Carnut

I am doleing it out, I am trying to understand a issue with the subaru as a subaru enthusiast on a subaru enthusiasts site but instead find myself having to defend my curiosity.

I am not how ever trying to defend subaru for the 2.5 failures but simply trying to understand the size of the problem.

Anyway continue with this thread if you feel the need to but with a bit of luck I may be getting some facts and statistics on the matter in a week or two and along with other facts and information I have collected I will start another thread when ready based on facts not the opinion of the SN massive. I am not to sure how the numbers will look once put together but you never know they might be shockingly high which I know a lot of the SN members would love, nothing like some ammo to attack subaru enthusiasts with.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Says you with a nice line in hurling insults right left and centre

Why bother collating these figures as:

a) given your posting history I doubt anyone will take you seriously

b) The car was recalled in the US, dealer remapped in the UK and every engine builder has a list of failures as long as their arm. It's not like it's not happened and everyone has been making it up!

terzoscooby

Give Scoobyclinic a bell and ask Kev how many 2.5s he has rebuilt along with some of the other engine builders like API and RCM. I am sure the answer will be they have lost count. Warrantee info will only give the tip of the iceberg.
The plain fact is that unless you go for an aftermarket 2.5 CDB no one will recommend the 2.5 for big reliable power.

Littleted

well said unless your planning on modding it strengthening it, then it wouldnt be my choice for a long lasting fun fast car. to much of a money gamble as to if its gonna shat itself.

It spoilt my car TBH as i was always aware that when im booting it it could go pop, i had warranty to back me up but once thats gone, could you honestly afford 3 4 5k repair bill ,i couldnt so i sold it.....

abre

It would be good to get Tony's thread back on topic, we don't need a parallel 2.5 failure thread which this is sadly turning in to!

You should all remember this particular engine failure wasn't ringland. It was a cracked/fractured piston ring. Tony had been complaining to his dealer about the erratic oil use and performance issues for an extended period and as such, I would say he was unlucky, in just the same way as the owner of a Audi, BMW, Mercedes or any other marque would be to suffer an unexpected engine failure.

From my understanding Tony's repair was done under warranty, that he decided to then forge it once out of warranty is besides the point. Clearly there is more to this failure given that there is an NDA in place, but this probably happens with many other manufacturers.

Let's be honest, thrash the knackers off any engine, feed it the wrong fuel, don't oil and water it treat it rough and it will break. I am not saying this is why the 2.5s have gone bang, but it could be a contributing factor in some cases, but not this one.

There is clearly a weakness with the 2.5 some physical as detailed in other threads regarding the rigidity of the blocks, but this could also ironically be as a direct result of the engine map done to meet emissions requirements. Oh and the 2.5 lump was fitted to suit the US market requirement and that market along with Australia is somewhat larger than the UK, which is why we get the 2.5 but such is life. Agreed IM have not showered themselves with glory here, but rather than looking at them in isolation ask yourselves are they really any worse than any other importer.

If you have owned a 2.5 from new and driven it to enjoy it and it's gone bang that's ****, if you've bought a used 2.5 the risk of previous abuse could be high and that could increase the risk of a failure but that applies to any car not just a Subaru 2.5....

73henny

Maybe not 50%, but plenty on here;


http://www.aclassclub.co.uk/forum/tu...041_page1.html

http://www.aclassclub.co.uk/forum/al...topic3228.html

thenewgalaxy

Well I've also had a 2.5 go on me too, it was an early hawk with PPP.

The Porsche in question was a 997 Carrera S, with the 3.8 engine. It started running rough and got worse and worse. Noone could figure out at the garage what the problem was, and then one day was told "needs a new engine mate".

It was also discovered that all of the exhaust manifolds were rusting away too, on a car less than four years old.

Contrary to popular belief that these cars are everyday high performance cars that are super reliable, I had a very different experience and so do many contributors to threads on various car forums.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yeah those threads were mentioned earlier by me..... 11 failures

Carnut

Well finally a few other people have popped up and give some great well rounded opinions.

The issues with the 2.5 is something that is regularly brought up in threads, not just myself but also with newbies and whether we like it or not it is here and it would appear, here to stay. The problem I have is if someone on SN is to ask a question with regards to 2.5 reliability they get bombarded by the same people each time. Unfortunately the force is stong with this particular group of people and any opposing view is quickly stomped out. There are however lots of members that own and enjoy the 2.5 but are made to feel unwelcome on the site, like wise there are new members that are aware of the issues with the 2.5 but would just like to be able to have the information at hand to try and make a informed decision.

Whether the people that I have been fighting it out with are going to admit it or not there are a lot of people that are interested in having SOME facts. There is no single person that can give a full picture of the problem but I feel that rather than JUST saying don't do it they are crap and take my word for it I would much rather be able to offer up at least some statistics and figures for people to use as a guide towards understanding the issue.

To go back to my point on some people are interested in the 2.5 issues. I regularly or every so often at least talk to other members vià pm on the subject, despite a few quiet frankly bullying anyone that is interested in the issues relating to the 2.5 I will hopefully as I've mentioned be putting as much info as I can together.

The information will not be based on opinion but will be hopefully made up of official statics such as uk sales figures etc AND figures from some of the big engine builder's and information gathered from people's personal experience from this site, ie the sticky at the top of the page.

If anyone would like to add to the information then that would be great, there is a good chance that I have the info but would be willing to cross reference and add if applicable.

BROOKS1E

In a group of about 10 friends that belong to my local club, 1 has just had her Hatch engine rebuilt,another is waiting for his Hatch to let go (he is accustomed to the fact it will)and another who has a Hawk Spec D which has also decided its time for a rebuild, so thats not a great average 2 out of 10 cars or 20% failure with another being a time bomb,now im not an expert on this subject but all im trying to say is that from my experience of my friends cars its obvious that the amount of failures is pretty high but in fairness in the club there is another Hawk WRX that has got very high millage on it with no probs at all !

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

Chris you don't even own an impreza let alone a 2.5 one so what does it matter?
you obviously don't listen as you have been told numerous times by owners etc the issues.

hodgy0_2

But that is 1 rebuild, (did it blow up or they just "decided" to as well) where is the other one

All I can see is one person "waiting" and another "deciding"

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Here he is

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Unmolested RB320 let go at either 32 or 37k

Head gaskets went so was sent to Paul to repair, when he got in to it there was 2 cracked ringlands iirc and the rings had stuck inside the pistons.

Carnut

There is a engine issue

but very funny coming from a guy who was with in a inch of buying a hawkeye wagon.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes, but you are completely missing the point. I know there is an engine issue and would have been buying with my eyes wide open and playing the percentage game as a lot less WRXs have blown up than STIs.

You however seem to be on a one man mission to make it seem a lot less of an issue than it is. Well two man if you team up with XDevil as he is the same.

Carnut

No no no, not less of a issue but just to understand the size of the issue.

For example a few posts up one member talked about a FEW cars in his group of friends needing a rebuild but if you read between the lines it was only one but maybe none.

But look, I am going to pick the wife up and by the time I get back Lisa may have removed me from the site so you and you're mates have won. I have also just received a phone call from my dad to say give me the news that I've been waiting for so should have what I've been waiting for in the next week or two so no need to get my fill from the site.

Try not to be toooooo happy all at once you have all day to have a good old laugh while stroking you're cat doctor evil style.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL, you are mistaken. It's nothing personal and I am not bothered whether you go or stay mate.

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

+1

Carnut

It nothing personal, it like trying to quit smoking but I keep buying the cigs or in this case coming on the site.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

My engine drank 4.2ltrs oil in 177miles.

But My car engine was repaired under warranty. So I'm very happy, thank you Subaru UK. They also allowed me to fit forged pistons at my expense

What I'm not happy about is the lack of warning of impending doom

My main issue I was raising with this topic was.

The main task for the Oil Pump is supply enough oil to lubricate bearings. The oil went missing rather quickly but @@@@ happens !! But the pump didn't have enough Oil to lubricate bearings but enough to stop any low oil warnings. Sorry that's not good enough. IMHO

TONY

hodgy0_2

The A series engine in my 1965 mini has an oil pressure take off that goes straight to an analogue oil pressure gauge on the centre dash binnacle

Very accurate, and common mod back in the day was to fit a simple pressure switch (at a preset level) to a big red light mounted on the parcel shelf

Oil pressure guage on the right



Simple and effective

thenewgalaxy

Agreed, a bit worrying especially for a performance car, but I've been led to believe that this is a problem with many car manufacturers. I've always been led to believe that if the oil light comes on, you need a new engine.

A story I have been told by a mechanic regarding a well-known German brand is that the customer comes in, a little bemused with a car on a trailer. They recall going along the motorway at a steady speed and then the oil light comes on. And about five seconds later it goes "clang clang clang" as bits of the engine rattle out of the chrome exhaust tips.

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

I know of least five people on the last 3 years that have had rebuilds on their 2.5 engines
Don't think they put them on the master scoobynet knackered engine thread


The engine is not fit for the purpose

End off

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

agreed light on tooooooo late but my light didn't come on until engine was stopped as normal and went out on on tick over.

Engine obviously shot and BEFORE I put 4.2ltr oil in to full level

I tested started up from, cold, minus the lost 4.2 litres Oil and the big ends gone it still put out the Oil light out (on tick over Not reved up)

Now that's soooooo wrong.

Tony

abre

I agree with you Tony, but I think from what I've read elsewhere and kind of confirmed by thenewgalaxy's comment above, the problem is a systemic one with most/all manufacturers. The only real solution is to fit oil pressure gauges but that equates to extra production cost versus possible warranty claim costs. Whilst I personally think our cars, as performance cars, should probably have both oil and boost gauges, but their price point probably didn't justify the design and build costs. Just look at the cost of a set of Defis and even if you were to pay a 1/10 the cost in manufacture I think it would be classed as unwarranted cost.

Interestingly there was a comment about the old A series engine, and yes many of my old friends that used to rally minis had the big red warning light stuck on the dash fed off the pressure sender but they also had a good old Smiths pressure gauge as a more reliable indicator of what was going on. That said the general consensus was if the light came on the engine was in for a rebuild.

Perhaps the solution if, as a 2.5 owner (anyone not specifically Tony!), you are worried is to fit a pressure gauge. I'm sure there would be plenty of genuine advice on the best pickup location to best monitor the real flow pressure of the oil in the galleries.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Exactly

I have no gripe with Subaru UK. As mine was repaired under warranty. I changed pistons as my option original pistons were not the issue on mine.

. I'm not someone bitter trying to reverse Subaru UK dissuasion to void an Engine claim. Or "get even"

Subaru Japan needs to really review the Low oil level /low oil pressure system. as 60% of the cost of repair was preventable. IMHO

Tony

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Most cars are like that though. Yes its stupid, I know. Same as the temp guages that stay in the middle and do nothing between 70 and 105 degrees.

VAG are a bit more clever about it, well, in a roundabout way...the oil pressure light is initiated by the ECU, but it has to see low oil pressure for a preset period of time before it'll tell the driver anything is wrong. As I found out on a A4 with half a pint of oil in the sump, no dipstick and a electronic oil level indicator saying it was overfilled!

So really that's more useless than the old fashioned 2psi pressure switch.

STI Glenn

Really no point having a oil pressure light like said when it comes on engine no good .Fit oil pressure and temp gauges Tony

BROOKS1E

On the 1st Hatch the head gasket went and ringland failure i believe.......on the Spec D the head gasket has gone(im not sure of what other damage has or has not been caused) so when i said..... decided it was time for a rebuild, i meant the CAR decided not the owner and as for the 2nd Hatch the bloke that owns it knows its going let go judging by the amount that has gone before but yes i concede that it may not but would you put your mortgage on it not going?