MattN

seeing as there are some Saxo experts kicking about, a friend at work is looking for a VTR but a nice VTS has come up - the problem is the VTS owner (obviously keen to sell) is coming out with all sorts of stuff.

I though except from one being a * valver the cars were identical - gearbox, suspension interior etc.????

Am I right?

LG John

Very wrong! Packaging wise the VTS comes with a lot more (can't remember everything - see the brouchure), ABS, passenger airbag, side airbags and lots of other nice touches such as oil temp gauge (useful on high rever) - this all might have changed since I got my car a year ago. The VTR has a lighter engine so apparently turns in better but the VTS has the best wheel/tyre size for handling 195/45 15. Not sure if there is any difference in the gearbox and suspension, I'd imagine not. The real difference is in the engine - prior to Crail this weekend I thought there wasn't a huge difference on the road but there actually is. My VTS stuffed a modded VTR over the quarter mile - once you've got more than 4000rpm showing they just fly. There was a bigger difference in distance between my VTS and the VTR than between the VTS and a standard scooby (if that helps give perspective) No question I'd pay the extra money to get a VTS everytime and they are also far rarer on the road. I suppose it depends on the insurance though as the VTS is effectivly double that of the VTR, for anyone under 21 you can't beat the VTR as an introduction to hot-hatchdom. If your mate is in to modding I think the R's can be made to go as good as the S's relatively easy - but that said the S's also respond well to modding I believe. Its all down to what the perspective buyer is prioritising as to some people the VTR would be the best buy and others the VTS.

MattN

well the seller is saying different suspension, gearbox, larger alloys etc. which is all wrong.

They also seem to think that the 16valaver is twice as fast as the 8 valver!!!

ianc

depends what you like - despite the extra power I found the 16v head of the VTS too slow to get into the power band, tho its awesome on A roads.

I had a VTR, and on tight twisty short straight then corner then short straight etc I found the VTR more gutsy and "fun".

If they like the long open roads where it's full on the gas through corners then go for the VTS, tight twisty country lanes I'd favour the VTR.

Of course, what they should do is ignore my waffling and drive both, see what they think.

There are lots of mods out there for both, but (in my opinion, please lower your flamethrower) a VTR with supercharger (140bhp I think) would be about perfect.

IanC

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Well that's because they do!

The VTS comes with 15" rims now, not 14's, the suspension is different, the gear ratios are different, the steering is different, etc...

It's not just a VTR with a 16v engine in it, there's more too it.

The 16 valver is also a fair bit quicker than the 8v. I have a 106 GTi and my sister has a VTR, there is no comparison!

ianc

prove it Not saying you are wrong but certainly all the tuners I dealt with stated everything was identical gearbox \ suspension \ brakes \ steering etc. The VTS *is* quicker than the VTR, but apart from the ABS and engine there is nothing mechanical, I'm 99.9% sure of this.

Now the 106GTI may be different again in other components, but I never considered the 106 as I could not work out how the 106 Rallye was slower 0-60 than the VTR yet had less toys and costed more!

(and the VTS is *twice as quick* as the VTR? Give me a recordable figure that is double or half of the others?)

MattN

it's a 98 so the wheels are the same.

when I went to a dealer he stated they were the same except the engine they were the same.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

The gear ratios are definataley different, the VTS has much shorter gearing than a VTR, the steering is lighter on a VTR (more assistance), the brakes are the same except for ABS, the wheels on the earlier cars are the same, but 15's on new shape VTS's, thew VTS sits lower than a VTR as standard but same shocks.

Seriously, this is the truth!

As for a 106 Rallye mk2, whoever said they were slower than a VTR is telling porkies!

More power, less weight, shorter gearing, etc...


106 Rallye mk2 -

Power - 103bhp @ 6200rpm,
Torque - 97lb/ft @ 3500rpm,
Weight - 865kg,
0-60 - 8.5secs,
0-100 - 25.6secs
Speed - 121mph,


Saxo VTR mk1-

Power - 90bhp @ 5600rpm,
Torque - 100lb/ft @ 3000rpm,
Weight - 928kg,
0-60 - 10.5secs,
0-100 - 32.7secs
Speed - 115mph,


Not got stats for a mk2 VTR, they have 98bhp.

ianc

no-one "said" - twas based on brochures \ official tech details from dealers - this was around 98 S, the VTR (90) was about 9.5 (not 10.5) and the Rallye quoted just over (10.1 I think) - could get over the fact that with less kit it weighed more and cost more!

It definately had the 90bhp engine at that time. Shame cos I really fancied a rallye in that pale blue. The above +2 yrs free insurance + I was a Citroen fan anyhows, so went for the VTR. Never a blisteringly quick car, but had a hoot in it, if it wasn't for seeing crash tests (since selling it in 2000) I'd have another as a weekend toy. Prob is of course that many 106\saxo owners *do* drive like muppets, and there is no individuality to them anymore, everyone has one.

Just my tuppence.

saxodriver

there may not be individuality to standard cars, but as for modified?

the range of kit available is expanding every day, plus people are making other bits of kit fit as well, and although some mods are popular/common, I dont think I've seen two cars anywhere near alike.

ianc

I had a black VTR, with serious tints, two stage rear spoiler, and white (yes white!) 16"s, when I had it most were silver \ blue and mine did stand out a little, but these days I see so many with the same mods, mesh grille etc, other day even saw a black one with white alloys, had to look twice thought it was my old car, but sadly not.

Please don't think I'm Saxo bashing, I loved it, but I feel it has slipped to the masses now and the majority (tho not all) are giving it a bad name. Maybe I've just got older

ianc

Ahh, whilst feeling nostalgic - here it was, only had changed the alloys at this point...

LG John

Still not sure if there are differences in the VTS/R suspension and gearbox etc, maybe slightly different settings but the same equipment - I don't know? I doubt the VTS sits any lower, mines is standard and sits too high too look brilliant! Some people drop them too far though and they look crap!

Can't believe stupid claims of twice as fast were made, a scooby wouldn't even be twice as fast as a VTR!!! In fairness though the VTS really is a hell of a lot quicker in a straight line and I'd say through the twisties too. As long as you keep the revs up your ok, I seldom have drop below 4000rpm on any road when I'm booting it. Best thing to do is drive them back to back, I suspect the extra thrust of the VTS after 4000rpm would sway most people