NBW

Ironically, now that I have my Scooby just the way I want it, I'm beginning to think of changing to something that is a bit cheaper to run by the end of this year. I'm planning ahead in case some of the cars I've short listed take a while to source.

I'm thinking of importing, and because of the cars I'm considering, the 'cost-to-change' should be negligible. I do about 15K a year, so reducing the cost per mile by, say 20p, will save about £3K.

As well as lower running costs, my next car needs to be practical but not huge, good handling but reasonably comfortable and have good overtaking ability. If the latter can be enhanced easily by mods, then so much the better (in case I get bored )

So my vague short list is this:

Golf GTi 1.8T (looks expensive but holds value well).
Seat Leon 1.8vT (tons of kit, excellent value and holds value)
Skoda Octavia RS (big car, tons of kit, excellent value but depreciates more than Leon/Golf).
Alfa 147 2.0 Lusso (not as economical or as quick as the VW group cars, but cheap to buy, still quite a rare sight).
Clio 172 (best bang for bucks, but possibly too small).

I don't think any of the above will give me the buzz that I get from the Scooby, but will probably be satisfying cars to own nonetheless.

I'm also thinking of Golf PD 150, but I'm not sure that there's much advantage here given the relatively low mileage I do and the higher initial purchase cost. PD130 with 17" wheels & sports suspension may be? This has group 10 insurance so seems a more sensible option than the 150.

As for the Civic Type-R, group 18 insurance puts me right off.

The other option is to re-finance my Scooby to reduce the monthly cost. The loan company are quite happy to do this, and I know this will cost me more long term , but it means I could keep the Scooby a while longer and put food on the table !

Any suggestions / thoughts / comments ?

Cheers
Tim

lpitt

Errr... who quoted group 18 insurance on the Type-R? I've got one and it's a group 16 according to my insurer!

Laurence

FreeT

All the mags i've seenb say it's group 18 also.

Don't forget the Focus ST170 £16k and Astra coupe turbo 1year old £14k and golf V6 4 motion 1 year old £16k (better than 1.8t golf) just some suggestions.

Carlos The Jackel

Hmmmm don't know if I want admit this but I bought Diesel Car magazine this week. Its has the Golf Tdi 150Bhp version. 0-60 in 7.3 as std but have chipped it to run at 185Bhp. On a Motorway jorney they got about 50MPG (185bhp version). Need to double check those figures but impressive anyway (excuse spelling mistakes)

NBW

FreeT - don't really fancy a Ford or Vauxhall - I know they're good cars but too many years driving company cars with these badges on. Like the idea of a V6 4Motion, but can't see it being much cheaper to run, may be on servicing but fuel consumption will be just as bad as the Scoob (I used to have a VR6).

Carlos - the PD150 is a £1K more than the 1.8T and the same insurance group, and I estimate that it would only save me £500-800 per year in fuel, so it might take 2 years before I recouped the extra outlay in the first place. Also the PD's are in demand so it would be hard to reduce that £1K margin, although relatively easy to knock down the price on a 1.8T.

Just to add to the confusion, the Association of British Insurers lists the Civic Type R as group 17.

Cheers
Tim

PaulT00

Interesting that you're thinking about a Leon Cupra or an Octavia RS - essentially the same car in different clothes...

My other half has a new Leon Cupra, I've got a MY00 scoob. Before I got the scoob I was tempted by a Leon. And they're very nice cars, don't get me wrong. But nowhere near as much fun as a scoob. I was surprised when I test drove a Leon because I'd expected it to be quicker than my old BM325 - and it wasn't. Didn't pull nearly as hard as the spec would suggest.

Pros: much smoother and quieter than the scoob, vastly better fuel economy, much nicer interior and lots of little "quality" touches.
Cons: slower, handling isn't nearly as good, wet grip is terrible, traction control feels like the car's being shaken by the scruff when it cuts in.

I have to admit I like the cupra - we're sharing cars at the moment and alternating every couple of days, and when we're both in the car I always drive whichever one it is - but it's nice to get back in the scoob.

Now if only Subaru did a scoob with the smoothness and interior build quality of a leon cupra...

lpitt

When I was looking to sell my MY98 back in November for something slightly cheaper to run, I also considered:

Golf GTi 1.8T: Had one before, handling too vague and not quick enough. Nice interior though.
Seat Leon 1.8vT: Borrowed a colleagues. Good performance although not as good as you'd think. Great spec. I was tempted with this.
Alfa 147 2.0 Lusso: Nice looks inside and out. Not very economical and didn't like the handling. Not all that sporty.
Clio 172: Quick but too small.
Civic Type-R: Bought this one. Unusual looks, but a rare sight. Cheaper to insure than the Scoob, cheaper to run than the Scoob (worst MPG=29 when REALLY pushing it, Average MPG=33)

Obviously I wouldn't say 'go for this one' but the Honda still brings a smile to my face and is a car (as was the Impreza) that sits in the garage saying 'drive me'. That was the problem with the others - they got you from A-B but didn't leave you looking forward to the drive from B-A!

(I also drove the Gold TD130 but it had the same problems as the 1.8T just in a more economical package).

Hope this helps

Laurence

NBW

PaulT00,

I drove a Leon before I got the Scoob, agree with your comments. I know it's not going to be as much fun, but my priorities are changing. I've also been doing some advanced driver training that, perversely, is convincing me that I don't need a car like the Scoob to drive progressively on the road or to enjoy my driving, and that all that performance mostly goes to waste. Dull, I know, but true.

Incidently, IMHO the Leon makes a better buy than the Octavia, unless you need the extra space. Although they cost roughly the same (OK the Leon's a bit more if you add leather, the RS has part leather as standard), the Leon holds it's value better.

Financially both are far better propositions than the Golf. Spec a Golf GTi 1.8T to the same level as the RS are you're talking close to £19K . OK, the Golf will hold it's value well, but you'll lose the £1000's you spent on options (leather, 17" wheels, climate) when you sell/part-ex it .

Laurence,

Very interesting feedback about the Civic - didn't think it would be that economical. Isn't it a bit manic on the motorway (I read somewhere about 20mph/1000rpm in top)?

Actually drove past the Honda dealer on the way back from the VW one today, wish I'd popped in now.

Cheers guys
Tim

lpitt

Yep, 20mph per 1000rpm in 6th for the Civic. It will also accelerate in 6th from about 40mph (albeit not exactly quickly but at least smoothly and noticably).

Thing is that it has two personalities. Drive it manically and keep it in the VTEC for low mpg, but for normal motorway cruising I get about 36mpg on a motorway run with the record being 38mpg and that's higher than Honda reckon even with me averaging 80mph!

I've been very impressed from an economy point of view. If only I could get out of this **** habit of recording it that's held over from my Scooby owning days!

When I first got my Honda I was impressed. Now it's got some miles under the belt and loosened up I'm every bit as pleased with it as I was with the Impreza. Bottom line for me on choosing a car (remembering the list I tested) was that it had to:

a. Put a smile on my face when I needed it.
b. Sit in the garage and give off 'drive me' vibes

The Scooby did this, the Civic does it as well

On the insurance point. I've just been requoted for this year at Group 17. The Scooby was £798 including induction, exhaust and Class1 business. The Civic will be £615 with the same (I've added the mods to the insurance even though they aren't done yet!).

Laurence

NBW

Test drove 2 Golfs today - 1.8T and PD150. Dealer was excellent, gave me the keys for the 1.8T and asked when I'd be back to test the diesel. Both cars came with leather, which I'd said I was considering - top marks to the dealer for making the effort to get these.

More impressed with the 1.8T than I expected to be. Very refined and smooth, easy to drive. What surprised me was the mid range grunt, not comparable with the Scooby of course, but pretty good.

Driving down some familiar B-roads, it was pretty easy to unsettle the chassis, on tarmac that the Scooby handles no problem. No surpise there, but overall though not bad. Disappointed with the fuel consumption though - 30.7mpg over a variety of roads, including a bit of motorway. I think though I could have changed up a bit earlier at times - just not used to such a quiet car!

Swop over into the PD150. First impression not good - rattles like a taxi from start up. However, once on the road, the torque is impressive. This would be one very quick car A to B. Plenty of pull for overtaking, and not too noisy once over about 40mph.

Back at the dealer, 42.7mpg overall, if anything going quicker, with more overtakes than the petrol (including a Fiat Punto doing 30-35 in a NSL who honked me as I went past - some people are bizarre ). But a bit too noisy at low speed for my liking.

Top marks to the saleman again, he was with another customer but took 5 minutes to ask me what I thought, no pressure, no hassle. When I said I preferred driving the diesel but it was too unrefined, he said he would get hold of a PD130 for me to try but it might be a Bora.

After lunch off to the Alfa dealer, to test drive a 147 2.0 Selespeed. Bit more restrained this time, due to having wife and saleman in car, as well as having to learn how to use the gearbox.

Very impressed with the Alfa, well built and good quality, very nearly up to the Golf IMHO. Great engine, not sure about chassis though - seemed to roll quite a lot. Liked the Selespeed once I got used to it, very smooth on downchanges and not bad on upchanges, although practice is need with the latter - it helps to lift off the throttle slightly. Full auto mode quite smooth around town.

A few niggles though: having to adjust hand position on wheels to be in reach of gear paddles; very tiny door mirrors; not sure whether the Selespeed is worth the extra (although you do get Bose speakers with subwoofer thrown in as well, making the true extra cost £1000 over the manual - assuming, of course that you actually want the Bose system); fuel consumption - forgot to reset trip computer but guess it will be similiar to Golf 1.8T.

Alfa dealer impressive though, hopefully he will let me take the car out on my own if I ask for another drive.

So after all this I'm quite keen to test the Golf/Bora PD130. Group 10 insurance, cheaper to buy, plus some interesting options. For example, on this model the 'colour concept' package is available, basically getting Recaro leather seats, aluminium dash, 16" alloys (this model comes with 15's) for LESS than the cost of leather Recaro's alone on the 1.8T/PD150, which both come with the same 16" alloys - go figure

Cheers
Tim

MattN

what's with this insurance group stuff?

They are only a guide. This is what I mean.

I had a Fiat Punto GT (Grp 14) it got broken into and I lost 2 yrs ncb taking me down to zeto ncb. I was worried what my premium would be as I was paying £880. When I checked with my broker he said it could be anywhere up to £1400 but later said he would not let it go above £1100. I still thought for a 5k punto £1.1k for insurance was not worth it. I bought a Mitisbushi FTo (Grp 20 according to my insurer). Premium £1450. Value of the car was nearly tripple, 6 insurance groups higher an import etc etc. But still a similar figure to insure.

So the groupings don't mean anything.

Double proof I had a Lexus Soarer V8 chnaged it to a 2 litre mondeo - got no money back on the insurance!!!

GraemeC

NBW - been going down very similar thought routes to you recently and was all set to buy a 150bhp PD Golf. However, on the off chance I popped into an Audi dealer and I am now in the throws of trying to import an A3 TDi (130) Sport Quattro. Built on the same chassis as the golf but nicer interior and seems just that little bit more solid. They also do a 2wd version.

NBW

Greame,

I would consider the Audi, but my expereince of their dealers in my area has been cr@p.

Importing doesn't look quite so attractive when you consider some of the part-ex prices being offered by UK dealers.

All options still open though

Cheers
Tim

NBW

MattN,

Think you need to change your broker

Tim

GraemeC

I have only had really cr@p part-ex deals offered by UK dealers, basically they don't want a Scoob on their forecourt and would only look to shift it within the trade.
On top of this I am looking to save around £5k on a fully loaded A3 1.9 TDi (130) Sport Quattro over UK pirce - should beat any trade-in!

logiclee

Tim,

Not 100% sure about the specs on the 147 regarding suspension settings but I've recently purchased a 156 Selespeed Veloce. I drove a Lusso spec version and wasn't impressed with the handling. The dealer turned me towards the Veloce spec which has lowered and stiffer suspension and the body gets side skirts. The handling of this spec is in a different league to the lusso pack and the ride doesn't suffer too badly.

Some of you may remember that I sold my Scoob because of the harsh ride and my wifes back condition but the Alfa 156 Veloce is fine.
I seem to be getting around 32mpg from the 2.0 TwinSpark (10 mile trip to work and mixed driving) although you do need at least 3500rpm to get decent power from the variable vale timeing system. The performance and economy of the 156 and 147 is not that different.

The build quality is a lot better than I expected, everything works, feels solids and there are no rattles. Dealers have been first class up to yet but not had to use the in anger.

And just to add it takes a couple of weeks to get used to the Selespeed but once you've mastered it you'll never want a manual again!

Lee