GlesgaKiss

I've been looking at Audi S8s on Pistonheads. They are cars that you never really hear people talking about, although they look pretty good value for money now.

Has anyone any experience of these? How do they compare to the likes of an M5 of similar age? Or are they a different class altogether, i.e more like a high spec 7 series, and built more for luxury than speed?

I'm sure it's an S8 in the film Ronan. Looks the dogs b*llocks in that.


Cheers

Alan

Reffro

I've owned mine for coming up 3 months now. Bought it in preference to an E39 M5.

The car itself is fantastic. I have an 02-reg 360hp Final edition on 20" wheels. Huge spec on the later cars. They drive beautifully, very neutral, fantastic traction of course, tend to understeer right on the limit. Not rocketship fast off the line thanks to the Auto transmission, Mid to Low 6's to 60mph, but once on the roll they are plenty quick enough. Ride comfort is good, full sports set-up, so not limo soft but the body control it gives is excellent. The body itself is all-alloy, so no rust.

I love mine, its a real Jekyll and Hyde car. One minute you can do the armchair comfort cruising, next you can bang it down two cogs and run it up to the 7000rpm limit. I moved from an E46 330i coupe to the S8, in all respects the S8 is better, faster in a straight line, faster in the corners too, its astonishing how good it is, because as you say, its a very large car, 5 metres plus long.

A few things to bear in mind, transmissions are a known weakness. Brakes are only reasonable, they need a typical big Audi push to actually work. Its big car too, so not ideal in multi-story car parks or confined spaces.

Overall an exceptional car, which everyone I know who has seen it has loved it. Its a very classy motor without any negative preconceptions or stigma. Plus they tend to be owned by a more sympathetic style of driver shall we say.

If you want to ask any specific questions use the forums:-

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Audi A8/S8 - Tyresmoke Forums

Reffro

Forget to compare it to the M5.

The S8 is bigger, much more comfortable. better spec'd usually. Last of the S8's are 360hp, 4wd obviously, all Auto's no Manual.

I drove both back to back on the same day. The M5 is faster, no doubt about it. But on the roads the S8 is more planted, easy to place. I loved the M5, but always had the nagging doubt that I'd be driving it everywhere at 80mph plus, otherwise it didn't feel alive. The Audi will do the quick stuff brilliantly too, but had the ability to make me smile when I'm just rolling along. I don't feel the need to race everywhere, as I enjoy the journey in the Audi so much, I don't mind it taking 5-10 mins longer.

As for the potential gremlins, M5 Vanos vs the S8 gearbox, its a close call. Both cost about the same to fix and are as likely to occur.

Overall I chose the S8 because it was the more special of the two. The interior is fabulous, way ahead of the E39. Plus it looks fantastic on the outside too. When I thought about it, there too many M5's out there, some good, some bad and some chavved and that was enough to steer me towards the Audi. Everybody knows it from Ronin and all they say is cool car, they genuinely respect it.

Hoppy

I have an S4 Tip, which has the same 4.2 V8 and transmission. I would describe it in similar terms to Reffro's S8, best things about it are the engine, 4WD poise and build. Worst things are economy and nose heavy handling. Audi has obviously gone to great lengths to remove any feedback from the steering, and they have done a fantastic job there

I bought it in preference to an E46 M3 and an M5 didn't come into it, so I can't comment. From what I know of my S4, I can only think an S8 MY02 for under £10k would be an absolute bargain.

Reffro, very interested to hear that your Tip revs to 7k (does it actually?) and about gearbox problems. My S4 is redlined at 7k, but will not rev past 6750 under any circumstances, which how Audi programmed the Tip cars, for reliability reasons.

GlesgaKiss

Thanks for the in-depth replies. The gearbox issue would really put me off.

Like the E39 M5, if you're buying the car for what would be considered a bargain price of circa 10k now, and you're having to spend thousands of pounds months down the line, it isn't so much of a bargain after all.

Although the same could be said about a classic Impreza now. You could pick up a mint Sti for 5k and have to spend 2+k on an engine rebuild if you're unlucky.

Reffro

The gearbox problems are mostly seen on the 5-speed ZF unit. The Torque converter seems to be the weak link. Being a 4wd with 360hp I think places more demands on it, as there is no slip from the tyres (except in the snow), the converter is working harder. This unit is used without problem by BMW on the 3/5/7 series, but then they can always spin an inside tyre if you give it too much. Its supposed to be a sealed for life unit, though some owners do drain the fluid and replace the filters. The problems aren't predictable, though the changing of the fluid has triggered problems for some. Mine is untouched and works fine. I think the problems might be overstated, after all, if you have a problem you are more likely to be posting on a forum, than if the car is running fine.

Hoppy, the engine in our cars are different units I think. Mine is the 4.2l 40 valve unit, I thought the S4 uses the later 32 valve unit. Maybe they learnt their lesson with the S8's and built a bit more margin into the S4. I know mine will go right up to 7K before it thinks of changing, well according to the rev counter at least. It has absolutely no hesitation in doing it also, its the most rev-happy auto I've driven. Its weird seeing a big motor like mine spinning that hard, but boy does it sing.

G00ner

A friend of mine had one almost from new for about 8 years and it had around 150k on it when he sold it last year.

He drove it pretty hard and I believe it had no problems at all other than thirst and Audi dealers, otherwise a very stealthy and well built missile.

Reffro

Yeah I haven't mentioned the fuel economy, or to be more specific lack of economy......

14mpg stuck in London, 18-20mpg on average, 24-27mpg on a run.

But who gives a monkey about that, when I have huge smile on my face every time I get behind the wheel.

Hoppy

GK, I really wouldn't worry about the gearbox. I've spent countless hours researching reliability issues, posted on several forums, and quizzed Audi. Nothing. I'm going to get it remapped to the red line when I've got some time and money, and the tuner that does it, in Oxford, has been putting huge power through Tips for ages with no worries.

Reffro, thanks for the info. S4 Tip is six speed. Engine is the 5-valve jobbie; it's only the RS4 with 32 valves I think.

sbk1972

Mmmm Audi and gearboxes. I recently brought a A6 Allroad and discovered that had the same torque converter issues as many other audis. Seems like the seals in the torque converter slowly weaken, causing the pressure in the box to raise, eventaully blowing it, or knocking out the valves that give you reverse.

So, if I was you, before you buy, get the car connected up to VAG.COM and see what error codes are there. If there's any mention of torque converter lockup issues, then walk away.

Also, the S8 suffered from reaer diff problems. I remember a few years back looking into these cars as I was quite tempted. Gearbox and diff issues were the main issues.

There was a S8 on pistonheads that looked lovely, despite having the red interior, which looked a bit over the top.

The S8 in Ronin was the older model, the newer facelift version looks great in silver, with the bigger alloys !

Anyway, before buying any car, get it VAG.com first, and see what problems its got.

SBK

Spooky Mulder

That's what comes from being truly front engined (i.e. engine weight in front of the front axle) like a 911 in reverse. I presume the S8 is the same as other Audi's in this respect?

Someone once wrote - like pushing a pendulum along from the narrow end!

Hoppy

LOL You're the one with the dodgy layout! A 911 is like trying to throw a dart backwards And it's RWD Beemers that have the pendulum problem. 4WD pulls you along as well as pushes you along, which is why the best 911s have it. (Haha only joking ) God made that space between the front wheels.

The problem with my S4 is both the weight of the engine, and the position, though it's actually quite far back, and that hefty Tip is right in the cabin. By all accounts, fully front engined cars, transverse hatch motors slung right across in front, should not handle at all. But they do. And by the same token John's GTR shouldn't be too dynamic, yet it can hold its own against mid-engined cars.

But with my Audi, the point is made with the RS4 which they've done a comprehensive job on, shifting the engine back a couple of inches, deleting the heavy auto box, fitting alloy bonnet and wings, and revising the geometry and suspension. This includes a stiffer ARB, which made a useful difference when I fitted one on my Scoob. I'll get one sometime. The new S4 also improves cornering by doing even more things with the rear end, like the diff that powers the ouside wheel, rather than braking the inside one.

Technology seems to have a way of overcoming these theoretical shortcomings - look at the Focus RS. It's just that Audi forgot about it when they stuck that wonderful big lump in the front of the S4. But give me a great engine and pretty much all is forgiven

Spooky Mulder

I think Audi's are renowned for typically being literally front engined where the engine lies in front of the front axle

Not a problem with the GTR as I understand it

GlesgaKiss

Well this definetly sounds like a car to research before even starting to look. I'll try the forums suggested above.

Without trying to sound thick here...what is that? Some kind of diagnostic equipment? How do I go about that?

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Hoppy

Yes, VAG.com is the diagnostic kit. Their cars are overloaded with sensors and monitors. I don't know if this is more so that other brands these days, it's certainly been going for longer, and it seems to be able to tell you everything. Then the whole lot is automatically uploaded to Germany and collated/analysed. Must be a wicked research tool.

S4 is a bit of a darkhorse it seems. There are very few about. It only caught my eye on rerun of Top Gear on Dave, where it beat an E46 M3 around the track If you like discreet sporting luxury, take a look. As someone said on here, every petrolhead has to have a V8 sometime, and it's the one Clarkson said was the best engine ever made (or something like that)

Comments on gearbox reliability are interesting, and kind of fit with my hunches after all the inconclusive research I did. However, I can only think it's perhaps old news now, perhaps relating to the 5-speed auto that was mentioned. I think the 6-speed Tip has been around for a good many years now. Isn't it the same box as Porsche Tips?

lestippp

If I was you i would consider the S4 as an option also.

I actually own a 2007 RS4 which is a totaly different beast altogether but I did test drive an S4 and they are very good cars, as well as having that nice V8 soundtrack

If the RS4 is within your budget buy it as it is the best car around (and that includes the V8 M3) however if you have a £10 - 12k spend then a nice S4 would tick a lot of boxes

No experience of S8 I'm affraid hence why no comment on it a bit to big for my liking to be honest but it is an Audi so should be very good.

Reffro

A stunning S8 has just come up for sale by the way. I have no connection to the seller by the way, just love the car. Wish that was for sale 3 months ago, I'd have saved myself a few quid and bagged a car in the colour I like. My S8 is almost the exactly the same spec, except I have Avus Silver and Mauve/Tan Interior, Steel not Solar roof and full leather rear bench with half/half leather/alcantara front seats.

Our 2002 Audi S8 For Sale <sigh> - A8 Parts Forum

GlesgaKiss

I will find out more about the S4 as I'd definetly consider one. I have just turned 22, and unfortunately an RS4 is a bit out of budget(). They look/sound fantastic though and I'd love one if I could afford it!

lestippp

Given your age, you're already picking good cars
You can look forward to buying something like a RS4 later

You need to go for the S4 buddy, it has more street cred than the S8 (please no offence intended to S8 owners, they are surely great cars)

At 22 the S4 is still a "mature" pick but will have the credibility factor you need at that age...... especially when you fire it up next to ra burds

No seriously though, it's a better known car and Top Gear actually threw it in the mix against the STi PPP and the Evo VIII FQ300 Look the clip up on youtube, it actually out dragged the scooby (which pissed me off as I had a STi PPP at the time ) and is a much more luxurious car than either of the others.

I think the S4 would sell quicker also as there is a good market for them and always will be..... well until oil runs out anyway The other point being if you like the S8 you will love the S4 as it is a smaller (but still a good size), faster and better looking version of the S8

Reffro

As an S8 owner, I'll take the respect I get, over any amount of street cred...

And don't get me started on the styling, A4 with a bodykit kit vs A8 limo with attitude dropped over polished 20's........ No contest in my mind.

lestippp

That's fine Reffro but as I said I am not having a go at S8 owners, please read my comments and I am entitled to my opinion

My guess is you're not 22 either

The OP is looking for advice and I've given my bit on it. I truly believe the S4 is a better pick for him and whilst you say you'll take the respect you get over street cred....... well what does that mean? You think people see you in a car the size of a house and say "respect dude".... not
When I was 22 a cars road credibility was important, it still is, not as much but still part of the purchase process
If the OP wants a S8 he will buy one anyway because the most important opinion is his

The S8 has never been highly rated by anybody so don't be so overprotective, when was the last time you heard people say M5 or S8? I've seen M5's up against Merc's, Porsches and even a RS4 but never an S8
The S8 is the equivalent of the 7 series beemer which is also "off radar" for the reason you state...... they are limo's.... nice to sit in for 20 minutes on the way to the pub

dome

Glesgakiss, PM me on here if you're looking for access to VAGCOM to check out one. A mate of mine is in Glasgow and has it on his laptop, he'd be able to check a prospective buy out for you.

RS Grant

I love the look of the Audi S8, just turning 26, I'm starting to knock on a little so fancy something a bit more grown up... have been shaving my "10k tops" list down to a reasonable level and both the S8 and E39 M5 feature on it, however, the M5 sits at the top of the list. There's a couple for sale on Passionford at the moment which I would have been interested in if I was in the market just now.

I'm guessing the S8 will take mileage as easily as the M5 will?? My old man had an E39 530i which had c170k on it when he traded it in and it still drove brilliantly well...


Cheers,
Grant

GlesgaKiss

Thanks a lot for that. I'll PM you if I'm thinking of buying.

GlesgaKiss

Starting to knock on a little at 26! Don't give up just yet.

This is TerzoAlan incase you hadn't realised. I'm still looking for a mint MY99/00 UK Turbo(there is so much sh*t to sift through to get a decent one for the right price)...this is just another option I've thought about.

Terminator X

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Twas me

TX.