MY11 Sti Saloon 19k miles engine failure
08 August 2014, 05:48 PM
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MY11 Sti Saloon 19k miles engine failure
Well my Red 2011 Sti UK 2.5L under 19k miles I had been complaining about erratic Oil usage. It had been in a few times over the past 24months but nothing found in 3 lots of tests.
Luckily with only 2months left of 36m warranty I had the engine let go big time.
Although it wasn't ring land failure as I inspected the engine. But there was a cracked piston Ring the crack was dirty so an old wound and not from disassembly.
Any way I paid the garage to remove the new Subaru pistons and fit Forged ones.
Anyway get your popcorn ready LOL
I had been sceptical about owners who said. They had no warning or signs of oil loss. And maybe had there claims rejected.
My T20 early LM had an Oil seal issue when cold. It cleared when Hot. But it was like the Red arrows behind and no mistake what was happening. I could see the smoke in the mirror and cars behind couldn't see. I was using less oil than my 2011.
Any way because of erratic usage I always reset Odo after each top up of Oil. At 600 miles it was topped up with 1/2 L at reset to 000 and did quick check at approx 220 miles no oil added.
. But in 180miles it drank 4.2ltrs of Oil. No blue smoke. No Oil light.I was in bank holiday traffic on A roads 30mph and max speed of 57 mph. Checked tracker.
On way to crossroads going up M42 hill towards hopwood services as we were traveling slow under 50mph I dropped to 5th but it sounded like a heat shield rattle but not keeping up it had like little end rattle as took my foot off to change to 4th. As I did that I then heard big end knock and total loss of power.
I heard all cars brake screening behind me and struggled to getting to hard shoulder most dangerous thing I've done in a while. I had to drop to 2nd. Still no oil light although temp might been fractional higher still well in Normal. Sounded like a blacksmith on an anvil
I was nearly at hopwood service entrance as downhill I costed in. my mate arrived and we checked over the car and no oil on stick.
We started car up and both saw oil light go out!! With bearings knocked out and no Oil HOW.
We went to garage and engine cooler. Check oil again none on stick. Started engine for 5secs and oil light went out. We put 4.2litres oil in and ran for 10secs but still knocking and called Subaru assist
Tony
Luckily with only 2months left of 36m warranty I had the engine let go big time.
Although it wasn't ring land failure as I inspected the engine. But there was a cracked piston Ring the crack was dirty so an old wound and not from disassembly.
Any way I paid the garage to remove the new Subaru pistons and fit Forged ones.
Anyway get your popcorn ready LOL
I had been sceptical about owners who said. They had no warning or signs of oil loss. And maybe had there claims rejected.
My T20 early LM had an Oil seal issue when cold. It cleared when Hot. But it was like the Red arrows behind and no mistake what was happening. I could see the smoke in the mirror and cars behind couldn't see. I was using less oil than my 2011.
Any way because of erratic usage I always reset Odo after each top up of Oil. At 600 miles it was topped up with 1/2 L at reset to 000 and did quick check at approx 220 miles no oil added.
. But in 180miles it drank 4.2ltrs of Oil. No blue smoke. No Oil light.I was in bank holiday traffic on A roads 30mph and max speed of 57 mph. Checked tracker.
On way to crossroads going up M42 hill towards hopwood services as we were traveling slow under 50mph I dropped to 5th but it sounded like a heat shield rattle but not keeping up it had like little end rattle as took my foot off to change to 4th. As I did that I then heard big end knock and total loss of power.
I heard all cars brake screening behind me and struggled to getting to hard shoulder most dangerous thing I've done in a while. I had to drop to 2nd. Still no oil light although temp might been fractional higher still well in Normal. Sounded like a blacksmith on an anvil
I was nearly at hopwood service entrance as downhill I costed in. my mate arrived and we checked over the car and no oil on stick.
We started car up and both saw oil light go out!! With bearings knocked out and no Oil HOW.
We went to garage and engine cooler. Check oil again none on stick. Started engine for 5secs and oil light went out. We put 4.2litres oil in and ran for 10secs but still knocking and called Subaru assist
Tony
08 August 2014, 05:57 PM
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Thr existing low oil pressure system is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Surely this day and age a there is a system out there that can effectively monitor the oil pressure. Say at over 2krpm min of 2bar as the standard pump can by the seem generate 0.5bar pumping Fresh Air. FFS
IMHO if the std Low oil pressure switch/warning is "unfit for purpose" then it needs to be removed.
Or is it a case of every car is fitted with one. It doesn't work but but its on there.
It's a shame that the oil pressure switch isn't analogue back to ECU. They could them have different triggering pressure at different RPM and engine temps.
Tony
Surely this day and age a there is a system out there that can effectively monitor the oil pressure. Say at over 2krpm min of 2bar as the standard pump can by the seem generate 0.5bar pumping Fresh Air. FFS
IMHO if the std Low oil pressure switch/warning is "unfit for purpose" then it needs to be removed.
Or is it a case of every car is fitted with one. It doesn't work but but its on there.
It's a shame that the oil pressure switch isn't analogue back to ECU. They could them have different triggering pressure at different RPM and engine temps.
Tony
Last edited by T5NYW; 23 August 2014 at 11:32 AM.
08 August 2014, 06:22 PM
#4
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You're assuming the oil pressure circuit is working correctly. 
My old SPEC C 2.5 used to chew oil like it was VPower through the 1150cc injectors. Never had any noticeable smoke out of the exhaust.
These engines are just pieces of ****e!
My old SPEC C 2.5 used to chew oil like it was VPower through the 1150cc injectors. Never had any noticeable smoke out of the exhaust.
These engines are just pieces of ****e!
08 August 2014, 06:34 PM
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I assuming there is something wrong others oil circuit.
Tony
Last edited by T5NYW; 23 August 2014 at 03:24 PM.
08 August 2014, 06:48 PM
#6
The catalyst burns off any oil that engine (or turbo) puts out, the only time you see a puff of blue is when the cat is cold. Pull the spark plugs out and look for ash deposits on them - thats the only sure way. My cousins old Fiesta with 160k miles used to guzzle it at 2 litres a week - to the point we were putting used engine oil in it out of other cars just to keep it going..it only smoked for a few second on start-up. It just needed the plugs de-fouling every few thousand miles.
And belive it or not, an engine can run on no oil; Its not bone dry - there is still a boundry layer of oil on the components and the pump may find the odd drop of oil to push enough pressure to keep the light off, which only needs a few psi (which is why teh light is useless).
Remember two stroke engines on garden equipment, only rely on a very thin oil mist- they still have big ends etc (albeit needle rollers). My Kwak h1 has a oil pump....but all it does is "drip" oil to the crank journals. So with that in mind, you can understand why a engine doesn't suddenly seize solid at the instant of oil starvation....it just wears out quicker until something starts to rattle.
Indeed I experienced this with a Mondeo ST220 that had ran out of oil. The car was brought in by the AA with a faulty clutch and starter motor issue. Indeed the clutch was dodgy, and the starter was dodgy...but what caused it to be dodgy was trying to crank a engine with no oil, obviously we only found that out after replacing the starter motor (oops
Never trust a AA or RAC diagnosis ). It ran, but not too well...the hydrualic lifters had all collapsed so the valves wouldn't open fully, thats what saved the engine, again oil light went out when it started. Lucky for the owner the damage wasn't that severe; most of the bearings were ok.
08 August 2014, 06:58 PM
#7
Just because there is no oil on dipstick doesnt mean the sump is empty, dipstick only measures top 1.5l if i remember correctly. Low oil level increases chances of oil starvation due to movement of oil in sump from g-forces
lucky you are still in warranty, but unlucky it happening
lucky you are still in warranty, but unlucky it happening
Last edited by Gambit; 08 August 2014 at 07:02 PM.
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08 August 2014, 08:23 PM
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VERY true. Very pleased with Subaru Uk
agreed light on tooooooo late but my light didn't come on until engine was stopped as normal 
and went out on on tick over.Engine obviously shot and BEFORE I put 4.2ltr oil in to full level
I tested started up from, cold, minus the lost 4.2 litres Oil and the big ends gone it still put out the Oil light out (on tick over Not reved up)
Now that's soooooo wrong.
Tony
Last edited by T5NYW; 31 August 2014 at 12:53 PM.
08 August 2014, 08:56 PM
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That's not good Tony ,
I'll have to keep a closer eye on mine from now on
Are you just replacing with standard engine or spend the extra for uprated pistons etc ? Or are you going to chop it in for a new one ?
I was going to take a visit to scoobyclinic to get mine mapped properly but not sure what to do for the best
Good luck with what you decide
I'll have to keep a closer eye on mine from now on
Are you just replacing with standard engine or spend the extra for uprated pistons etc ? Or are you going to chop it in for a new one ?
I was going to take a visit to scoobyclinic to get mine mapped properly but not sure what to do for the best
Good luck with what you decide
08 August 2014, 09:08 PM
#12
I can back up everything tony has said as we were both on the way to Crossroads to check out the new Sti.
The reason I got rid of my 2012 saloon was because I was worried about the mapping as some may know, even meeting with Pro R at a dyno as my car wasn't doing what it should do and ended with a mapping tweak to their std 340 map.
The reason I got rid of my 2012 saloon was because I was worried about the mapping as some may know, even meeting with Pro R at a dyno as my car wasn't doing what it should do and ended with a mapping tweak to their std 340 map.
08 August 2014, 09:26 PM
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I can back up everything tony has said as we were both on the way to Crossroads to check out the new Sti.
The reason I got rid of my 2012 saloon was because I was worried about the mapping as some may know, even meeting with Pro R at a dyno as my car wasn't doing what it should do and ended with a mapping tweak to their std 340 map.
The reason I got rid of my 2012 saloon was because I was worried about the mapping as some may know, even meeting with Pro R at a dyno as my car wasn't doing what it should do and ended with a mapping tweak to their std 340 map.
Scoobyclinic can dyno the car for me to show current power output,they're pretty certain it isn't the claimed amount and will remap if I wanted them to.
The thing is why should I have to pay again to put the car 'right' after initially paying subaru for the upgrade, car is 6 months out of warranty now
Decisions to be made soon I think
08 August 2014, 09:38 PM
#16
You're not the first person I've heard mention that the pro r 340 map isn't a good map and doesn't do what it claims.
Scoobyclinic can dyno the car for me to show current power output,they're pretty certain it isn't the claimed amount and will remap if I wanted them to.
The thing is why should I have to pay again to put the car 'right' after initially paying subaru for the upgrade, car is 6 months out of warranty now
Decisions to be made soon I think
Scoobyclinic can dyno the car for me to show current power output,they're pretty certain it isn't the claimed amount and will remap if I wanted them to.
The thing is why should I have to pay again to put the car 'right' after initially paying subaru for the upgrade, car is 6 months out of warranty now
Decisions to be made soon I think
Last edited by kev1; 08 August 2014 at 09:42 PM.
08 August 2014, 11:47 PM
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08 August 2014, 11:56 PM
#19
AnOther example of Subaru engine failure
About time Subaru uk recalled all Engines and rebuilt them with proper pistons and components as the engines aren't up to the job all 2-5 and diesels
Subaru uk rang me Couple of weeks ago trying to sell me a new STi
When asked why they don't gave a five year warrenty on the sti they couldn't answer that question
It's because the engine is "not fit for the purpose ""
Thats why the STi is at the bottom of my list for my replacements for my Nismo and Ciivc EX GT
It really annoys me that Subaru made a fantastic product with the orginal impreza and totally screwed it up in later years
Why should someone pay 25k + and have a engine rebuilt after a few thousand miles ?
About time Subaru uk recalled all Engines and rebuilt them with proper pistons and components as the engines aren't up to the job all 2-5 and diesels
Subaru uk rang me Couple of weeks ago trying to sell me a new STi
When asked why they don't gave a five year warrenty on the sti they couldn't answer that question
It's because the engine is "not fit for the purpose ""
Thats why the STi is at the bottom of my list for my replacements for my Nismo and Ciivc EX GT
It really annoys me that Subaru made a fantastic product with the orginal impreza and totally screwed it up in later years
Why should someone pay 25k + and have a engine rebuilt after a few thousand miles ?
09 August 2014, 08:10 AM
#21
IN light of warranty you do need to be careful about how you say the engine ran without oil - there is a chance they may use this as a excuse to void the warranty. Of course it has no oil, but the problem is its oil consumption which was so excessive that it used it to the point it caused a failure- we know that, most good mechanics know that, but pen pushers and desk-drivers don't.
So you need to make a point of how much oil the engine was using...receipts and bill for top-up oil will be handy just to back up your case...but obviously make sure its a grade/spec approved by Subaru before handing over any evidence. Also written evidence of previous complaints about the oil use.
So you need to make a point of how much oil the engine was using...receipts and bill for top-up oil will be handy just to back up your case...but obviously make sure its a grade/spec approved by Subaru before handing over any evidence. Also written evidence of previous complaints about the oil use.
Last edited by ALi-B; 09 August 2014 at 08:11 AM.
09 August 2014, 09:58 AM
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If you see one do that again. Tell him not to put it on sports# and do test again in sports.
If they get 335-340 they is an issue with the map
IMHO.
It would be good to get Tony's thread back on topic, we don't need a parallel 2.5 failure thread which this is sadly turning in to!
You should all remember this particular engine failure wasn't ringland. It was a cracked/fractured piston ring. Tony had been complaining to his dealer about the erratic oil use and performance issues for an extended period and as such, I would say he was unlucky, in just the same way as the owner of a Audi, BMW, Mercedes or any other marque would be to suffer an unexpected engine failure.
From my understanding Tony's repair was done under warranty, that he decided to then forge it once out of warranty is besides the point. Clearly there is more to this failure given that there is an NDA in place, but this probably happens with many other manufacturers.
Let's be honest, thrash the knackers off any engine, feed it the wrong fuel, don't oil and water it treat it rough and it will break. I am not saying this is why the 2.5s have gone bang, but it could be a contributing factor in some cases, but not this one.
There is clearly a weakness with the 2.5 some physical as detailed in other threads regarding the rigidity of the blocks, but this could also ironically be as a direct result of the engine map done to meet emissions requirements. Oh and the 2.5 lump was fitted to suit the US market requirement and that market along with Australia is somewhat larger than the UK, which is why we get the 2.5 but such is life. Agreed IM have not showered themselves with glory here, but rather than looking at them in isolation ask yourselves are they really any worse than any other importer.
If you have owned a 2.5 from new and driven it to enjoy it and it's gone bang that's ****, if you've bought a used 2.5 the risk of previous abuse could be high and that could increase the risk of a failure but that applies to any car not just a Subaru 2.5....
You should all remember this particular engine failure wasn't ringland. It was a cracked/fractured piston ring. Tony had been complaining to his dealer about the erratic oil use and performance issues for an extended period and as such, I would say he was unlucky, in just the same way as the owner of a Audi, BMW, Mercedes or any other marque would be to suffer an unexpected engine failure.
From my understanding Tony's repair was done under warranty, that he decided to then forge it once out of warranty is besides the point. Clearly there is more to this failure given that there is an NDA in place, but this probably happens with many other manufacturers.
Let's be honest, thrash the knackers off any engine, feed it the wrong fuel, don't oil and water it treat it rough and it will break. I am not saying this is why the 2.5s have gone bang, but it could be a contributing factor in some cases, but not this one.
There is clearly a weakness with the 2.5 some physical as detailed in other threads regarding the rigidity of the blocks, but this could also ironically be as a direct result of the engine map done to meet emissions requirements. Oh and the 2.5 lump was fitted to suit the US market requirement and that market along with Australia is somewhat larger than the UK, which is why we get the 2.5 but such is life. Agreed IM have not showered themselves with glory here, but rather than looking at them in isolation ask yourselves are they really any worse than any other importer.
If you have owned a 2.5 from new and driven it to enjoy it and it's gone bang that's ****, if you've bought a used 2.5 the risk of previous abuse could be high and that could increase the risk of a failure but that applies to any car not just a Subaru 2.5....
I have no gripe with Subaru UK. As mine was repaired under warranty. I changed pistons as my option original pistons were not the issue on mine.
. I'm not someone bitter trying to reverse Subaru UK dissuasion to void an Engine claim. Or "get even"
Subaru Japan needs to really review the Low oil level /low oil pressure system. as 60% of the cost of repair was preventable. IMHO
Tony
Last edited by T5NYW; 31 August 2014 at 01:15 PM.
09 August 2014, 10:09 AM
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Three times it was checked for erratic Oil usage. There was no reading that warranted an engine strip down.
I reset ODO every time I put oil in and checked Oil every 220-280miles (tankfull)
It used 4.2ltrs oil in 177 mikes.
Tony
09 August 2014, 10:16 AM
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Just one piston ring failed
Tony
09 August 2014, 12:27 PM
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So have you got a engine that now has forged internals or pistons paid for by Subaru?
+ I don't understand, why would you keep using the car when it was using that much oil?
+ I don't understand, why would you keep using the car when it was using that much oil?
09 August 2014, 05:42 PM
#30
Thats shocking mate!!
I always used to laugh at how a TVR would need a engine re-build every 20k miles!!! Now it seems newer Impreza's with the 2.5 fitted have the same problem!!
Does anyone know if the MY14 STi have the same 2.5 fitted?? Same pistons, rods, internal components etc???
I always used to laugh at how a TVR would need a engine re-build every 20k miles!!! Now it seems newer Impreza's with the 2.5 fitted have the same problem!!
Does anyone know if the MY14 STi have the same 2.5 fitted?? Same pistons, rods, internal components etc???