Powerstation / Geometry Guru's
18 February 2000, 07:25 PM
#1
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Hi All
Just got off the phone with Dirk at Powerstation. I spoke to them a while back re setting my Scooby up but sold it soon after so never got up there.
THESE GUYS REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!
They actally turned down some work I was offering them which would have given them some serious coverage on here and lots of business because the environment they would be working in (ie. Outside at MIRA) would be unsuitable to do a 'perfect' job.
I was really impressed with their integrty. They could have easily said "yeah, no probs" and just taken the business but made the decision on the phone to regretfully turn it down, not wanting to put their name to work which (by anybody) could not be perfect.
I drove Moray's RA at MIRA a few months back which had been set up by them (this is how I got to know about them) and it was without any question, the best handling Subaru (round MIRA) I have driven (thats amongst about 30 Scoobs!!) including 22B's, RB5's, Type R's ,etc,etc.
It is absolutely obvious that they have INTENSIVELY studied and perfected the art of geomtry / suspension set-up techniques, tested it in motorsport, and can apply this knowledge and experience to the road.
Moray's car was so good. They had (some how) managed to tune out the bump steer which is dialed into stock cars (to make them understeer) allowing the car to be set-up EXACTLY how the driver wants.
The problem with bump steer is that the geomtry of the wheels alters depending on the movement of the suspension. Generally speaking, when you brake, the front susp compresses making the front wheels splay out (toe out). This is why we tend to put toe-in (pro-drive setting, etc) so that under braking the fronts become fairly parallel (or however you want it). The problem comes when you are cornering. If all weight is on the left front wheel (outside of bend), it will splay out. If there is little weight on the right wheel (inside) it will probably be toeing in!! Can't be perfect at all!!!
Getting rid of this characteristic is fairly unheard of. But my god did it make a difference!
Bump Steer is obviously just a small example of the benefits of the experience they have gained.
Well done chaps.. Keep up the good work, and thank you for your honesty!
I will definately be bringing my Legacy (to be rally car) for you to fettle.
Regards
Simon
Just got off the phone with Dirk at Powerstation. I spoke to them a while back re setting my Scooby up but sold it soon after so never got up there.
THESE GUYS REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!
They actally turned down some work I was offering them which would have given them some serious coverage on here and lots of business because the environment they would be working in (ie. Outside at MIRA) would be unsuitable to do a 'perfect' job.
I was really impressed with their integrty. They could have easily said "yeah, no probs" and just taken the business but made the decision on the phone to regretfully turn it down, not wanting to put their name to work which (by anybody) could not be perfect.
I drove Moray's RA at MIRA a few months back which had been set up by them (this is how I got to know about them) and it was without any question, the best handling Subaru (round MIRA) I have driven (thats amongst about 30 Scoobs!!) including 22B's, RB5's, Type R's ,etc,etc.
It is absolutely obvious that they have INTENSIVELY studied and perfected the art of geomtry / suspension set-up techniques, tested it in motorsport, and can apply this knowledge and experience to the road.
Moray's car was so good. They had (some how) managed to tune out the bump steer which is dialed into stock cars (to make them understeer) allowing the car to be set-up EXACTLY how the driver wants.
The problem with bump steer is that the geomtry of the wheels alters depending on the movement of the suspension. Generally speaking, when you brake, the front susp compresses making the front wheels splay out (toe out). This is why we tend to put toe-in (pro-drive setting, etc) so that under braking the fronts become fairly parallel (or however you want it). The problem comes when you are cornering. If all weight is on the left front wheel (outside of bend), it will splay out. If there is little weight on the right wheel (inside) it will probably be toeing in!! Can't be perfect at all!!!
Getting rid of this characteristic is fairly unheard of. But my god did it make a difference!
Bump Steer is obviously just a small example of the benefits of the experience they have gained.
Well done chaps.. Keep up the good work, and thank you for your honesty!
I will definately be bringing my Legacy (to be rally car) for you to fettle.
Regards
Simon
19 February 2000, 12:52 AM
#3
Hi simon.
Bump steer is something i spend a lot of time on to eliminate on the race car.
It is caused by the angle that the track control arms not following exactly the angle of the suspension when in bump/rebound.
There are 2 ways to eliminate this. One is to Move the steering rack possition up/down so as to make the arc the arms follow the same as the suspension. The other is to move the track rod end location on the suspension up/down to give the same effect.
The reason most production cars suffer from this is because of packageing restrictions, the rack is usually not able to be placed in the ideal possition due to another component being in the way.
A few centimeters on a road car can make a lot of diference, i think the reason most are out is due to the production line order of assembly, as most cars can be cured by packing the steering rack to a different location without fouling any other component.
On mid engined race cars this is very easy to achieve, take a look at the front suspension/steering on an F1 car, you will see that the steering control arms run parallel with the wishbones to eliminate bump steer.
Bump steer is something i spend a lot of time on to eliminate on the race car.
It is caused by the angle that the track control arms not following exactly the angle of the suspension when in bump/rebound.
There are 2 ways to eliminate this. One is to Move the steering rack possition up/down so as to make the arc the arms follow the same as the suspension. The other is to move the track rod end location on the suspension up/down to give the same effect.
The reason most production cars suffer from this is because of packageing restrictions, the rack is usually not able to be placed in the ideal possition due to another component being in the way.
A few centimeters on a road car can make a lot of diference, i think the reason most are out is due to the production line order of assembly, as most cars can be cured by packing the steering rack to a different location without fouling any other component.
On mid engined race cars this is very easy to achieve, take a look at the front suspension/steering on an F1 car, you will see that the steering control arms run parallel with the wishbones to eliminate bump steer.
19 February 2000, 08:16 AM
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Hi Kevin
The number is (01242) 238400. They're in Cheltenham I believe. I think they read this site regularly as well so they may have a website, I'm not sure.
Cheers
Simon
The number is (01242) 238400. They're in Cheltenham I believe. I think they read this site regularly as well so they may have a website, I'm not sure.
Cheers
Simon
19 February 2000, 04:48 PM
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Just to confirm what Simon has so eloquently stated, Powerstation really know their stuff!
Since I had my (sti 3) standard suspension setup in Cheltenham the car has been a completely different beast.
The car now feels beautifully poised with a neutral balance (on my request, SiDB would probably get as much oversteer as he asked for!) that makes it a joy to drive. In the wet, it is fantastically adjustable on the throttle, steering and brakes around anything remotely resembling a corner. The car signals the approach of the limits smoothly and progressively, which is what I want. In the dry, I don't really think I have got anywhere near the car's true limits!
The suspension setup is so good on my car that I have shelved plans to upgrade the hardware, for the time being anyway.
Powerstation now service my car. Their enthusiastic, honest and professional approach to their work coupled with their obvious expertise is exactly what I look for in a tuning/servicing outfit.
In short, if you are based in the region, give Powerstation a call!
Moray
Since I had my (sti 3) standard suspension setup in Cheltenham the car has been a completely different beast.
The car now feels beautifully poised with a neutral balance (on my request, SiDB would probably get as much oversteer as he asked for!) that makes it a joy to drive. In the wet, it is fantastically adjustable on the throttle, steering and brakes around anything remotely resembling a corner. The car signals the approach of the limits smoothly and progressively, which is what I want. In the dry, I don't really think I have got anywhere near the car's true limits!
The suspension setup is so good on my car that I have shelved plans to upgrade the hardware, for the time being anyway.
Powerstation now service my car. Their enthusiastic, honest and professional approach to their work coupled with their obvious expertise is exactly what I look for in a tuning/servicing outfit.
In short, if you are based in the region, give Powerstation a call!
Moray
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