Hoppy

To John Banks and others, what's the catch with a 335i?

For 05 M3 money, you can get a newer 335i, have it chipped by Procede to 380bhp, and ride away very happy

Who would you recommend for the Procede bit? Any downsides?

Looking very tempting...

Many thanks,

Richard.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I'm not a fan of the 335is looks compared to the M3 though On the plus side, 380bhp is pleasing

TX.

LG John

...or for £25-27k you can pick up a sub 40,000 mile 2005 plate M5 with 507hp out the box

john banks

There are three points I have picked up in my research about the 335i:

No LSD although it does brake individual wheels, if you don't need to oversteer everywhere I expect you won't mind
Question of whether there is an secondary oil cooler in the offside wing on some models, especially autos and non-sport models - oil temps can go high and the engine will switch to limp home in hard driving even on standard models apparently
CO2 emissions on the build dates before about Sept 2007 were just over 225g/km, now just under

Juicebox 3 is another alternative to Procede. Birds do a reflash, but it costs big money.

If you like cars hit with the ugly stick, there are 58 plate 135i loaded up to the gunwhales on spec on 12 or so miles in some Northern dealers (search on BMW). They are asking £27k. Sounds a lot, but it is about £9k off list for a new car. Not tempted on that one yet personally, although I like the thought of 6 pot brakes, factory oil cooler, lighter weight, although less aerodynamic than the 335i.

Hoppy

Thanks for your input guys. I've spent the day doing some tyre-kicking and surfing BMW tuning. Hmmm... Even more damn choices

335i doesn't look like an M3 for sure and yes SB, the prices on big Beemers and Mercs etc are very tempting, but the running costs are still massive. 135i is very appealling in theory, but I cannot bring myself. It fell out of the ugly tree, and smashed every branch, before it got beaten by the ugly stick

I think a 335i needs a lot doing and spending to match an M3 as a total package, and maybe you don't have to throw much at an M3 to get 370bhp either. Splash a bit more (a lot more ) and it's super-charged to 420bhp or more, and already equipped with a chassis that can make a decent fist of it.

M3 looks like the best route for me at the moment, but then there was a very clean, low miles 911 996 facelift C4 sitting there today. In my colour. Bu99er

Thanks John,

Richard.

john banks

If you're talking about the E90/E92 M3, I'd agree. If you're talking about the E46 M3, I'd much rather have a chipped 335i.

E46 M3 has little suspension compliance, wilting brakes, no torque, no cheap mods possible.

E92 335i looks more subtle, has good suspension compliance, lots of torque from 1300 RPM, cheap mods possible. Sets similar acceleration and lap times to the stock E46 M3.

Hoppy

Really appreciate your input John. I'm probably not going to get the chance to really test the next car I buy - sitting next to the sales guy for 20 minutes (basically checking that the thing drives straight and has the right number of gears ) is not the same as a couple of hundred miles by yourself, so there's going to be a few assumptions made based on opinions I respect.

One thing I will say is while I prefer the looks of an E46 M3 now, I think it'll date quite quickly while the E92 grows. And long term I kinda know I'll want to tune it and the 335i has more basic potential there. It seems to be attracting tuners' attention a bit like early Scoobs did.

I have a few weeks yet to sleep on it. Maybe an RS4 will drop £10k and into my lap

Thanks again bud,

Richard.

bmac800

I have been reading this thread with interest I have a test drive arranged in the new M3 Coupe on Tuesday.What are the opinions on the Electronic Damper Control - the demo car has it but I have the chance to buy a really nice looking non EDC M3 at a good price.Is it worth considering a non EDC car or would I be better off waiting for one equiped with it.I wont be doing track days or anything like that.

john banks

I've not tried EDC, but on mtorque, they seem to like it, pointing out that it allows a nice compromise and self adjusts to the road conditions. Given the main weakness I felt with the last M3 was the lack of compliance (so bad that you were backing off over bumps because your head was hitting the ceiling and you couldn't maintain a steady throttle, yet in a Ford or Skoda you could cover the same road with ease at the same speed) I think I would not consider non-EDC cars unless I'd driven it thoroughly to test.

E92 M sport suspension is actually more compliant than my wife's Golf V GTI on 18s. That car has exactly the same problem my E46 M3 had on bumpy roads. It bounces and hunts out the nearest hedge if you push harder.

P1 suspension on a GC8 Scooby just loves roads like these, I haven't driven an Evo or Scooby since that takes a road apart in quite the same way as a humble old classic on P1 suspension over the bumps. Nothing German I've been in gets close.

jeremy

Mr. Banks,

"P1 suspension on a GC8 Scooby just loves roads like these, I haven't driven an Evo or Scooby since that takes a road apart in quite the same way as a humble old classic on P1 suspension over the bumps."

Surly a blob eye spec C and quite probably even a properly fettled new gen car would keep up just fine. What do you mean "take apart a road"? Are we talking the feel of a car? J

john banks

I have to admit I've not tried a Spec C, but the blob eye STI UK whilst very good and having more grip on smooth surfaces (especially with its OEM Bridgestones) did feel more unsettled over rough stuff, as does my Bilstein suspended Evo IX or an Evo VIII MR, and certainly the non-Bilstein Evo VII and VIII.

With the right suspension and tyres I'm sure a newer car could be very good on this sort of road, maybe I also have the rose tinted glasses memory intruding as well, but the P1 as stock is the most impressive yet to me on this sort of road. The feel, the confidence, the compliance, keeping the tyres on the ground, it just felt so incredibly competent, even though it would be left behind on smoother surfaces by more stiffly suspended, over tyred late models.

jeremy

John,

I do see your point. Indeed recently evo just did a few classic vs new age tests, and on the new was gone- they felt they just could not get upto the limits of the car with any sense of what the grip level was. I believe for these sorts of reasons the 09' sti came near dead last in their ecoty test last month.

However if you have a look over here its seems litchfeld has been at work...
Driver's Republic - Super Specials 034

so maybe there's hope yet for the new? J

john banks

I read that link from the other thread and it is interesting. There are a lot of parts changed on the Type 20 at considerable expense though, why aren't the brakes, suspension and steering impressive as stock? I do like the sound of the twin scroll 400 BHP turbo though, with what seems like a very wide power band.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Great review for the Type-20.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

135i + remap + 116i badges = job done

scooby222

have to totally agree with john,on twisting bumpy broads,the sort i really enjoy, the p1 still takes a lot of beating,for me the cars thatve come close are a clio 182 trophy,dc5 integra and new rs4.
after 3 years and finally getting fed up with knocking suspension ive just fitted coilovers to my 05 sti,set up for driving not ground hugging,and its finally back to the same feel as my classics though still not quite up to p1.
as far as bms go ,for my roads, id go for deletion of the m sport suspension and non run flat tyres otherwise 1 and 3 series are far too hard,5's seem to be ok with just the run flat deletion.

P1Fanatic

You forgot the session with an extended beating with a "pretty" stick

Simon

P1Fanatic

Ditto. Nice read Shame I dont have £37k burning a hole in my pocket

Simon

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Overtaken by one yesterday & the noise of it almost blew our car off the road! Awesome beast.

TX.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

If you are sat in it, you dont have to look at it !

P1Fanatic

Sh******t really? Im gonna go get me a Fiat Multipla then and stick a V8 in it

Simon

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Know the feeling

If I had the cash around, it would be the top car on my list.

Screw paying twice as much for a BMW that cant do half what it does.

bmac800

I had a drive in the M3 coupe demonstrator yesterday and was absolutely blown away by it.In a different league to anything I have ever driven before and the sound was amazing.
Scouring the internet now looking for a low mileage used white or grey one.

sandycam

iTrader: (1)

my how the times have changed mr mac! Funny how you used to write them off before, or was it only because top gear said they were for c0ck5?
ps Heard you sold sti to someone else, thought i asked you to give me a shout if it came back up for sale and you said you would?

Hoppy

I think you're referring to the new V8 car, not the E46 shape six. Completely different car, completely different price. Smart motor though