Just bought a BMW 335i M-sport Touring!
19 January 2008, 07:56 PM
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Just bought a BMW 335i M-sport Touring!
Well, I'm back in a sporty twin turbo estate, but this time wearing a BMW badge!
Having switched from the RS6 avant to an M5 saloon, I loved the dynamics of the M5, but missed the practicality of the Avant. With several trips to the Alps planned for both boarding and biking, along with quite a few trips to Wales and Scotland training for my big DH race in the Alps in summer, the time had come to seriously look for a replacement with a big boot!
After countless 'which car' threads, on this forum and others, and no small amount of online and print research as well as some road tests, I've finally found my perfect car, a Le Mans Blue 335i M-Sport Touring with 6k on the clock.
Previously I had been looking at a 5 series touring, either M5 or 535d with remap, partly because I prefer the looks and partly because I thought I needed the extra space. I dismissed the new 3er out of hand as I wasn't hugely keen on the looks.
However, any regular readers of Evo will know that they have one on long-term test and absolutely rave about it. Then last week I came to the conclusion that there is no way I could go back to diesel, so I started looking into the 335i engine and very quickly find out what an amazing thing of wonder it is. For anybody that does not know, this is the engine that won engine of the year last year outright. It's a 3 L straight six twin turbo pushing out just over 300bhp as standard, but with a little research I quickly found out that BMW very significantly de-tune it and have scrambled the ECU code to stop people remapping it is because they don't want it eclipsing their new flagship M3 engine / model.
However, although nobody has yet cracked the encryption, there are already several piggyback modules that are producing 400+ WHP (yes, that's at the wheels!!!) seemingly perfectly reliably, on stock vehicles!!!
Anyway, I turned up this afternoon for a test drive and found that the combination of the touring shape and the M-sport styling goes a long way to improving the looks of the 3er, and the Le Mans blue with Lemon Yellow leather, whilst not being what I would probably spec from new, actually works fantastically well together.
As you would imagine for the mileage, you could basically pass it off as a new car. Not a single mark or stone chip, and the inside smells like a leather jacket shop
It felt noticeably smaller from the driver's seat, which is extremely comfortable and fits my small frame like a glove, with inflatable lumbar bolsters to grip you tight at the sides.
The steering wheel is so much better than the old one in my M5. Smaller and much much chunkier, it's amazing what a difference it makes! The driving position is basically perfect for me. It felt like stepping into a bespoke suit after the M5 (which itself seems to miraculously shrink around you the faster you go.)
For whatever reason, the automatic seems to be a must have option on this car. It's almost impossible to find a manual one and those that do choose manual will find it hits their residuals. Fortunately I specifically wanted the auto (a hangover from RSI I had means I get terrible tension across my shoulders, and changing gear all the time in traffic or on long journeys can cause me discomfort for days) but I wanted paddle-shifts, which is another reason getting the 5 series was problematic as they only recently introduced the sport automatic and very few have hit the second-hand market.
The paddle shifts are quite strange. Changing up a gear can be done by pulling either side towards you, but to change down a gear you push the paddle away from you with your thumb. However you quickly get used to it and changes are quick, with a slight blip on change down. However, it's not a full DSG, and will change up automatically if you hit the limiter, as I found (
) at 40 degrees of slip coming off a roundabout!!! That said, the engine has a 7k+ limiter so now I know it happens I can drive around it. (Funnily enough I also have a drift day booked at Oulton Park in 2 weeks, which I will now be doing in this instead, which will give me plenty of chance to get used to it.)
Now the important bit. That engine. I cannot begin to tell you how good it is. However what is even more amazing is how well a car of that size and class hides the speed. I thought my M5 was peerless at doing that....wafting along at 140 like its 80, and then leaping forward still if you prod the pedal.
However, I would honestly say the 335i is pretty much as fast. It may sound like Emperor's new Clothes syndrome, but I swear to you it is easily as fast as an E46 M3 and I genuinely believe it's pretty much on a par with my E39 M5. Apparently they have been consistently producing much more than the stated 3-6bhp on the dyno, more like 325-330, and I can well believe it. There is basically zero turbo lag, masses of torque from 1500 rpm and then it pulls in one big lump all the way to the red line every gear. I had a very willing salesman and we popped over the channel to Germany to the autobahn for a bit of the test (
), and at 145mph it was still accelerating strongly. I'm not one for exaggerating, I can't imagine what its like with the ecu modified, but there wouldn't be much overtaking you!!!
When we got back to England we took some back roads, and the car was (as you would expect from BMW) fantastically composed and extremely involving to drive, even with the dreaded run-flats. Contrary to some of the reports I have read, I didn't experience any skittering over fast sequences of bumps or rough surfaces even mid corner. As with the M5 touring, the extra weight higher at the rear of the touring shape helps to pretty much eliminate any trace of understeer and give a slightly tail-led stance, which suits me perfectly. It also has 3 levels of DRC, although it generally goes off the second I get in the car in the M5, even (especially?) in the wet.
The steering which is very direct at low speeds weights up nicely under load, but I would like the rack to be a tad quicker. A couple of times I found myself nearly running out of lock in corners that weren't exactly tight. It will be interesting to see how it handles the hairpins in the Alps.
Didn't really get chance to test the brakes repeatedly, but they felt more than adequate. Again, it will be interesting to see how they handle a loaded car in the alps. I imagine as with the M5 I will be looking for a BBK solution pretty quickly.
Rear legroom was surprisingly good, not that I care, but more importantly with the seats down I can fit my bike bag in with about 2mm to spare! It also has roof rails, and my thule bars and bike carriers from when I had the RS6 also fit, which saves me a few hundred pounds. (I also got the dealer to throw in a large roofbox for my boarding trip in March).
Most amazing of all, we managed 24mpg on the test, and I wasn't hanging around! BMW's claim of 30mpg average may not be so far fetched after all!
So, have I found my perfect car? No, that is still the M5 touring, but if you ask me have I found my perfect car for my circumstances the answer is unequivocally yes. It's half the cost of the M5 touring, yet it fills 80% of its boots, and I won't be worrying about leaving it parked on the street or depreciating like a stone.
The big question now is... how long will it stay standard?!
The *other* big question is, who wants to buy a mint FBMWSH E39 M5 with a recent engine for silly cash in the next few days before I basically give it away to the dealer?! Answers on a PM, as postcards won't get to me in time
Having switched from the RS6 avant to an M5 saloon, I loved the dynamics of the M5, but missed the practicality of the Avant. With several trips to the Alps planned for both boarding and biking, along with quite a few trips to Wales and Scotland training for my big DH race in the Alps in summer, the time had come to seriously look for a replacement with a big boot!
After countless 'which car' threads, on this forum and others, and no small amount of online and print research as well as some road tests, I've finally found my perfect car, a Le Mans Blue 335i M-Sport Touring with 6k on the clock.
Previously I had been looking at a 5 series touring, either M5 or 535d with remap, partly because I prefer the looks and partly because I thought I needed the extra space. I dismissed the new 3er out of hand as I wasn't hugely keen on the looks.
However, any regular readers of Evo will know that they have one on long-term test and absolutely rave about it. Then last week I came to the conclusion that there is no way I could go back to diesel, so I started looking into the 335i engine and very quickly find out what an amazing thing of wonder it is. For anybody that does not know, this is the engine that won engine of the year last year outright. It's a 3 L straight six twin turbo pushing out just over 300bhp as standard, but with a little research I quickly found out that BMW very significantly de-tune it and have scrambled the ECU code to stop people remapping it is because they don't want it eclipsing their new flagship M3 engine / model.
However, although nobody has yet cracked the encryption, there are already several piggyback modules that are producing 400+ WHP (yes, that's at the wheels!!!) seemingly perfectly reliably, on stock vehicles!!!
Anyway, I turned up this afternoon for a test drive and found that the combination of the touring shape and the M-sport styling goes a long way to improving the looks of the 3er, and the Le Mans blue with Lemon Yellow leather, whilst not being what I would probably spec from new, actually works fantastically well together.
As you would imagine for the mileage, you could basically pass it off as a new car. Not a single mark or stone chip, and the inside smells like a leather jacket shop
It felt noticeably smaller from the driver's seat, which is extremely comfortable and fits my small frame like a glove, with inflatable lumbar bolsters to grip you tight at the sides.
The steering wheel is so much better than the old one in my M5. Smaller and much much chunkier, it's amazing what a difference it makes! The driving position is basically perfect for me. It felt like stepping into a bespoke suit after the M5 (which itself seems to miraculously shrink around you the faster you go.)
For whatever reason, the automatic seems to be a must have option on this car. It's almost impossible to find a manual one and those that do choose manual will find it hits their residuals. Fortunately I specifically wanted the auto (a hangover from RSI I had means I get terrible tension across my shoulders, and changing gear all the time in traffic or on long journeys can cause me discomfort for days) but I wanted paddle-shifts, which is another reason getting the 5 series was problematic as they only recently introduced the sport automatic and very few have hit the second-hand market.
The paddle shifts are quite strange. Changing up a gear can be done by pulling either side towards you, but to change down a gear you push the paddle away from you with your thumb. However you quickly get used to it and changes are quick, with a slight blip on change down. However, it's not a full DSG, and will change up automatically if you hit the limiter, as I found (
) at 40 degrees of slip coming off a roundabout!!! That said, the engine has a 7k+ limiter so now I know it happens I can drive around it. (Funnily enough I also have a drift day booked at Oulton Park in 2 weeks, which I will now be doing in this instead, which will give me plenty of chance to get used to it.)Now the important bit. That engine. I cannot begin to tell you how good it is. However what is even more amazing is how well a car of that size and class hides the speed. I thought my M5 was peerless at doing that....wafting along at 140 like its 80, and then leaping forward still if you prod the pedal.
However, I would honestly say the 335i is pretty much as fast. It may sound like Emperor's new Clothes syndrome, but I swear to you it is easily as fast as an E46 M3 and I genuinely believe it's pretty much on a par with my E39 M5. Apparently they have been consistently producing much more than the stated 3-6bhp on the dyno, more like 325-330, and I can well believe it. There is basically zero turbo lag, masses of torque from 1500 rpm and then it pulls in one big lump all the way to the red line every gear. I had a very willing salesman and we popped over the channel to Germany to the autobahn for a bit of the test (
), and at 145mph it was still accelerating strongly. I'm not one for exaggerating, I can't imagine what its like with the ecu modified, but there wouldn't be much overtaking you!!!When we got back to England we took some back roads, and the car was (as you would expect from BMW) fantastically composed and extremely involving to drive, even with the dreaded run-flats. Contrary to some of the reports I have read, I didn't experience any skittering over fast sequences of bumps or rough surfaces even mid corner. As with the M5 touring, the extra weight higher at the rear of the touring shape helps to pretty much eliminate any trace of understeer and give a slightly tail-led stance, which suits me perfectly. It also has 3 levels of DRC, although it generally goes off the second I get in the car in the M5, even (especially?) in the wet.
The steering which is very direct at low speeds weights up nicely under load, but I would like the rack to be a tad quicker. A couple of times I found myself nearly running out of lock in corners that weren't exactly tight. It will be interesting to see how it handles the hairpins in the Alps.
Didn't really get chance to test the brakes repeatedly, but they felt more than adequate. Again, it will be interesting to see how they handle a loaded car in the alps. I imagine as with the M5 I will be looking for a BBK solution pretty quickly.
Rear legroom was surprisingly good, not that I care, but more importantly with the seats down I can fit my bike bag in with about 2mm to spare! It also has roof rails, and my thule bars and bike carriers from when I had the RS6 also fit, which saves me a few hundred pounds. (I also got the dealer to throw in a large roofbox for my boarding trip in March).
Most amazing of all, we managed 24mpg on the test, and I wasn't hanging around! BMW's claim of 30mpg average may not be so far fetched after all!
So, have I found my perfect car? No, that is still the M5 touring, but if you ask me have I found my perfect car for my circumstances the answer is unequivocally yes. It's half the cost of the M5 touring, yet it fills 80% of its boots, and I won't be worrying about leaving it parked on the street or depreciating like a stone.
The big question now is... how long will it stay standard?!
The *other* big question is, who wants to buy a mint FBMWSH E39 M5 with a recent engine for silly cash in the next few days before I basically give it away to the dealer?! Answers on a PM, as postcards won't get to me in time
Last edited by Edcase; 20 January 2008 at 01:10 AM.
19 January 2008, 08:22 PM
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And if you think I'm exaggerating the engine?
This is a stock 335i 0-150mph.
YouTube - BMW 335I 0-150 mph
The people running the piggback ECU are apparently seeing low 12 1/4 mile runs on crappy US fuel!
This is a stock 335i 0-150mph.
YouTube - BMW 335I 0-150 mph
The people running the piggback ECU are apparently seeing low 12 1/4 mile runs on crappy US fuel!
19 January 2008, 08:22 PM
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double post 
Did I mention the engine was good?
Did I mention the engine was good?
Last edited by Edcase; 19 January 2008 at 08:31 PM.
19 January 2008, 08:31 PM
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Looks very nice 
Whilst it has direct injection, the compression ratio is quite high and there have been some concerns over cylinder head temperatures at high boost. The figures and acceleration times are indeed very impressive and if mapped it would probably go as well as the RS6.
I think 400 WHP is overstated What we BROKE Today: 400WHP! - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com - it is a Dynojet and it has been tuned for the best possible numbers and is on the equivalent to about 103 RON race fuel.
Did you get a good APR on the finance or are you still shopping?
Whilst it has direct injection, the compression ratio is quite high and there have been some concerns over cylinder head temperatures at high boost. The figures and acceleration times are indeed very impressive and if mapped it would probably go as well as the RS6.I think 400 WHP is overstated What we BROKE Today: 400WHP! - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com - it is a Dynojet and it has been tuned for the best possible numbers and is on the equivalent to about 103 RON race fuel.
Did you get a good APR on the finance or are you still shopping?
Last edited by john banks; 19 January 2008 at 08:37 PM.
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19 January 2008, 10:11 PM
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100% agreed on the rear lights, but I actually don't mind the interior. It's a lot nicer place to be than my E39, but it's still no Audi RS4.
I wouldn't maybe go as far as to say peerless, the main issue being the limits of the gearbox, but it's definitely a very very capable and exciting car! Half tempted to drive down for the monte carlo rally next week to give it a run
I wouldn't maybe go as far as to say peerless, the main issue being the limits of the gearbox, but it's definitely a very very capable and exciting car! Half tempted to drive down for the monte carlo rally next week to give it a run
19 January 2008, 10:12 PM
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19 January 2008, 10:56 PM
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20 January 2008, 12:43 AM
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If anyone is interested in a genuine bargain and has 11 grand sitting in a bank to hand, today is your lucky day...
BMW : E39 M5 Bargain of the decade...for 4 days only!
BMW : E39 M5 Bargain of the decade...for 4 days only!
20 January 2008, 01:04 PM
#18
Top car - nice choice and very informative report. This is very likely going to be the relacement for my current car, so very interested to hear your thoughts on the car.
Can't wait till someone cracks the code or comes up with a piggyback, as like you say these should then destroy a E46 M3 and be a rival in not overake the new M3.
Can't wait till someone cracks the code or comes up with a piggyback, as like you say these should then destroy a E46 M3 and be a rival in not overake the new M3.
20 January 2008, 01:10 PM
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Rob,
been researching all morning.
Take a look at n54tech.com and e90post.com which have sub forums specifically for the tuning of these engines.
Main options seem to be juicebox or else vishnu tuning 'procede' piggyback. there are a few other options like Split Second Turbo Tuner, active autowerke 'xede' but I don't think anyone has a proper 'mapping' service yet, these are all boost clamps using BMW's curves.
The standard car is a match for an E46 M3 so as you say, with boost increased and a decat system, you would definitely be in B7 RS4 / E90 M3 territory!
been researching all morning.
Take a look at n54tech.com and e90post.com which have sub forums specifically for the tuning of these engines.
Main options seem to be juicebox or else vishnu tuning 'procede' piggyback. there are a few other options like Split Second Turbo Tuner, active autowerke 'xede' but I don't think anyone has a proper 'mapping' service yet, these are all boost clamps using BMW's curves.
The standard car is a match for an E46 M3 so as you say, with boost increased and a decat system, you would definitely be in B7 RS4 / E90 M3 territory!
20 January 2008, 01:16 PM
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BTW, what are peopl'e thoughts on the black grille:
vs standard silver grille
Note also the PH pic does a much better job of showing the actual colour.
20 January 2008, 01:46 PM
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I like the silver, but Sport models generally de-chrome?
How does it "feel" compared with the RS6 (thinking fondly in terms of that haymaker punch you get on kickdown in the RS6, instatorque gone mad, can forgive the lack of vertical body control it is so good etc)?
How does it "feel" compared with the RS6 (thinking fondly in terms of that haymaker punch you get on kickdown in the RS6, instatorque gone mad, can forgive the lack of vertical body control it is so good etc)?
20 January 2008, 02:07 PM
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) whereas the 335i kickdown is much more cultured, I think it's partly the nature of the newer g/box but partly the way they have structured the turbos in the BMW to give instant torque low-down. I think it's why it disguises the speed so well, but consequently you don't get the 'excitement' of a noticeable kick in the kidneys.
20 January 2008, 02:12 PM
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20 January 2008, 02:27 PM
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20 January 2008, 04:52 PM
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This is a car on my list for next purchase.....any idea what discount I could get on a new one. What realistic price is a 6 month old auto with a few toys (sat nav etc).
Cheers
Cheers