MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

So basically my engine needs rebuilding or replacing and im totally confused on which route to take. Its currently a CDB with 70K on it with a knocky bottom end.
My intention is to keep the car pretty standard, I know everyone says that but I really am with this one. I've had fast classics but with this car circa 300 ponies will be just fine. I've finished sorting the rest of the car out so now it just needs a motor.

I've spoken to a couple of builders and general consensus is to refresh my engine using standard parts (except for ACL bearings) im looking at £2000. Had a quote today and for £1400 he'll refresh my block and heads but new water pump etc is on top. Plus that would be using my crank. So by the time its done it'll be near 2K for a pretty much standard classic STI engine.
The other option is to buy a good used newage STI short motor. Theres a few on here for well under a grand for instance. They are a pretty strong unit so I'd of thought one with 50K on it would be a pretty safe bet would it not ???
Will my V2 heads just bolt straight on or is there more to it than that ???

The benefit of buying another block I suppose is that I could then sell my CDB for circa £300 to recoup some of the cost....
But the downside is it won't be original and with it being a pretty rare car do I want to fit a non original engine to it.

I wish I was in a postion to just send it away for a forged build but after recently putting the best part of a years wages into my house im just not. I want a reliable motor at lowish power for not huge amounts of money, lets not forget its only a bloody old classic at the end of the day

dabiscuit

What about getting an engine from a breakers then spending the spare money (if any) on getting someone qualified to go over it?

fez the plodder

Do you just want to keep the car running??? If so go for the sti short motor and keep your cdb until you can raise the cash to put the original motor back in??
If not I'd go for your block to be done..... But that s just my opinion

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Putting a newagae motor would be my choice but wouldn't you need to fit newagae ecu and wiring loom which is a pain of a job for it to be done right.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

No wouldn't need to change my ecu or loom as I'd intend on using my stock heads. Just not sure if its as easy as just bolting them on.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Simply bolt the heads on Matt, you need to get the correct head gaskets though to keep the CR right.

Speak to Alyn about the gaskets.

Keep your CDB, and when funds allow rebuild it, IMO.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Sti bottom end and just bolt your heads onto it, very straight forward and easy job. Just get standard subaru gaskets and gates belt kit, time it up jobs a good un.

Loads of guides/how to's on utube, it's easy matty honestly a man of your mechanical knowledge will p1ss it.

First dibs on your cdb.

Not sure on the cr of newage sti bottom end when mating to your heads so as above Alyn is your man, very good on prices and advice too, he may even skim the heads and bolt it up at a reasonable rate too, there is also Tim Farmer who could give you a hand if you bottle it.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

The word "just" should not exist on threads like this Matty. For example "just" whack a newage bottom end in. What about new headbolts, gaskets or skimming the heads which would mean stripping them down, relapping valves, stem seals etc etc. Then of course once it's in, what about a remap on a V2 which would require a remappable ECU and of course a map at around £300. Then there's the inlet manifold, surely you'd overhaul that? Which then means gaskets for throttle body, injectors, ICV etc.
For you Matty, considering how long you spent finding an original RA (or as much as possible) and was concious of remap's on the one's you were looking at you will want it done right.

My suggestion? Something like this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Imp...item41800aba27

A cheap ****ty engine that's complete almost. Sod a remap, if it goes bang then who cares. In the mean time you've got your CDB to do what you like with, collect parts, speak to people about prices etc and then eventually put the original engine back in.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Mapping is not a problem chap. ESL
But I hear ya on everything else.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

What sort of money do you chaps think im looking at to do it. Obviously the circa £700 for the block is a given but then like kwik says above, gaskets, head bolts etc etc.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

I'd reckon a grand, possibly a bit more all done.

Throttle body, ICV, inlet manifold gaskets aren't expensive, but, it all tots up. I've got those all here, but, you can't have them, they are for mine when I eventually rotate my inlet manifold.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Do V7's have AVCS? I'm just looking at this. Long engine would avoid the need for headgaskets/skimming etc.

https://www.scoobynet.com/subaru-par...ngine-54k.html

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Have you spoken to David at API?

Good FREE advice will be had........

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

David and I aren't best of buds.

The thing with calling engine builders is its just that, they want to build an engine. None of them would advise buying a second hand block and bolting my heads on.

The Sheep Worrier

iTrader: (2)

Interesting thread this. Sorry to hear of your existing engine knocking, and good luck with whichever route you choose.

Fwiw, a friend of mine rally's a v4 ra, did four rally's on the original before it blew, he went and bought a standard 2.5 for £400, chucked it and has done a lot of events since, with no issues at all ( I know it is hard to believe lol). I mentioned mapping etc, and his attitude was that it'll cost him £300 plus, what's the point when he can just quite literally bang in another one for not much more, and even if mapped correctly there's no guarantees that it'll last.

Anyway, good luck.

Rob

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yes but it's had the head gaskets done presumably because the originals let go, and we all know what that means don't we.

Oh and it is just bolt them on, it's not difficult working on these cars or the engines, just do your research, think it through, take your time and double check everything.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Personally I'd replace the short motor with a newage sti 2 litre but I wouldn't re-fit the v2 heads I would find a set of version 3 sti heads to compliment it and I'd also fit some ARP studs and 1.1mm head gaskets just to future proof the motor. CDB's are overated these days unless you're aiming for 750bhp, the newage semi closed deck is good enough for more power than you would ever want or need.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Finding a good used motor is the next step then. Theres a couple on here but they have already been removed from vehicles which is a little worrying. I'd preferably like to see/hear a running motor before shelling out 7or8 hundred quid.
Im expecting a call from Alyn later so I'll pick his brains a bit I think.

Andy Stevens

I think he might be missing the point of mapping. If the spec is away from standard the car won't run correctly and will cost him time on stage. Rallying is an expensive hobby so funds should be directed towards things that will directly influence results.

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

The only advice I have regarding second hand engines, gearboxes etc. Never buy it in "good" condition. ALWAYS assume they are spares or repairs,

You dont know what is going on in side them and you will need to inspect all the components before fitting anyway.

I got stung like this, and would always buy something with the view of stripping and rebuilding/replacing as required. I got had on an engine that was advertised as newly rebuilt, turns out the shells werent torqued up correctly, spent 3 months fitting the engine and new turbo kits etc and it drove less than a mile before the shells made a break for it. So I spent the next 3 months stripping it all apart again and saving up to get it done properly.

Also the same with a "perfect" condition gearbox that crunched into 3rd on fast changes that needed a rebuild.

So from now on I just assume it has to be stripped and repaired before it goes anywhere near my car

Andy Stevens

Isn't the inlet manifold stud pattern different between the model years? We've always used v3/4 Sti heads Matty and had great results with them as you know.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

The v2 manifold won't fit v3/4 heads and vice versa. That gamble could pay off.

Buying a second hand engine will always be a gamble. The only alternative would be to build one from scratch and speaking from experience doing maths on paper is never the same as doing it in reality. Because there's no point skimping when you're building a future proof engine, so it's brand new parts as much as you can. For example as the engine has spun a shell you will want a new oil modine, look up how much a new one is....!

Andy Stevens

We have definitely used v3/4 heads with a v1/2 inlet manifold before, is there some adaptation required? I'll go into the garage and dig out the manifolds to see.

Andy Stevens

Ah that explains it then. This Matty, v3/4 Sti long engine with your inlet. Stronger, bettter flow, etc.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

I could probably pick up a classic STI long motor for say,,,, £500. But is this the best route to go, at the end of the day its just a standard classic motor like the broken one in my car. I thought that if I used a newage STI motor at least it should be pretty safe around the power levels im looking at.
Whatever happens I've got to use my inlet manifold as I want the car to look as stock as possible.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Go forged on the cdb, you know it makes sense. I take it this is a long term ownership?. The original engine in a standard car, with the original manifold etc. all refreshed and solid for peace of mind.

In the mean time chuck a cheapy in. There was an early wrx long engine in the selling section for £190 the other day.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Yes I'll be keeping this car for a long time but my head just can't warrant a 3K+ build on an old classic that isnt worth much more than that.

Andy Stevens

Big difference between v1/2 and v3/4 motors. Much better heads and I believe uprated internals? I would say best case scenario is find a v3/4 sti engine (will have 6s or 75 ECU) still running in a write off. That will be all the motor you will need I think. Easiest way from there is to put your inlet mani on and we'll use v1/2 management.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

It's an RA isn't it? Might not be worth much now but it will be in years to come.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

No adaption required 1-4 are the same and 5 & 6 are different due to the spacing between the inlet ports on the heads being further apart on version 5 & 6 making the manifold longer in length.