
STi7 vs Classic Turbo - better handling, much much more fun (once you get to know the setup).

The classic lends itself to you having a lot of fun at relatively low speeds - it is light&powerful enough, and the chassis "bad" enough that you can force it into a 4-wheel drift at low speeds into most corners...but awd means you can easily keep control.

The WRX doesn't have enough power for the chassis.

STi does - but you need to be going at high spees, and do something really stupid for it to go "loose".

That's it in my opinion - in the classic it's so easy to break loose, and pull it back again, that you can feel like Colin M in every corner.

chiark

IMHO, I think you could carry a little more speed through the roundabout, and given that a certain Mr Wallis was saying his car would be all over the place if he tried to do what I was doing on Sunday then I guess it should be a little quicker.

The car's still only got 2000 miles on it, so is tight, but the power delivery is pretty good.

The PPP will make it a "no contest" question IMHO

And, yep, I do love that evo quote. It really sums up the difference between the two cars for me

Cheers,
Nick.

chrisp

Everyone slates the classic now but funny how it cleaned up on 99% of the group tests it went in. In fact the only time it got slated inthe mags was when a new version was announced , funny that .

Just remember folks the classic built the cult image, following and reputation, thats why people want to buy an impreza turbo now its still a great car in its own right and much respected for what it can do and well named as the classic impreza.

I am sure many people driving a new 2003 Golf GTi would much prefer it over a Mark 1 or Mark 2 Golf GTi but why did they buy or even consider a Golf GTi perhaps because of the reputation of the original mark 1 and mark 2 ?.

The new cars are different, better in some ways, worse in others, certainly not superior in all unless someone has a new WRX that can do 100 in 12 seconds out of the box.

What amazes me is the number of comments like. My new MY03 WRX with PPP is far better than my standard MY99 UK turbo. If the MY03 WRX is so superior why put a PPP on it and not keep it standard like the MY99 ?????

BruceWarne

Chrisp I agree.

Overall, the WRX is a better car than the Turbo, but not the stuff cult cars are built on.

I'd rate them:
STi7 (9/10), Turbo (8/10), WRX (7/10)

On my list a STi6 would get around 9.5/10... If it weren't for our really crap fuel down here, it would be my Scooby of choice...(Not even mentioning the type RA)...

mutant_matt

Remember that there is a difference between grip and handling. You seem to be mainly interested in grip and not handling and IMHO, the new shape(s) are superior in that sense. If this is your criteria to change then I don't think you'll be disapointed.

Having driven pretty much most model types and year with most types of mods, I'd say that the new shape cars handle better than the old shape cars (and have more grip), but feel less raw in the way they go about it, are generally "nicer" and a more complete package. The older cars "feel" faster, even when they are not though. You can't beat lightweight though so it's a shame they can't make the new cars lighter and have the best of both worlds!!!

If I didn't think the new STi was better, I wouldn't have upgraded from my 18 month old MY00UK (lightly modded). Most overall fun I've had driving a Scoob was Scott Davies' STi 5 RA V-Ltd with plenty of mods and 343bhp/312ft-lbs which rocked (sold to Mellow) but was way too raw for me as an all round everyday car - which was a shame!

Yes I'm modding my STi (7) but then I was modding my last car too - you can always make them better () and a few low cost handling mods can go a long way...

Ta,

Matt

( R6 CDW )

Got a 03 wrx, 200% stiffer than the classic model. It also has less body roll.
You feel the differance every time you park your butt in it.

All round a much more refined drive and "i" think easier to drive round the twisties, Thought i think it might struggle in a straight line against a classic even with 225ps

Vate

Lightly modded MY00.
Test drove standard MY03
Straight out the box the MY03 is a more balnced car.
Due to the less 'raw' drive it feels more fluid when driven hard than frantic. If I had a straight choice at £20k between the two cars the MY03 would be on the driveway. Alas I alreaqdy spent more than that 2.5yrs ago and I didn't think the MY03 was improved enough against a modded MY00 except in 'normal' driving (ie from A-B) to warrant another £10k now. No doubt though. Handles much better that the 'classic' straight out the box.

chiark

Don't get me wrong, the MY00 is a fantastic car, absolutely fantastic. I loved mine to pieces. However, IMHO, it never handled terrifically well. Grip and grunt were superb without doubt, but the handling didn't "inspire" confidence - the grip did that, and left you a little down to trust the car.

I wouldn't say I'm a brilliant technical driver. I wouldn't say I know half of what makes a car "handle", or half of how to drive a car on the limit, but I know how I drive my MY00 and MY03 is already changing - I can scare the wife *much* more easily in the MY03 on seven tenths of my ability whereas on the MY00 it would take a lot more of my ability.

For a car that *really* handles brilliantly IMHO, drive the STI8. I honestly thought that my car wasn't that bad until I did that. It was a real eye opener.

For a car that handles very, very well and really is a leap above the MY00, try the 03 WRX. Every time I brake, or come to a corner, the car gives me much more of a feeling that I know what it's doing. It inspires you to explore limits, especially in the wet, in ways that were possible in the MY00 but a little more scary .

Back to back them. You will be astounded.

I have no axe to grind, as the MY00 is fantastic. But I was in all honesty really blown away by the improvement of handling, which is the question you asked, compared to the MY00.

Cheers,
Nick.

Leslie

I found that my My94 STI 1 was very fast through the larger radius bends when I first had it but tended to "scrabble" in the tight corners. The best way I can describe it was that the steering always felt low geared.

I had the bump steer removed, the suspension set up accurately and fitted the solid anti roll bar links. The car feels like another machine now, the grip in the corners is outstanding, the front turns in perfectly, the steering effort is reduced and does not need as much lock applied as before. When the car slides it is perfectly balanced and progressive. It also make a wet road feel dry!

Les